First off some news, game is a go but not for this Saturday. Next Saturday, the 23rd, is when this will be happening. Nid player is on board without knowing what he's in for yet
Next, I'll address posts:
UMGuy wrote:I think, as was written, you severely lack any real AT power. I counted one PF and a single model with melta bombs. That is easily avoided.
You also have to consider table size. With a 4 X 6 table, your troops will be very close together and hitting them with blast would be very easy. Also in CC you may have a lot of troops, but no PW's on the SGTs.
Also, tank shocking would be an issue for this army, and then with flamers it could be easily pushed off the table.
Try adding some russes potentially or lascannons or melta guns, something.
As I said in my original post, after edit, I seriously think people over estimate how much templates/large blasts will really hurt. Have you ever tried to wipe 100 guys off the table? 200? 300+? With half of those coming back? I think not. As far as Tank Shocking goes, with the Lord Commissar bubble, the three conscript squads will all be
LD 10 with the possibility of the blob squads also being
LD 10 and
LD 9 at least. And then what? I just get out of the way of the tank and as people have pointed out that tank will be taking tons of glancing hits from Frags next round. And if its RA 11+, then I simply ignore it and press on forward!
optimus-prime-time wrote:Foot list is fine.
You're a fool for not taking Creed or Straken.
Take either, or both.
You are taking the lord commy to keep the conscripts from fluffing?
Put a melta gun and power weapon in each squad. Enough meltas to give you death-or-glory defense to tank shock.
Good luck getting past turn 3 unless you play fantasy style movement trays
Creed would be meh in this list, and as I edited in my first post, I would love to take Straken, but there just isn't room for him in this list as is. It would mean either giving up the Lord Commissar and the
LD 10 bubble for the conscripts or more actual bodies from somewhere and that is something that I'd rather not compromise on. As far as tank shocking is concerned see my first reply in this post.
Galorian wrote:You are insane.
If I was ever facing such a list I'd put in some Triarc Stalkers and dual template your guys to death. Three of them would be throwing up 6 instant death templates each shooting phase and would be nigh-unstoppable with their AV13. With how tight packed that formation is going to be tesla Destructors are going to tear it a new one, though I think this is one of those rare cases where the doomsday arc would be a better point expenditure...
My warriors will stay nice and cozy inside their Ghost Arcs. No point in giving you a target you can actually hurt...
Do you really think you could come close to killing as much as you think you might? If someone wants to do some mathhammer and actually run some numbers for the things that will supposedly be killing 300+ Guardsmen over the course of a game I would be interested in seeing that.
ruminator wrote:With no threat to tanks at all, a mech list would just tank shock the army off the table. Take 9-10 leadership checks a turn on a 9 at best, watch 2-3 units a turn start running .... those conscripts only have Ld 5 unless in range of the LC!
The whole point of the Lord Commissar is to give those conscripts
LD 10. Yes, a pure Mech list may be able to Tank Shock a few units and maybe one or two will run, but then what? I'll either rally next turn on
LD 9/10 or failing that, use an order from the
CCS. If whatever tanks that Tank Shocked doesn't have RA 11+, they will be taking tons of glancing hits from all the angry
IG they just tried to run over. I'm honestly not that worried about Tank Shocking.
TheLionOfTheForest wrote:A dual blood claw furioso would mulch those guys.
Agreed, but wouldn't it be fun? I think so...
Big Mek Grodclog Mekgrim wrote:Man, I don't care what the other people think. I want to play a game against you with my footslogging Orks; see who is the better rush army!
But in all seriousness, you need to attach AT and PW to the squads.
I would love to play against a proper Ork Greentide list! I may try to arrange that as well. I personally would like to have the
AT that people are preaching I take, but I eschewed almost all toys for more boyz (so to speak). This isn't designed to hurt many vehicles at all, but simple to drown the enemy in more bodies than a sane, rational person could deal with.
Buttons wrote:LIST
200 Guardsmen (not in PCS), 300 Conscripts, 538 models total
Edit: Forgot send in the next wave. Might have to trim off a platoon. Still more bodies
I could fit more bodies in as you pointed out, but at the exchange of SITNW, and I really want to try out how that will work. At some point in the future I'll do a higher point, possible
APOC level, to get the 600+ bodies I'd like to field all at once.
waaghoroth7 wrote:you are insane, becuase everyone knows IG strong point is in there tanks.
I would argue that
IG are also strong in their Troop/infantry choices as well, just not necessarily this list.
HeadRipper wrote:I'd love to drop a WWP in the middle of that horde and spring some talos/wyches on them
That would be fun!
pretre wrote:I would drop some of those upgrades to get at least a meltagun for each squad. That keeps tank shockers honest.
See my earlier comments on Tank Shocking.
terranarc wrote:pretre wrote:loota boy wrote:I'd just never get out of my battlewagons. Why should I?
Glanced to death by frag grenades?
Indeed. I have felt the wrath of 40 frag grenades hitting on 6's against my rear wagon armor. It is scary.
