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Mannahnin wrote:Is it considered banning a song if the person responsible for coordinating an event chooses a different song?

What if they didn't say no because it's patriotic, but because it's a terrible song?

Here's an example of a terrible song

http://m.youtube.com/index?desktop_uri=%2F&gl=US#/watch?v=1_l8KK3gGxQ

It's ok if the kids are taught to sing praises to the dear leader Obama, but are turned away from singing songs about love of country.

TBH ladies and gentlemen, I think patriotism is the least to worry about from this crazy woman.

http://teachervoice.com/principal-reviews/Brooklyn/P-S-90-Edna-Cohen-School/10-47416/

I don't know about you, but I think I'd agree with the side that has parents with kids in her school.

There must be a ton of songs being performed about dear leader Obama if you guys are always posting the same dang video. Surely if there is such widespread propaganda going on there must be more videos on YouTube by now...

d-usa wrote:

Hordini wrote:I don't think there's anything wrong with a patriotic song now and then though. There are obviously limits, but I guess that's the difference between a reasonable and healthy sense of patriotism and ridiculously ignorant nationalism.

That is the fine line. It is one thing to be proud of your country because it is great, and it is one thing to be proud of your country because you think it is better than any other country.

Maybe having dual-citizenship influences my view on some of these things. The only time I truly have the "my country is better than yours" mindset is during the World Cup and the UEFA Cup. Soccer FTW

I agree, but as long as you understand where the line is, it's a pretty easy line to not cross. I think the problem arises not so much because the line is fine, but because there are people who don't see the line at all, on both sides.

dogma wrote:But why would you know you're free? And free from what?

Having been to a few third world countries, I've got a pretty good ideawhat I'm free from. Working with people from all over the world and hearing their stories does make me both proud and happy to be from the U.S.A.

LumenPraebeo wrote:TBH ladies and gentlemen, I think patriotism is the least to worry about from this crazy woman.

http://teachervoice.com/principal-reviews/Brooklyn/P-S-90-Edna-Cohen-School/10-47416/

I don't know about you, but I think I'd agree with the side that has parents with kids in her school.

Looks like reviews from other teachers, so I take reviews from disgruntled employees with a grain of salt.

But she doesn't seem to be well liked.

d-usa wrote:There must be a ton of songs being performed about dear leader Obama if you guys are always posting the same dang video. Surely if there is such widespread propaganda going on there must be more videos on YouTube by now...

It doesn't take much searching to find it, either. Since thisthread is about school kids banned from singing a patriotic song, I thought this video was a good counterpoint.

LumenPraebeo wrote:
Freedom is a given right, if anyone say's you have anything less than that, then he/she is wrong.

In the past I would have said "Yeah, sure." but now I would ask "Are you free to kill person X without person X trying to stop you?"

LumenPraebeo wrote:
There is no free from what, there is simply free.

No, wrong. That's what people who buy into rhetoric believe.

LumenPraebeo wrote:
After all, isn't that what many of our fathers, mothers, and many immigrants came here for? So they can simply be?

Well, they believed that, or something like that, but it doesn't mean they were right.

LumenPraebeo wrote:
It's certainly what many of these childrens parents where reminded of when they heard their children rehearsing this song.

Sure, but again, it doesn't mean it was right. We, in the US, have done an excellent job of turning "freedom" into a meaningless buzzword.

Relapse wrote:

Mannahnin wrote:Is it considered banning a song if the person responsible for coordinating an event chooses a different song?

What if they didn't say no because it's patriotic, but because it's a terrible song?

Here's an example of a terrible song
http://m.youtube.com/index?desktop_uri=%2F&gl=US#/watch?v=1_l8KK3gGxQ

It's ok if the kids are taught to sing praises to the dear leader Obama, but are turned away from singing songs about love of country.

That is terrible reasoning. A nonsequitur, really. Did anyone here in this thread saying that the Lee Greenwood song is a bad one opine that the pro-Obama song was okay? Did the same school Principal approve it, but disapprove the Greenwood song?

If the answer to both of these questions is no, then you're just dragging the thread off topic for a generic bash at lefties taken from Limbaugh re-runs. Come on. We were having a decent and respectful conversation here.

