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Lynata wrote:

Brother Thomas wrote:I've thinking about it. With technology things get smaller. So why is power armor so bulky? It seems like man would have found something more advanced by now. Anyhow gotta go, sgt is man lol

It's not that power armour itself is bulky. Look at the Angel-pattern armour employed by the Sisters of Battle. Same armour protection as the Marine variant. The Codex: Angels of Death describes the thickness of Marine armour plating as "up to an inch".

Something to keep in mind is that many suits of power armour, including those of the Space Marines and some Inquisitors, also incorporate a large array of additional subsystems that are not part of the basic design but simply useful additions crammed into it. For example, the Marine armour comes with drug dispensers and an automated medi-suite with lifesign monitor, a waste recycler, gravitic dampeners, and advanced strength augmentation, or the auto-reactive motor construct in the shoulder pauldrons. All this on top of a Marine's already impressive build, which is probably to blame the most.

For all intents and purposes the SOB battle armor differs from the Astartes armor as the SOB has 4+ armour save to the Astartes 3+... specifically you can see this in most visualizations... reason being is the the space marine is genetically engineered to handle a suit of armor that only increases his ability due to the symbiotic nature of his enhancements with the suits interface... SOB's have only had minor gene therapy and psycho conditioning mainly due to the fluffy fact that the upgrades that are given to space marines are not compatible with women...

Coincidentally though, as you have stated, with all the state of the art tech in the space marine and his armor, on the table it should probably warrant at least a 6+ FNP save... I realize this sorely disbalances the game but considering the fluff, and that the astartes are the god-children of GW, Im surprised this isnt the case.

IIRC SoB have a 3+ armour save...

Rule of cool, personified: Exterminatus-proof.

Actually, there ARE examples of less bulky powered armor.

The reason Astartes powered armor is so bulky is because of the various systems embedded within.


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purplefood wrote:IIRC SoB have a 3+ armour save...

Yes. And have always had such.


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WarlordRob117 wrote:For all intents and purposes the SOB battle armor differs from the Astartes armor as the SOB has 4+ armour save to the Astartes 3+

Wrong.

Sisters are, and have always been, 3+ saves.

Codex: Witch Hunters even specifically says that their armor provides the same level of protection as Astartes armor.

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WarlordRob117 wrote:For all intents and purposes the SOB battle armor differs from the Astartes armor as the SOB has 4+ armour save to the Astartes 3+

Wrong.

Sisters are, and have always been, 3+ saves.

Codex: Witch Hunters even specifically says that their armor provides the same level of protection as Astartes armor.

WarlordRob117 wrote:

Thats a fluff error big time... the whole reason of being able to wear power armor is to recieve a majority of the gene-seed upgrades

No, it isn't. You are just plain wrong.

Uh no Im not...

Power armor exists to protect to occupant with the gene-seed organs, and you cant operate the power armor without them, at least according to codex fluff... the suit weighs over 1500 pounds... how else would you operate it with such finesse and control unless you were a hulk of a person with God knows what of extra organs?

Im mean the black carapace
the extra heart
the eyes, the ears
the denser bones, the solid rib-cage
the better blood

SOB's shouldnt have any of those according to the fluff that the gene-seed organs are only compatible with males

Im not being a sexist, but thats what the fluff says

SM have the Black carapace to allow them to interface with their model of power armor. SoB have a different type of powered armor that offers the same protection, but not as much strength. The same armor is available to high-ranking IG officers. I remember it was also worn by Saint Sabbat in the GG series, is was golden armor similar to the SoB armor and it allowed her to take out a Baneblade singlehandedly.

Also, many, many Inquisitors wear powered armor, and even Terminator armor, without the Black Carapace. Its just not SM model armor.

Indeed, the Black Carapace just allows better interface with the power armour - it literally becomes a second skin (or thrid skin?).

Non marine power armour may still have some level of neural interface, however, it is worn more as a powered armour than an extension of the body.

As has been mentioned, SM armour also contains a number of special systems that are often lacking in other variations for "human" users, increasing their relative bulk.

WarlordRob117 wrote:Power armor exists to protect to occupant with the gene-seed organs, and you cant operate the power armor without them, at least according to codex fluff...

You can't use the more advanced extra systems that Marines have without the Black Carapace, things like auto-senses, expanded life support systems and self-repair. The basic armor and artificial muscles work just as well with a kind of body-glove inner suit that registers your movements and lets the armor amplify them. Most of the power there goes to just moving the armor anyways, even for Marines (who have a lot of extra weight over the SoB in those extra systems and so on).

The SoB don't have the Marine upgrades, they're still baseline S3 T3 humans. But their armor works just fine for what it needs to do - they carry around Heavy Bolters alone where guardsmen work those as a team. A Marine can ofc carry that HB alone in Power Armor or not...

