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Joey wrote:

Tiger9gamer wrote:I'm guessing my new vindicators might suck now :(

Old rules -
single glancing hit. Rolls a 5, your weapon is destroyed. Seeya!
New rules -
Can take a few hits before being taken out.
So, no.

Correction, single glancing hit = Completely useless except as a metal box in general regardless of roll.

I thought I saw Rixitotal (http://www.reddit.com/r/Warhammer/comments/vj64o/im_sitting_here_with_a_new_40k_rulebook_ama/?sort=new) write that
a) penetrating damage table basically had Vehicle Destroyed - Wreck replaced with Crew Shaken (i.e. 1-2 Shaken, 3 Stunned, 4 weapon destroyed, 5 immobilised, 6 explodes) and that
b) penetrating hits do not remove hull points. <-- strike that, rixitotal read it wrong

Joey wrote:

Jayden63 wrote:

Joey wrote:

jayden63 wrote:
Through dedicated fire (not split fire) missile launcher long fangs should drop one AV12, 3 hull point vehicle per turn. Add in a cyclone missile launcher WG and its almost certain to happen.

4 missile launchers (correct me if I'm wrong) gives 2.6 hits, half of those will glance or penetrate. So that's 1.3 hull points.

Full long fangs have 5 missile launchers, cyclone WG adds 2 more. 7 shots. Hitting on 3s is = 4.62 hits. 2.32 hits either glance or pen against AV12. It will only require .64 of luck to get that third HP down.

Long Fangs base - 75 points, +5 missile launchers 50 points. I don't know what a cyclone WG is.
So you're saying that THE single most undercosted unit in the game MIGHT make its points back in 3 turns of shooting against an uncovered enemy.
Yeah I stand by my point. 125 point unit taking out a 55 point unit isn't exactly great.

Last time I checked wave serpents were typically 110 points, Hammerheads (12 side armor) 190, devilfish 90, etc.

Not every army in the game has 35 point transports. D-fish used to be mildly overpriced, now I feel that they are greatly overpriced. Its not that hard for some units to get their points back. Even a 6 man normal SM devisquad will get their points back if they choose the right targets.

Joey wrote:

Tiger9gamer wrote:I'm guessing my new vindicators might suck now :(

Old rules -
single glancing hit. Rolls a 5, your weapon is destroyed. Seeya!
New rules -
Can take a few hits before being taken out.
So, no.

So my vindicators may be able to shoot something before being taken down?

Btw, since I am too slowed to follow along, can someone explain how rhinos are going to get worse? heard a rumor someplace.

Tiger9gamer wrote:I'm guessing my new vindicators might suck now :(

Don't count them out yet. AP2 gives +1 on the table. And you just have to touch the tank with 1/8" of an inch of the template and it takes the full S10 hit. As such, I think they are going to give as much as they are going to take.

Last time I checked wave serpents were typically 110 points, Hammerheads (12 side armor) 190, devilfish 90, etc.

Hammerheads aren't Transports.

Eldar and tau are from 4th, when skimmers were overpowered so they costed more, can you give some recent examples? Necrons at least.

Rhinos are so cheap that they can't possibly get worse unless they actually start causing casualties to marines when they explode. 35 points for something which at worst offer protection from at least one squad's shooting and at best offer extra movement and significant protection against several squads of shooting is... dirt cheap.

OH MY GOD THE SKY IS FALLING!!!

For rules that are barely even known, everyone is still freaking out, huh?

Your vindicators will be fine, Tiger, as we tried to convince you in your own Chicken Little thewad.

ZebioLizard2 wrote:

Last time I checked wave serpents were typically 110 points, Hammerheads (12 side armor) 190, devilfish 90, etc.

Hammerheads aren't Transports.

Eldar and tau are from 4th, when skimmers were overpowered so they costed more, can you give some recent examples? Necrons at least.

Douche Canoe 80 points, complete with sweeping attacks and shielding.
Ghost Ark 110 points, although not as fast.
Night Scythe 110 points I've never heard about before I opened the Necron codex (which was today, I don't play them only against them) which seems ... I don't know... why does it have Aerial Assault if it's only got a single weapon?

ZebioLizard2 wrote:

Last time I checked wave serpents were typically 110 points, Hammerheads (12 side armor) 190, devilfish 90, etc.

Hammerheads aren't Transports.

Eldar and tau are from 4th, when skimmers were overpowered so they costed more, can you give some recent examples? Necrons at least.