Hordini wrote:

d-usa wrote:

Hordini wrote:I don't think there's anything wrong with a patriotic song now and then though. There are obviously limits, but I guess that's the difference between a reasonable and healthy sense of patriotism and ridiculously ignorant nationalism.

That is the fine line. It is one thing to be proud of your country because it is great, and it is one thing to be proud of your country because you think it is better than any other country.

Maybe having dual-citizenship influences my view on some of these things. The only time I truly have the "my country is better than yours" mindset is during the World Cup and the UEFA Cup. Soccer FTW

I agree, but as long as you understand where the line is, it's a pretty easy line to not cross. I think the problem arises not so much because the line is fine, but because there are people who don't see the line at all, on both sides.

Very true. I used to volunteer for a fire department and the one thing we were allowed to decorate (within reason) was our helmets. So people had stuff about their hobbies, sports team, etc on it.

I ended up getting two 3x4 inch stickers for it, a US flag and a German flag. I even made sure to review the flag code to make sure I attached them the right way (followed the guidelines for hanging flags from a wall, have the US flag mounted on the flags right, no flag higher than the other). I still got grief because the German flag was on my helmet. I got two flag poles on my porch, I fly the US flag on US holidays (usually fly it by itself on those days) and I fly the German flag on German holidays (always with the US flag flying as well). I also fly both flags on days that Germany plays soccer matches .

I have found that for the most part the only people that give me grief about flying the German flag are the same people that are most likely to vacation or live in a European country while wearing their flag shorts and flag t-shirt while wearing their American Eagle ball cap.

Isn't clothing made from the flag a violation of the flag code?

That's probably your point.

I think you may be giving those people too much credit. IME people who give you crap for having a foreign flag probably wouldn't consider vacationing in Europe. Too far. Too high a risk of broadening their minds.

Mannahnin wrote:

Relapse wrote:

Mannahnin wrote:Is it considered banning a song if the person responsible for coordinating an event chooses a different song?

What if they didn't say no because it's patriotic, but because it's a terrible song?

Here's an example of a terrible song
http://m.youtube.com/index?desktop_uri=%2F&gl=US#/watch?v=1_l8KK3gGxQ

It's ok if the kids are taught to sing praises to the dear leader Obama, but are turned away from singing songs about love of country.

That is terrible reasoning. A nonsequitur, really. Did anyone here in this thread saying that the Lee Greenwood song is a bad one opine that the pro-Obama song was okay? Did the same school Principal approve it, but disapprove the Greenwood song?

If the answer to both of these questions is no, then you're just dragging the thread off topic for a generic bash at lefties taken from Limbaugh re-runs. Come on. We were having a decent and respectful conversation here.

Just shows that e need to be aware of what teachers in our school system are allowing. This principle has had other issues of a similar nature in the past.

Mannahnin wrote:Isn't clothing made from the flag against the flag code?

That's probably your point.

I got a whole discussion I can get into with people who start quoting flag code stuff to me . So I hear where you are comming from

My favorite is "anything that is even a partial representation of a flag is considered a flag according to the flag code. So you are throwing a flag into your dirty laundry or on the floor and covering it with dirty underwear."

Hordini wrote:
Perhaps a better way to put it would be that the US has a much higher level of freedom in general than many other countries...

But it still leaves the question "What is freedom?"

Hordini wrote:
I will also say that the US is not perfect and has problems of its own, and I don't think there's anything wrong with acknowledging that either.

Not at all, in fact I think its good.

dogma wrote:

Hordini wrote:
Perhaps a better way to put it would be that the US has a much higher level of freedom in general than many other countries...

But it still leaves the question "What is freedom?"

Hordini wrote:
I will also say that the US is not perfect and has problems of its own, and I don't think there's anything wrong with acknowledging that either.

Not at all, in fact I think its good.

That's a good question, I hope this gives an answer,

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Four_Freedoms

Relapse wrote:Just shows that we need to be aware of what teachers in our school system are allowing. This principle has had other issues of a similar nature in the past.

Yeah, trying to get the point of having such people teaching our young across....but it seems like everyone is focused on if the song is suitable or going too far.

But it still leaves the question "What is freedom?"

Dogma...freedom itself is a notion given name....and you can't ask people on the spot in a warhammer forum to define a notion/belief accurately. The question itself is redundant.

We've talked about freedom in depth before and multiple definitions thereof.