List is very interesting. You're probably better off taking meltabombs than
PWs. It takes just 1 dreadnought to bog down the first row. Then everyone else in the back is screwed.
This. Plus, I can't take Melta Bombs on anything in the conscript squads other than attached
IC's, like the Lord Commissar. If it were to come down to it, I'd just keep a Dreadnought, or several, bogged down in conscripts in
CC. Dreads, outside of the previously mentioned Blendernaughts, don't have very many attacks. They will kill a few conscripts each turn out of one squad of 50. If it really become dire, I SITNW on the squad locked in
CC while sending a second squad of conscripts to take the place of the first.
Bloodhorror wrote:Anything that has tanks with better than Rear Armour 11 will mulch this.
Mulch? No. Tank Shock me? Maybe. Be ignored by me? Hell yes. I don't care. There isn't a great abundance of RA 11+ vehicles in this game and of the ones that are, they are mostly expensive on points. The sheer number of men I have will not be killed by most RA 11+ tanks. So what if I can't kill them, they can't kill enough of me either! Just ask Orks how they deal with most RA 14.
WAAAAGGHH-god wrote:I absolutely love the sound of this army, and would happily dedicate the 20hrs required to play the full 6 turns against it.
one thing i would say though, is that you should drop one or two of the infantry squads and put meltas in there, or swap an infantry squad for a heavy weapons team with lascannons in each platoon
It won't take
that long to play this out. See previous comments about the
AT capability, or rather the lack thereof.
DemetriDominov wrote:I have a Leman Russ that counts as an executioner. Its 300 points would destroy your entire army on its own.
I'd love to play you, and my list is a hybrid, but unless you want a dig a mass grave, you still need more AT capability, you can't even touch high toughness creatures like Tyrannids Monsterous creatures and/or Greater Daemons which once they get into CC, they will absolutely destroy you. So yes, you're about as crazy as Goge Vandire thinking that this list can do more than making Arlington Cemetery look like a backyard family grave.
However, put this 2k points on the Apoc table, and I'd see some serious sense in it, if it had armored support in the remaining 3K+ points.
Your one Executioner with 300 points buys me 60 guys. I doubt you'll kill those same 60 guys with all five of your small blast templates over the course of a game. So you go on and kill what you can with it while I proceed to ignore it and deal with everything else that my army can hurt. Again, if someone wants to run some numbers, I'd be more than happy to see them.
TheCrazyCryptek wrote:That list would be hell to fight against. I usually bring 60 Necron Warriors with Res Orb, but I think even they'd get overwhelmed. Only thing I'd change is drop a squad or two to make room for a meltagun or 2 in each squad. AT problem solved.
I wouldn't mind fighting foot Crons either.
FifteenHours wrote:I fething love it.
But you NEED to take Straken in this list. He will give almost every fething blob you have - which is a lot - counter-attack and furious charge. Just keep him in the middle to bubble wrap all the infantry/meat shields.
Sure, a Mech List may be an issue. But just take some more melta and maybe a power fist or two.
Fact is, everyone saying that they'd take "such and such" a unit against this list has the obvious benefit of foresight yet in reality most people expect the god awful cheese/unfluffy Mech guard lists. So chances are this would do well due to the sheer audacity of it. I mean sure, we have blob guard and people half-expect blob guard too, but this list is in the realms of horde list. People don't generally expect that.
With Straken (counter-attack, furious charge, a chainfist), Chenkov (send in the next wave!) and the Lord Commissar (ld10) as well as some meltabombs and power fists for AT i'd feel that would be a nightmare to kill. Even with flamers and templates the above 3 working in unison would be tough to match unless you list tailor specifically to beat it.
As mentioned before, I would love to take Straken. As is, it would mean losing some bodies. I want to see how it does without him first. I do like your other points and would suggest others to heed them when looking over this list.
terranarc wrote:DemetriDominov wrote:I have a Leman Russ that counts as an executioner. Its 300 points would destroy your entire army on its own.
You wouldn't have enough bullets to make a dent in his infantry count.
Can sarges take meltabombs? Honestly, if the list replace all power weapons with meltabombs, literally give EVERYONE that can take
MBs,
MBs, the list would become pretty scary.
If you max out on 50 men combined platoon squads, that's 5 meltabombs per mob which is pretty scary and you'd have enough wounds to zergswarm anything not a vehicle. You'd outork the orks.
This! Sgts in the Blob squads can take Melta Bombs. Wouldn't help the conscripts any, but whatever. Since at least for the first game I'm going to be facing Nids, I'm really not worried about
AT right now.
Phydox wrote:If you have the money to burn, this would be fun to play.
I actually faced an army like this with my Worldeaters, but it was a few editions ago (and codex). I showed up with my army, looking for a game, and agreed to play another guy waiting around. When we were getting ready to face off, I said to him lemme just drop my tanks and we'll go infantry vs infantry. I had brought a standard balanced list w/ a few tanks and some rhinos. We both laughed and he agreed. I think It ended up like 60 zerkers vs 500 IG.
and you know what? I lost cause I couldnt kill enough! I lost a little more then 1/3 of my army charging in. Each of my squads was killing between 7-10 guys a turn but all those conscripts just clogged everything up and slowed me down...but oh boy was Khorne happy. I had about 15 zerkers left vs about 150 guardsmen.
