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Mmmmh.... It was the same rumour for matt ward, but as he is still here .... well, just wait and see for other codexes to see if the name of phil kelly is still here !
I am going to the Open day on the 14 july, so I will try to ask !

Sidstyler wrote:

English Assassin wrote:Jake on Dreadfleet: worse than Trolls in the Pantry!

Ha, I saw that some time ago, thought it was a funny review. "Worst ever", damn that's harsh. I read several reviews that said pretty much the same exact thing...even the whole "drained and demoralized" part, funnily enough. "Random to the point of farce" seems to be a GW thing though...my biggest problem with WHF, and one of my worst fears about 40k 6th (which I've still yet to see if that's fully come true or not).

Ascalam wrote:It would be like GW to fire their only decent writer (codex SW notwithstanding..) and keep their terrible ones (YMMV, feel free to disagree, but lets not turn it into a Ward vs Kelly flamewar )

Depending on who you ask it's Codex: Space Wolves that's probably his better work, and the others that are terrible in comparison. Ward in my opinion is decent at writing rules (though Grey Knights, not so much...), it's mainly Ward fluff that I don't like. That and some of the naming conventions for his codices aren't too creative, infamous Blood Angels wargear coming to mind.

Ascalam wrote:I don't see him getting canned. Quitting over GW's moronic decisions, or over 'creative differences', maybe..

I could see that. If Dreadfleet was his baby he could probably be upset with GW that it turned into kind of a flop...though if the rules and gameplay are as good as I've heard it's not entirely their fault.

If we're talking tournament power SW is up there. If that's your definition of better, then cool. I've heard a lot of people ragging on SW too. My main friendly opponent is a SW player, and the codex seems moslty alright to me.

Ward fluff is godawful, unless you are into IOM fanwank. His rules tend to be semi-solid, but written at a power level above the average, so they only really balance with his other codexes. I'm also not a fan of 8th ed fantasy (finally forced me out of Fantasy) or of the infamous Armybookaemons (which followed his 40K trend of OP codex writing..). GW naming conventions are derpy to a fault, regardless of writer


Dreadfleet is a decent game. A bit quirky, but in a good way It's not intended to be played competitively, but as a good way to chill out and roll some dice. The only people i've found that get their panties in a wad over it are the 'competitive' players, as it is too random to mathhammer

Sidstyler wrote:

English Assassin wrote:Jake on Dreadfleet: worse than Trolls in the Pantry!

Ha, I saw that some time ago, thought it was a funny review. "Worst ever", damn that's harsh. I read several reviews that said pretty much the same exact thing...even the whole "drained and demoralized" part, funnily enough. "Random to the point of farce" seems to be a GW thing though...my biggest problem with WHF, and one of my worst fears about 40k 6th (which I've still yet to see if that's fully come true or not).

I hadn't really about it myself until now, but in retrospect, Dreadfleet's "roll some dice, draw some cards, somebody wins, there's a story" indeed foreshadowed the direction 6th edition would take.

Oliveraso_74 wrote:
Mmmmh.... It was the same rumour for matt ward, but as he is still here .... well, just wait and see for other codexes to see if the name of phil kelly is still here !
I am going to the Open day on the 14 july, so I will try to ask !

We'll have to have a beer
.. or 4.

If Kelly has been fired/let go, should we start a betting pool and guess which other company he'll be going to?

My money's on the huge pile of salt building in the corner. Someone has to shovel it to the next thread.

Sidstyler wrote:

SoloFalcon1138 wrote:In addition, I seriously doubt GW would take a call from a random person to confirm that someone has been fired...

Yeah, I thought that was weird, too...

You forget that Stelek thinks that people know and care who he is.

Being a minor "internet celebrity" in a niche subculture doesn't mean that the company knows you.

why is the idea that he may have simply felt it was time to move on so alien to some people?

n0t_u wrote:My money's on the huge pile of salt building in the corner. Someone has to shovel it to the next thread.

Indeed.

I think this thread should have been locked the second the GW Open Day poster was shown.

Re. The OP
1) Do we have any other kind of confirmation on this? If it has happened, it's not entirely surprising as all developers seem to have a shelf life at GW, even Rick Priestly (with the exception of Jervis Johnson and a couple of others). But, as the other developers who have moved on have proven, lets hope he can bring his undoubtable level of imagination to another company, especially one where he might be given more of a free rein. My only regret is that it isn't Matt Ward that is leaving - not so much because of his rules writing, but because he just seems to be a lap-dog to the GW sales department, and has basically been a wrecking ball for all of the background that is having to be changed to support whatever rules changes are being pushed through at the behest of the evil, Montgomery Burns types in the company.
2) The false sense of high-esteem in which some people view the 'competitive' nature of 40k I find pretty amusing. 'Fired for making an uncompetitive codex'? Hilarious.

Sidstyler wrote:

English Assassin wrote:Jake on Dreadfleet: worse than Trolls in the Pantry!

Ha, I saw that some time ago, thought it was a funny review. "Worst ever", damn that's harsh. I read several reviews that said pretty much the same exact thing...even the whole "drained and demoralized" part, funnily enough. "Random to the point of farce" seems to be a GW thing though...my biggest problem with WHF, and one of my worst fears about 40k 6th (which I've still yet to see if that's fully come true or not).