40K really need to move to a D10 or D20 system so we can get a better range of stats

SilverMK2 wrote:40K really need to move to a D10 or D20 system so we can get a better range of stats

this times 1 million lol

Fluff Quotes for the Fluff God!

"The power armour worn by the Battle Sisters of the Orders Militant is based upon the same archaic systems as that worn by the brethren of the Adeptus Astartes. It provides the same degree of armoured protection, yet must forego the more advanced life-support systems and strength enhancing abilities used by the Space Marines, as the Sisters of Battle are not implanted with the Black Carapace that allows the Astartes to interface fully with their own armour. Despite this, the Sisters of Battle are one of the few Imperial forces outside of the Space Marines to be granted the right to wear such formidable armour, and they are trained to deadly effect to utilise its abilities to the full."
-- 3E C:WH

Spetulhu wrote:You can't use the more advanced extra systems that Marines have without the Black Carapace, things like auto-senses, expanded life support systems and self-repair.

Well, you could. Self-repair does not depend on user interfacing at all, when it concerns only the suit. The only difference in auto-senses would be that Sisters or Inquisitors would have to push a button whereas a Marine can "think" it. Expanded life support on the other hand ... it probably depends on what this means.

There are probably also other ways around these limitations, such as MIU-interfaces of the type that also allow Mechanicus Tech-Priests to swing their crane-arms around. The Sisters just don't use them - rumours say due to Vandire having dismissed the option for "aesthetical reasons".

Most of the fancy Astartes tools were probably not built into the armour because they were considered unnecessary for the Sisters' role, and thus save on production cost. Its shape may well have been influenced by Vandire's darker desires, too, even though it also incorporates aspects of the Sisters' original clothing back when they were just a small cult on San Leor.

Spetulhu wrote:A Marine can ofc carry that HB alone in Power Armor or not...

Necromunda gangers can, too. But it takes a helluva lot of strength, and I suppose they have to forego stuff like replacement parts and the larger amount of ammunition... Guard Sgt. Harker is one of the few who is able to wield his heavy bolter "like other men handle their rifle", but that guy is a beast even amongst other Catachans.

SilverMK2 wrote:40K really need to move to a D10 or D20 system so we can get a better range of stats

Wouldn't change anything in this case, fortunately.
FFG's RPG does work on a D100 scale, however, and indeed shows drastic differences between the armour designs. It's not the only deviation it took from studio texts, but since canon is pretty much non-existent in this franchise I suppose it is a valid option for people who just can't live with Sisters having gear that is just as good as Marine stuff.

WarlordRob117 wrote:[Sisters are, and have always been, 3+ saves.

What did change was their Toughness. Once they had T4.

1980's styling and bs fluff about near total stagnation in technological development. That's how you have massive power armor instead of something sleeker.

just imagine how much it would suck to fart in your power armor...

WarlordRob117 wrote:just imagine how much it would suck to fart in your power armor...

Not very much given the compartmentalised design of power armour.

WarlordRob117 wrote:just imagine how much it would suck to fart in your power armor...

If you're a Space Marine, this only means that the next ration bar will have a spicy note.

(no, I don't actually believe that the waste recycler creates bars)

the best recycling technology in the universe and space marines eat poop bars... SIGN ME UP TODAY!!!! the only thing that would make astartes army better is if they had a built in espresso maker... I actually heard chuck norris was a space marine... without his armor lol

WarlordRob117 wrote:the best recycling technology in the universe and space marines eat poop bars... SIGN ME UP TODAY!!!! the only thing that would make astartes army better is if they had a built in espresso maker... I actually heard chuck norris was a space marine... without his armor lol

Its only for extended periods of no supplies.

Marines eat normal food most of the time.

WarlordRob117 wrote:the only thing that would make astartes army better is if they had a built in espresso maker...

I believe you'd have to join the Inquisition for that...

I heard from reliable sources that Space Marines only drink blood and tears, anyways!

DeffDred wrote:

Also advancements in tech are stored in Standard Template Constructs and these have been lost and any found are often damaged or destroyed by the Inquisition as heretic tools (see Gaunt's Ghosts first novel)

The information inside STC are not advancements. They are older tech that can provide improvements. The Inquisition does not veiw STCs as heresy. It's quite the opposite.

The part of the Gaunts Ghost novel you are refering to... the Iron Men story?

That's not really an STC, it's a device from the golden age that mass produces Iron Men (Or the robots from I, Robot).

STCs do not manufacture, they explain how to manufacture. At least in it's more basic def.

STC could also mean a certain make or model. A Rhino is an STC. It follows a Standard Template of Construction. It doe not however explain how to continue to manufacture itself.

Thank you for spoilers :/

Lynata wrote:I heard from reliable sources that Space Marines only drink blood and tears, anyways!

And massive amounts of drugs to keep their bodies working. A Space Marine campaign won't be decided by the amount of food or ammo they have, it's decided by how long their medicine stores can last.

