Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

The Lash was over due for a nerfing anyways. Yeah I know a lot of us loved using it in tourneys but even though I used it to win many a game it was becoming a crutch (even though we may of needed a crutch at times) and ultimately games were being won because of the lash and not because of the player. Its not a good army design when a single bit or wargear means winning the majority of your games.

See psych/rad grendaes

Deadman Walking wrote:The Lash was over due for a nerfing anyways. Yeah I know a lot of us loved using it in tourneys but even though I used it to win many a game it was becoming a crutch (even though we may of needed a crutch at times) and ultimately games were being won because of the lash and not because of the player. Its not a good army design when a single bit or wargear means winning the majority of your games.

How is Lash nerfed?

It's still uber good...

In fact, with the way wound must be alllocated, I'd argure its another "sniper" power... that is, lash the unit, move the model closer to your shooty unit, and volia, that model takes the wound first!

Also... it must be a local meta thing, but I've never really seen a Lash list in my neck of the woods...

Xenocidal Maniac wrote:

undertow wrote:

Zid wrote:All winged mcs are flying mcs.... Regardless of dex (hive tyrants mmmmmm)

CSM FAQ states that units with wings are simply Jump Infantry, making CSM DPs Jump MCs and not Flying MCs.

I suspect this is due to CSM wings only costing 20 points compared to the 60 points that Hive tyrants and Chaos Daemon DPs pay.

No, it's due to cut and paste laziness on GW's part. CSM DPs *are* FMCs, and that's clearly what they intended. The White Dwarf battle report last month has a CSM DP that is clearly a FMC and is mentioned as such repeatedly. Furthermore, the German version of the FAQ does clearly say that CSM DPs are FMCs.

I mean, come on... Is the CSM DP a Monstrous Creature? Does it fly? Then it's a FMC. Seems pretty obvious to me.

It could be argued the the German FAQ was the victim of lazy cut and paste. What do the FAQs for other languages say?

Also, it's kind of silly to use phrases like 'clearly what they intended' and 'seems pretty obvious' when the English FAQ states very clearly the CSM DPs are Jump MCs. Do you look at an armor save for a unit and say 'well, clearly what GW intended was to give that unit an invulnerable save, this must be a lazy cut and paste'?

undertow wrote:

Xenocidal Maniac wrote:

undertow wrote:

Zid wrote:All winged mcs are flying mcs.... Regardless of dex (hive tyrants mmmmmm)

CSM FAQ states that units with wings are simply Jump Infantry, making CSM DPs Jump MCs and not Flying MCs.

I suspect this is due to CSM wings only costing 20 points compared to the 60 points that Hive tyrants and Chaos Daemon DPs pay.

No, it's due to cut and paste laziness on GW's part. CSM DPs *are* FMCs, and that's clearly what they intended. The White Dwarf battle report last month has a CSM DP that is clearly a FMC and is mentioned as such repeatedly. Furthermore, the German version of the FAQ does clearly say that CSM DPs are FMCs.

I mean, come on... Is the CSM DP a Monstrous Creature? Does it fly? Then it's a FMC. Seems pretty obvious to me.

It could be argued the the German FAQ was the victim of lazy cut and paste. What do the FAQs for other languages say?

Also, it's kind of silly to use phrases like 'clearly what they intended' and 'seems pretty obvious' when the English FAQ states very clearly the CSM DPs are Jump MCs. Do you look at an armor save for a unit and say 'well, clearly what GW intended was to give that unit an invulnerable save, this must be a lazy cut and paste'?

I agree. It's all well and good to say 'oh no, they intended this instead'. But until the FAQ is FAQ'ed, saying GW's intentions were otherwise is hardly going to be an argument against an opponent that has read the FAQs.. In fact, it seems to be straight up cheating.

JBrehaut wrote:

undertow wrote:

Xenocidal Maniac wrote:

undertow wrote:

Zid wrote:All winged mcs are flying mcs.... Regardless of dex (hive tyrants mmmmmm)

CSM FAQ states that units with wings are simply Jump Infantry, making CSM DPs Jump MCs and not Flying MCs.

I suspect this is due to CSM wings only costing 20 points compared to the 60 points that Hive tyrants and Chaos Daemon DPs pay.

No, it's due to cut and paste laziness on GW's part. CSM DPs *are* FMCs, and that's clearly what they intended. The White Dwarf battle report last month has a CSM DP that is clearly a FMC and is mentioned as such repeatedly. Furthermore, the German version of the FAQ does clearly say that CSM DPs are FMCs.