The song was more topical.

Relapse wrote:

dogma wrote:

Hordini wrote:
Perhaps a better way to put it would be that the US has a much higher level of freedom in general than many other countries...

But it still leaves the question "What is freedom?"

Hordini wrote:
I will also say that the US is not perfect and has problems of its own, and I don't think there's anything wrong with acknowledging that either.

Not at all, in fact I think its good.

That's a good question, I hope this gives an answer,

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Four_Freedoms

That's socialist!

LumenPraebeo wrote:
Dogma...freedom itself is a notion given name...

So are all words.

LumenPraebeo wrote:
....and you can't ask people on the spot in a warhammer forum to define a notion/belief accurately.

I've done it before, and so have others, so it can be done.

LumenPraebeo wrote:
The question itself is redundant.

In what way?

Relapse wrote:
That's a good question, I hope this gives an answer,

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Four_Freedoms

Not really, it just tells me what FDR thought about freedom, doesn't tell me much about freedom itself.

Hordini wrote:I definitely agree that there are better songs they could have chosen, better than both "God Bless the USA" and "Baby."

I believe ours for HS graduation was "we're not gonna take it"

But I can see the kids enjoying the latter ("Baby") more than the former.

d-usa wrote:

Relapse wrote:
That's a good question, I hope this gives an answer,

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Four_Freedoms

That's socialist!

Not nearly socialist enough for my tastes. This is what children should be singing.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Internationale

Arise, ye workers from your slumber,
Arise, ye prisoners of want.
For reason in revolt now thunders,
and at last ends the age of cant!
Away with all your superstitions,
Servile masses, arise, arise!
We'll change henceforth the old tradition,
And spurn the dust to win the prize!

So a website with the tagline "exposing and combating the liberal media bias" has found a story that someone has banned a patriotic song, I wonder how thoroughly they've researched and reported this story.

Are you saying they have a conservative bias?

d-usa wrote:Are you saying they have a conservative bias?

It's certainly within the realms of possibility, they could be liberals though, writing such things to discredit their rivals by making them appear ill informed and reactionary.

dæl wrote:

d-usa wrote:Are you saying they have a conservative bias?

It's certainly within the realms of possibility, they could be liberals though, writing such things to discredit their rivals by making them appear ill informed and reactionary.

That does make more sense than conservative nitpicking of stories and facts.

So a website with the tagline "exposing and combating the liberal media bias" has found a story that someone has banned a patriotic song, I wonder how thoroughly they've researched and reported this story.

As usual...thorough enough to make a good story, but as with a lot of media news, you gotta look into it to get a clearer picture. But its not about the songs being switched. Judging from past actions, this principle is extremely biased towards a multicultural community and has actively attempted and to an extent succeeded in dividing the school staff into two camps...and in any other work place, it might be bearable, but this has caused the school to receive negative ratings, and can possibly affect the young ones under the schools wing.

d-usa wrote:

dæl wrote:

d-usa wrote:Are you saying they have a conservative bias?

It's certainly within the realms of possibility, they could be liberals though, writing such things to discredit their rivals by making them appear ill informed and reactionary.

That does make more sense than conservative nitpicking of stories and facts.

If we follow that train of thought though, it could mean that all conservative media is written by liberals, and all liberal media is written by conservatives.

Judging from past actions, this principle is extremely biased towards a multicultural community

So what you're saying is,the principle wants ALL of the children at her school to feel accepted instead of just the ones you like the most?

Melissia wrote:

Judging from past actions, this principle is extremely biased towards a multicultural community

So what you're saying is,the principle wants ALL of the children at her school to feel accepted instead of just the ones you like the most?

I meant against....oops.

Also, "god bless the usa" is a boring song.

Star-Spangled Banner is far more interesting of a song with more evocative lyrics and a better tune, if you're looking for a patriotic song.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Mind you, congressional members tend to be rather boring and uninspired just in general. I mean, E pluribus unum is a far better motto than "In god we trust", yet in '56 they chose the latter to replace the former as the US government's motto.

The former signifies unity and strength (literally meaning "from many, one"), while the latter indicates passiveness without strength.

LumenPraebeo wrote:...and can possibly affect the young ones under the schools wing.

Oh noes! Things affect children?

Shock! Awe!