WarlordRob117 wrote:Thats a fluff error big time... the whole reason of being able to wear power armor is to recieve a majority of the gene-seed upgrades as per codex: Dark Angels, codex: Black Templars, and codex: Space Marine... FAIL!!!!

The only fluff error here is the one in your head.

Space Marines do not require power armor to have their gene-seed upgrades.

Nor do normal humans.

This has never been the case. Ever.


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SilverMK2 wrote:Non marine power armour may still have some level of neural interface, however, it is worn more as a powered armour than an extension of the body.

Actually, Mechanicus interfaces are even better than Astartes interfaces.

Melissia wrote:

WarlordRob117 wrote:Thats a fluff error big time... the whole reason of being able to wear power armor is to recieve a majority of the gene-seed upgrades as per codex: Dark Angels, codex: Black Templars, and codex: Space Marine... FAIL!!!!

The only fluff error here is the one in your head.

Space Marines do not require power armor to have their gene-seed upgrades.

Nor do normal humans.

This has never been the case. Ever.

Since when did you become a subject matter expert? All you've done is try to tell me Im wrong but you never said why or provided proof...

In the BT codex, on page 11, the black carapace is implanted to make the power armor a natural extension of his body... perhaps I should have said point instead of reason... the fact still remains, and Im sure a fair majority will agree that the armor save granted to the space marine should be the best aside from termi and artificer armor... inquisitors having power armor is a joke, certainly the same with SOB... how is it a powered corset provides more protection than necrodermis? that makes no sense whatsoever...

WarlordRob117 wrote: inquisitors having power armor is a joke, certainly the same with SOB

Why is it a joke? Why can't un-augmented Humans make use of Power Armor? In a Cain novel, Inquisitor Vail uses a skinsuit to replicate the effect of the Black Carapace, although I'm sure it's not as efficient as the implant itself.

... how is it a powered corset provides more protection than necrodermis? that makes no sense whatsoever...

Of course it does. Ceramite is strong, heat-resistant, and non-conductive. Granted, power armor is technologically inferior to necrodermis, but it provides equal protection. Why should technological level matter anyway? The Japanese and the Germans had superior tech in WWII, but they still lost.

WarlordRob117 wrote:Since when did you become a subject matter expert?

But I never actually claimed to be an expert. Only that you were and are hilariously wrong.

WarlordRob117 wrote:All you've done is try to tell me Im wrong but you never said why or provided proof...

What else can I say? Your posts go past ridiculousity and enter in to the realm of the redonkulous.

WarlordRob117 wrote:In the BT codex, on page 11, the black carapace is implanted to make the power armor a natural extension of his body

Which is not what you argued.

You argued that power armor is required to receive the implants. Which is false. Astartes are not issued power armor UNTIL they have all their implants-- the Black Carapace is the last and final implant given to an initiate before they are granted the rank of Battle Brother and allowed to don their powered armor. Your understanding, as you stated it in the post that I quoted, is backwards (both literally and metaphorically).

WarlordRob117 wrote:perhaps I should have said point instead of reason... the fact still remains, and Im sure a fair majority will agree that the armor save granted to the space marine should be the best aside from termi and artificer armor...

They would be wrong.

WarlordRob117 wrote:inquisitors having power armor is a joke

THis statement is nothing more than ignorant fan-wankery of Space Marines. Even junior Inquisitors have FAR more resources and FAR more political power than all but the most influential Astartes Chapter Masters. The idea that they cannot use this to have power armor crafted for them when they are capable of destroying planets is the height of ignorance.

WarlordRob117 wrote:certainly the same with SOB

Sisters are older than most Space Marine chapters and have always had powered armor. It is one of the key defining aspects of their lore, no matter how much you scream otherwise.

WarlordRob117 wrote:... how is it a powered corset provides more protection than necrodermis?

IT's not a power armored corset. The "corset" is merely a decorative overlay. Or perhaps you believe that the artificer armor is actually WEAKER than standard power armor because it has so much gold (a notoriously soft metal which makes for extremely poor armor) on it?

But Mel, surely artificer armour works similar to Ork tech. It may indeed be extremely inefficient with its weaker material and various ornate decorations that would catch projectiles and direct them to weak point than deflect like normal power armour, but the marines believe in it so much it's actually stronger.

Well, to better explain, my point was that artificer armor is merely gilded, not made of gold-- the gold itself is a micro-thin surface layer only, nothing more. Much like the "corset" of the Sororitas is just a decorative outer layer, added by a mentally deranged gakky GW artist commonly known as John Blanche.

Melissia wrote:Sisters are older than most Space Marine chapters and have always had powered armor. It is one of the key defining aspects of their lore, no matter how much you scream otherwise.

Most? Sisters only go back to M36. I'd say around half of existing Chapters go back beyond this.

There are different types of PA too.

There are the various marks of Astartes PA and then there are many many variaties of human PA.

Astartes PA will need the Black Carapace to properly function, but human PA is just a matter of putting it on.