I mean, come on... Is the CSM DP a Monstrous Creature? Does it fly? Then it's a FMC. Seems pretty obvious to me.

It could be argued the the German FAQ was the victim of lazy cut and paste. What do the FAQs for other languages say?

Also, it's kind of silly to use phrases like 'clearly what they intended' and 'seems pretty obvious' when the English FAQ states very clearly the CSM DPs are Jump MCs. Do you look at an armor save for a unit and say 'well, clearly what GW intended was to give that unit an invulnerable save, this must be a lazy cut and paste'?

I agree. It's all well and good to say 'oh no, they intended this instead'. But until the FAQ is FAQ'ed, saying GW's intentions were otherwise is hardly going to be an argument against an opponent that has read the FAQs.. In fact, it seems to be straight up cheating.

I really am not inclined to argue about this. Is the DP a Monstrous Creature? Yes. Does the DP fly when you give it wings? Yes. Was the CSM DP depicted in the last White Dwarf as a Flying Monstrous Creature? Yes. Furthermore, the German FAQ says specifically that a winged Demon Prince counts as a Flying Monstrous Creature. There is no ambiguity about it.

The Grey Knight Dreadknight has also been FAQ'd as a jump MC rather than a flying MC, and they have to pay 75pts for their privileges!

Seems pretty intentional to me. GW FAQ'd the ones they wanted to be Flying MC's as FMC's and the others they didn't want to be FMC's as JMC's.

Xenocidal Maniac wrote:

JBrehaut wrote:

undertow wrote:

Xenocidal Maniac wrote:

undertow wrote:

Zid wrote:All winged mcs are flying mcs.... Regardless of dex (hive tyrants mmmmmm)

CSM FAQ states that units with wings are simply Jump Infantry, making CSM DPs Jump MCs and not Flying MCs.

I suspect this is due to CSM wings only costing 20 points compared to the 60 points that Hive tyrants and Chaos Daemon DPs pay.

No, it's due to cut and paste laziness on GW's part. CSM DPs *are* FMCs, and that's clearly what they intended. The White Dwarf battle report last month has a CSM DP that is clearly a FMC and is mentioned as such repeatedly. Furthermore, the German version of the FAQ does clearly say that CSM DPs are FMCs.

I mean, come on... Is the CSM DP a Monstrous Creature? Does it fly? Then it's a FMC. Seems pretty obvious to me.

It could be argued the the German FAQ was the victim of lazy cut and paste. What do the FAQs for other languages say?

Also, it's kind of silly to use phrases like 'clearly what they intended' and 'seems pretty obvious' when the English FAQ states very clearly the CSM DPs are Jump MCs. Do you look at an armor save for a unit and say 'well, clearly what GW intended was to give that unit an invulnerable save, this must be a lazy cut and paste'?

I agree. It's all well and good to say 'oh no, they intended this instead'. But until the FAQ is FAQ'ed, saying GW's intentions were otherwise is hardly going to be an argument against an opponent that has read the FAQs.. In fact, it seems to be straight up cheating.

I really am not inclined to argue about this. Is the DP a Monstrous Creature? Yes. Does the DP fly when you give it wings? Yes. Was the CSM DP depicted in the last White Dwarf as a Flying Monstrous Creature? Yes. Furthermore, the German FAQ says specifically that a winged Demon Prince counts as a Flying Monstrous Creature. There is no ambiguity about it.

jy2 wrote:The Grey Knight Dreadknight has also been FAQ'd as a jump MC rather than a flying MC, and they have to pay 75pts for their privileges!

Seems pretty intentional to me. GW FAQ'd the ones they wanted to be Flying MC's as FMC's and the others they didn't want to be FMC's as JMC's.

With the new FAQs out, you guys want to concede that you were completely wrong and I was right? Go on. I'm waiting. "Sorry, Xenocidal, you were right the whole time".

Go on. Man up.

The point is now moot. Why? Because the new CSM codex is just around the corner and in there, wings will probably cost 60+ pts just like they do for Chaos Daemon DP's. So enjoy just 1 more month of playing CSM flying DP's, because it isn't going to last.

BTW, dreadknights are still only jump MC's.

You were wrong. Period. A simple "sorry" will suffice.

(I never ever said anything about Dreadknights, so don't drag that red herring into it)

You'll see in about a month. This FAQ was made with the new codex in mind.

I was talking about the dreadknight in my original quote, which you then brought into your statement. So naturally, I was assuming your statement was directed about my comment about the DK as well.

Please don't revive threads that are more than a month dormant.