These armies exist. I have one of them myself. But my point wasn't specifically against transports. Just that some armies are going to drop most tanks quite easily. Hell, necron warriors can rapid fire a LR to death in just one turn of shooting.

ZebioLizard2 wrote:

Last time I checked wave serpents were typically 110 points, Hammerheads (12 side armor) 190, devilfish 90, etc.

Hammerheads aren't Transports.

Eldar and tau are from 4th, when skimmers were overpowered so they costed more, can you give some recent examples? Necrons at least.

Skimmers get a save now. Would that make up for their price?

Jayden63 wrote:

ZebioLizard2 wrote:

Last time I checked wave serpents were typically 110 points, Hammerheads (12 side armor) 190, devilfish 90, etc.

Hammerheads aren't Transports.

Eldar and tau are from 4th, when skimmers were overpowered so they costed more, can you give some recent examples? Necrons at least.

These armies exist. I have one of them myself. But my point wasn't specifically against transports. Just that some armies are going to drop most tanks quite easily. Hell, necron warriors can rapid fire a LR to death in just one turn of shooting.

Hmm, we will see generally, they gave some neat things to vehicles, maybe extra armor or various things will be wanted in order to properly defend a tank better.

Night Scythe 110 points I've never heard about before I opened the Necron codex (which was today, I don't play them only against them) which seems ... I don't know... why does it have Aerial Assault if it's only got a single weapon?

Because it's a flyer.

Jayden63 wrote:
Last time I checked wave serpents were typically 110 points, Hammerheads (12 side armor) 190, devilfish 90, etc.

Not every army in the game has 35 point transports. D-fish used to be mildly overpriced, now I feel that they are greatly overpriced. Its not that hard for some units to get their points back. Even a 6 man normal SM devisquad will get their points back if they choose the right targets.

I am not responsible for 4th editions' over-priced transports. Chimeras are 55 points btw.

Jayden63 wrote:

Tiger9gamer wrote:I'm guessing my new vindicators might suck now :(

Don't count them out yet. AP2 gives +1 on the table. And you just have to touch the tank with 1/8" of an inch of the template and it takes the full S10 hit. As such, I think they are going to give as much as they are going to take.

Right but the table is essentially the old one -1. So AP2 is the same as normal shots now, AP3 and worse is like AP- now, and AP1 is the same as it is atm. So penetrating hits are pretty much the same.

ZebioLizard2 wrote:

Night Scythe 110 points I've never heard about before I opened the Necron codex (which was today, I don't play them only against them) which seems ... I don't know... why does it have Aerial Assault if it's only got a single weapon?

Because it's a flyer.

Yeah, but the special rule does nothing for it is what I mean.

nomotog wrote:

ZebioLizard2 wrote:

Last time I checked wave serpents were typically 110 points, Hammerheads (12 side armor) 190, devilfish 90, etc.

Hammerheads aren't Transports.

Eldar and tau are from 4th, when skimmers were overpowered so they costed more, can you give some recent examples? Necrons at least.

Skimmers get a save now. Would that make up for their price?

Not really, seeing as I already get that save for like 5/10 points...

Mahtamori wrote:

ZebioLizard2 wrote:

Night Scythe 110 points I've never heard about before I opened the Necron codex (which was today, I don't play them only against them) which seems ... I don't know... why does it have Aerial Assault if it's only got a single weapon?

Because it's a flyer.

Yeah, but the special rule does nothing for it is what I mean.

Consistency, I would imagine. All of the other flyers have AA, ergo the Night Scythe must also have AA.
Also, I thought fast vehicles can't fire a main weapon after moving 12" (in this current edition. Not sure about 6th)

I think it's a bit early to be doom-saying so much. Am I worried that my Mechdar won't work that well in 6th? Of course! Am I going to sell off my Wave Serpents and Fire Prisms? No! Let's wait a few days and see how things pan out.

CthuluIsSpy wrote:

Mahtamori wrote:

ZebioLizard2 wrote:

Night Scythe 110 points I've never heard about before I opened the Necron codex (which was today, I don't play them only against them) which seems ... I don't know... why does it have Aerial Assault if it's only got a single weapon?

Because it's a flyer.

Yeah, but the special rule does nothing for it is what I mean.

Consistency, I would imagine. All of the other flyers have AA, ergo the Night Scythe must also have AA.
Also, I thought fast vehicles can't fire a main weapon after moving 12" (in this current edition. Not sure about 6th)

Cruising Speed is 6-12" and it allows 1 weapon and n defensives. The Scythe has a single weapon and no defensives that I can see.