Yep I think that review, contrite as it was, summed up Dreadfleet quite well. I admire that GW had a go at making something genuinely new. The first time in, what, God knows how many years? But, the rule elements of the game were poor. It reminded me of going to see a movie that you know started out as a singular vision by a director, then got cut to pieces in the editing room by the Studio. I'm not saying that was the case with Dreadfleet, and as far as I know Kelly made the whole thing in his basement, but it would be the only explanation as to why it seemed to try and straddle several different game types and ideas together in a way that was not conducive to the whole, and ended up being a bit of a mess. An expensive mess (with a few nice models).

Sidstyler wrote:Didn't see this posted as news or in Discussions, so...if this is a duplicate or old news I apologize.

Okay, I don't typically like starting threads, but I saw this posted on um...a certain website...okay fine, get the collective groan out of the way now: http://yesthetruthhurts.com/2012/07/another-one-bites-the-dust/

Stelek posted this a while ago and it kinda made me do a double-take. I'm quoting from the site in case you don't feel like reading it there, but just to make it clear, this isn't my rumor and I'm not trying to take credit for this at all:

I guess even Phil Kelly couldn’t survive the debacle that was Beastmen, Dreadfleet, the Dark Eldar…well, the list of failures is rather impressive really.

Or he just got tired of writing for GW, I dunno.

Maybe GW is just getting rid of everyone from the old school (so, Jervis is next?) and using the new kids on the block to write Codices is yet another cost cutting measure.

Who knows.

So, any truth to this? I’ve put a call in to GW UK but all I’ve gotten are no comments. =|

Stelek seems under the impression that Phil Kelly was either fired, let go, chose to move on, whatever you want to call it. Personally I find that kind of shocking because the guy's been around forever, even though I agree with Stelek and the comments below that his work wasn't exactly the best...the Dark Eldar codex in particular really pissed me off, I know that much. The entire line gets revamped, I waste hundreds collecting the new models because they look awesome, and I buy with relative confidence because I figure GW wouldn't be stupid enough to produce a gakky codex for them after investing so much money into overhauling the entire range...OOPS, turns out the new codex sucks and the only trick we have is venom spam, and now that 6th edition has hit DE as their own army are pretty much boned, better served as a mercenary force for another army instead, and mainly only because flyers are boss now.

I'd call that a pretty big failure (as well as Dreadfleet, never played it myself but I've not heard good things about it), but I didn't think it would be big enough for him to lose his job over. Anyone know if this is true?

Is this a joke? Dark Eldar went from being LITERALLY the bottom of the barrel to being top-dog for at least a few months. Just because the way you play your army has changed in the new edition (NEWSFLASH: EVERYONE ELSES ARMY DID TOO!!!) doesn't make it a failure! If anything, its the first SUCCESSFUL release GW has had in AGES. For the first time in a long time a xenos book outsold marines (supposedly).

Also, I LIKED Dreadfleet... yeah, it shoulda been man o war, but it was fun nonetheless.

What's wrong with you people? GW charges twice the amount for a board game of what it is actually worth and then it's the rules writers fault for low sale numbers? wha?

I think it doesn't matter wether he left or not, it is only a question of time before even the last of the old guard leaves GW in order to pursue better projects. I do like the thought however of him joining Mantic, but that is wishful thinking.

Max Jet wrote:What's wrong with you people? GW charges twice the amount for a board game of what it is actually worth and then it's the rules writers fault for low sale numbers? wha?

I think it doesn't matter wether he left or not, it is only a question of time before even the last of the old guard leaves GW in order to pursue better projects. I do like the thought however of him joining Mantic, but that is wishful thinking.

I can't see Phil Kelly joining Mantic.

There was always an impression of a bit of friction between Kelly and Alessio Cavatore and Cavatore joined up with Mantic.

That said, Dreadfleet is something where I feel I got my money's worth. Non-Milton Brothers board games tend to be kinda pricey.

I don't live and breathe the hobby so It was only a few months ago I even found out who the bloke is.

This thread has confirmed my belief that "Stelek" is a prime chisler. The guy seems to think he is important because he plays too much warhammer.

Seriously.. he phoned Jervis?! Did he actually say that? Surely not?!

As if the guy would take a call from some random fat bloke about the employment of staff at GW? Isnt it even illegal to discuss such things with strangers? I recall reading a story about an ex soldier that is suing an employer for giving him a negative reference, if you cant even do that, how is it going to fly when you tell random fat guys things about your employees over the phone?!

Whilst I was initially aghast at the thought that a grown man would tell such childish lies, common sense tells me its bs, and therefore I suggest someone emails Stelek and informs him that he is neither important, interesting or cool.

He is just very fat and childlike, and he should spend more time in the gym and less time playing board games.

mattyrm wrote: I suggest someone emails Stelek and informs him that he is neither important, interesting or cool.

Why do you think he's no longer a Dakka poster and spews so much vitriol our way?

mattyrm wrote: Whilst I was initially aghast at the thought that a grown man would tell such childish lies, common sense tells me its bs, and therefore I suggest someone emails Stelek and informs him that he is neither important, interesting or cool.

He is just very fat and childlike, and he should spend more time in the gym and less time playing board games.

You really shouldn't attack someone that cannot defend themself.



Really hope the Phil Kelly rumor is just bunk--but given the payscale they were offering for a game designer in the not too distant past, I wouldn't be surprised if he didn't move on to the video game industry.

AgeOfEgos wrote:


Really hope the Phil Kelly rumor is just bunk--but given the payscale they were offering for a game designer in the not too distant past, I wouldn't be surprised if he didn't move on to the video game industry.

Quite.

In the absence of any proof to confirm or show this to be more than random internet speculation.

perhaps we'll find out more at the open day next week.

If he has gone, good luck to him in whatever he does.