After that battle he backed off the extreme list and used like 3 big blocks of conscripts with a more standard list. But he always used those hoards to choke an assault.
Ive played a lot of games with my Worldeaters, but that one was actually one of my most fun games. I laughed the whole time at the thought of 60 bezerkers charging 500 guys through a storm of lasgun fire. At times Id have 2-3 guys surrounded by 30 guys and be making saves like crazy, while killing boatloads.
The models are already purchased, owned, and assembled by me. Pics will be made for the game itself. Unfortunately for me, conscripts were much better in 4th.
DemetriDominov wrote:terranarc wrote:DemetriDominov wrote:I have a Leman Russ that counts as an executioner. Its 300 points would destroy your entire army on its own.
You wouldn't have enough bullets to make a dent in his infantry count.
Can sarges take meltabombs? Honestly, if the list replace all power weapons with meltabombs, literally give EVERYONE that can take
MBs,
MBs, the list would become pretty scary.
If you max out on 50 men combined platoon squads, that's 5 meltabombs per mob which is pretty scary and you'd have enough wounds to zergswarm anything not a vehicle. You'd outork the orks.
With his current list, it has one
AT option. His lasguns wouldn't put a dent in my tank, all I'd have to do is destroy Chenkov, his commissar, and then run over and blast my way through his army with 5
str 7
ap 2 blast weaponry.... at
bs 4 (it's an upgraded tank). And that's just one of 3
LRBT in my full 1850 list. Bottom line, he needs more
AT, or else he's gonna get steamrolled by an army that has even one tank / monstrous creature he cant even hurt.
Take nine Russes for all I care. Unless someone has numbers to shove in my face, I do not think that they will be able to kill enough. Chenkov does his job in list creation. I don't need him on field, let alone alive, to be able to SITNW. He's around only because I have to take him for it and his Stubborn bubble is nice too. Good luck killing the Lord Commissar. He will always be attached to a squad and I will keep moving him backwards as the of the army moves forwards. You want to try to kill him in
CC? He will be backed up by the squads all around him. Have 15
STR 7
AP 2 small blasts for all I care. Again, unless someone has, or wants to work out numbers, it is my contention that your Executioners
cannot, will not kill enough of my men. And if they somehow do? 150 of those men will be coming back, Chenkov alive or not. You do not have enough shooting phases to kill them all. As far as
MC's, see my earlier rebuttal about Dreadnaughts. The only thing most
MC's have going for them is a few more attacks and better
WS. And most
MC's aren't T7 or greater. If it's T6 or less, Lasguns/Guardsmen can kill it.
TheLionOfTheForest wrote:Wouldn't fast troops, such as bikers or jet bikers be able to run circles around this mob and keep them at arms length while dishing out the pain?
Can they kill enough? I doubt it. Make a list and run some numbers and find out.
UMGuy wrote:motyak wrote:Oh dear god he's right...I feel a fool...and now I want chenkov even if just for lols
Haha thanks, it was one of the first things i checked when I looked at this list and I was impressed too. Almost makes conscripts with SitNW worthwhile. Almost...
But as has been stressed here, this list could be very fun. Melta in some form is almost needed. Even melta bombs on the sgts would do it.
Also be careful not to put the
LC's in the conscript squads because youll lose them in the sending in of the next wave. Put them in
PCS's in the center of the conscript and guard walls.
I would be moving the Lord Commissar out of the conscript squad he is with the turn before they would be in assault/assaulted/SITNW'd as I stated in my original post. Until it is time to do that, I see no harm in keeping him in with the conscripts.
BewareOfTom wrote:dont they all have frags? their S4 vs vehicles right?
Conscripts do not. Everything else does.
DemetriDominov wrote:Doesn't anyone else think that a Nidzilla army would smoke this?
What Nids are T7+ these days? Back in 4th, I feared the T7 Carnifex that my Lasguns couldn't hurt. Fortunately for me this is no longer 4th.
UMGuy wrote:Conscripts do not have any grenades, but infantry squads do. But still one vehicle rear av11...
And I think this list would only stand a chance against a nid list of any build. Or any list with absolutely no vehicles
I would still like to see a Mech List that would be able to kill enough. If I didn't address your comment, do not feel bad or left out. They just didn't need responding to, in my opinion, or I have already addressed the issues in your post. I do appreciate the comments and as I asked a few times, if someone wants to run some numbers, Blendernaughts aside, then I'd be glad to see them. Also, if anyone else has experience either running this kind of list or facing against it, please share your thoughts. I only say what I say because I have run this kind of list before. My only
AT was my two
CCS with Plasma Pistols and Powerfists. I could not hurt
AV 14, and could only touch
AV 11-13 with two models. Did that bother me? Not in the least.