Edit: It might, just might, add Skyfire rule to the thing I guess. (Hooray for Hornets which in that case got even better compared to Vypers)

Notice the guy says he plays eldar... Maybe he didn't move from 4th because we eldar vehicles were no longer invincible...

Nope, not at all. The only reason my Eldar even have more than one skimmer tank (that I modeled to swap from a Falcon to a Wave Serpent for different games) is because my buddy gave me his for my 30th birthday. And that's for an army that's barely even 6 months old and 1,000pts so far.

I'd be careful about what you are trying to claim I am-especially when it's to claim I'm a puss.

I've played troop heavy armies since 2nd edition. In 3,000+pts of Ultras I have an old Crusader and two Rhino MK1's, my Black Legion have two Rhinos, and my Oldcrons don't have a single Monolith. If anything, my SOB are freaks be being mech-heavy, with 2 Rhinos, an Immolator, and an Exorcist.

Hell, my favorite army is my Space Wolves 13th company from the Eye of Terror codex, who don't have access to vehicles or Dreads at all!

Mahtamori wrote:

ZebioLizard2 wrote:

Last time I checked wave serpents were typically 110 points, Hammerheads (12 side armor) 190, devilfish 90, etc.

Hammerheads aren't Transports.

Eldar and tau are from 4th, when skimmers were overpowered so they costed more, can you give some recent examples? Necrons at least.

Douche Canoe 80 points, complete with sweeping attacks and shielding.
Ghost Ark 110 points, although not as fast.
Night Scythe 110 points I've never heard about before I opened the Necron codex (which was today, I don't play them only against them) which seems ... I don't know... why does it have Aerial Assault if it's only got a single weapon?

NS is 100, and the Ghost Ark is 115. Rumors also say that the GA will be getting 4 Hullpoints. I doubt we will be seeing any GA though, as the new Flyer rules seem pretty fantastic. I imagine the NS will be the Transport of choice, if the Necron player wants Transports.

MandalorynOranj wrote:I think it's a bit early to be doom-saying so much. Am I worried that my Mechdar won't work that well in 6th? Of course! Am I going to sell off my Wave Serpents and Fire Prisms? No! Let's wait a few days and see how things pan out.

I should wait at least two years before selling your stuff.

Look at 8th. The rules came out. The interwebz declared that cavalry was dead, that you had to have massive infantry units, that the only spell worth taking was purple sun, premeasuring has taken the skill out of the game etc. Two years down the line the interwebz wisdom has been pretty much proved wrong., not least because the wisdom only proved true if you believed it and played by those rules.

marielle wrote:

MandalorynOranj wrote:I think it's a bit early to be doom-saying so much. Am I worried that my Mechdar won't work that well in 6th? Of course! Am I going to sell off my Wave Serpents and Fire Prisms? No! Let's wait a few days and see how things pan out.

I should wait at least two years before selling your stuff.

Look at 8th. The rules came out. The interwebz declared that cavalry was dead, that you had to have massive infantry units, that the only spell worth taking was purple sun, premeasuring has taken the skill out of the game etc. Two years down the line the interwebz wisdom has been pretty much proved wrong., not least because the wisdom only proved true if you believed it and played by those rules.

I think I phrased that badly, I'm not planning on selling my stuff at all, just to wait before making harsh judgements . I am scouring eBay for some more foot troops though, but I'd be doing that anyway since there are sure to be plenty of people unloading armies around now.

Reading tge gw news article posted today on vehicles etc, i noticed that it said 'lucky glancing hits' reduce hull points.... maybe its only if you glance and roll a 6 or somethin??

The Hull points can sort of help vehicles as well. They can't be one-shotted by meltas now.

GalacticDefender wrote:The Hull points can sort of help vehicles as well. They can't be one-shotted by meltas now.

Don't pens ignore hull points? If so, then we will still be seeing meltavet spam all the way from Ultramar to Terra.

Correct me if I'm wrong.

We already see meltavet spam all the way from Ultramar to Terra. And I'm not sure...

Quick, lets overreact and sell all of our vehicles!

GalacticDefender wrote:The Hull points can sort of help vehicles as well. They can't be one-shotted by meltas now.

Yes they still can, being hit by a meltagun has the same chance to kill a vehicle as in 5E

Painbiro wrote:

Don't pens ignore hull points? If so, then we will still be seeing meltavet spam all the way from Ultramar to Terra.

Correct me if I'm wrong.

Pens still very much remove hull points.

If pens take hull popints then how can you be one shotted?

Because you can be blown up on a pen on a roll of a 6.