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Oh the modern interpretation part...? Yep.

pretre wrote:Oh the modern interpretation part...? Yep.

To me, that sums up exactly what Sisters are about. It's a joke, really. The idea is that these ladies are wound way, way tight. If they didn't live in such a zany world, they'd just ... erm, work it out the old fashioned way. But they do live in their weird, dark times where Freud isn't even a distant memory.

I think you've been reading too much Ciaphas Cain.

Melissia wrote:I think you've been reading too much Ciaphas Cain.

It's funny you say that because Sandy Mitchell really got on my nerves talking about loose and easy sisters playing 40k poker and sleeping around. I chalk that up to Cain being an unreliable narrator. It seems to me that Sisters lead an unstinting strict life, externally and internally. These women are not "regular" people in anything but the biological sense. Psychologically, they are a perfect mirror of propaganda lines like "blessed is the mind too small for doubt." I especially hate the idea that they are susceptible to sexual deviance so the various Slaaneshi-driven stories really irk me. I think of it more like what was said of Bernini's statue of Saint Teresa: "Human sexuality or even the senses cannot have the primacy for Teresa or Bernini which they do for us." But of course, Teresa's own writing and the statue of her come off as funny to us because we're so heavily influenced by Freud.

pretre wrote:

BlaxicanX wrote:If the Sororitas ended up in the 30K galaxy they would instantly be branded as "mutated Humans", just like the Interex, and wiped out to a man, just like the Interex. And that's it.

Pre-Heresey Imperium was pretty cut and dry about how they did things back then.

How is their human strain any different from 30k strain? The 40k universe shows little to no evidence of evolution (beyond psychic powers, which SoB obviously don't have) over the course of 10,000 years.

Soo.... Citation needed.

Even if they were branded as mutants, they wouldn't have been exterminated, Ogryn and Ratlings are both abhumans which were first discovered during the great crusade.


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BlaxicanX wrote:

pretre wrote:

BlaxicanX wrote:If the Sororitas ended up in the 30K galaxy they would instantly be branded as "mutated Humans", just like the Interex, and wiped out to a man, just like the Interex. And that's it.

Pre-Heresey Imperium was pretty cut and dry about how they did things back then.

How is their human strain any different from 30k strain? The 40k universe shows little to no evidence of evolution (beyond psychic powers, which SoB obviously don't have) over the course of 10,000 years.

Soo.... Citation needed.

Doesn't have anything to do with their biology being different.

It has to do with their culture. Just like the Interex.

Culture doesn't make one mutants. Also the Interex weren't wiped out because of their culture. The only thing regarding their culture that went directly against the Imperium was allying with xenos, and even then conflicts only broke out because Erebus was a dick.

Yeah, BlaxicanX may be misunderstanding the lessons of the Great Crusade. The Interex attacked the Crusade forces due to Erebus' actions and were wiped out. They weren't wiped out because they were different.

Although their wiping out after that is undetailed, it is probably because they resisted assimilation into the Empire (due to their mistrust from earlier episodes) and not because they were different.


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Aww. Ninja'd.

pretre wrote:Nah, I think Sisters would play it a bit cooler than that.
Big E would be all "Hey ladies... Heard you think I'm the God Emperor of Man and an all-around pretty cool dude."
And the SoB would play coy and be all "Yeah, I guess. You're alright for a God Emperor. I mean, if you're into that sort of thing..."

Damn, now I totally had to imagine this with a drawing style like the comics from MrCulexus.

Manchu wrote:I especially hate the idea that they are susceptible to sexual deviance so the various Slaaneshi-driven stories really irk me.

Are there really that many of this sort?

Anyhow, although there are of course exceptions to the rule, there are more than enough nuns who manage/d to get by without intercourse in real life, so I don't agree that the general principle is supposedly unrealistic. Given that Sororitas convents are closed to outsiders and how much they value their isolation as a bulwark against corruption, the Sisters inside wouldn't even get a chance to be tempted by a man, not to mention the level of indoctrination and self-discipline which would have been instilled in them after many years of Schola training and their novitiate. Lastly, there's always flagellantism (which we know forms an important part of their routine) as an outlet/distraction - as cliche as it sounds.

Lynata wrote:

Manchu wrote:I especially hate the idea that they are susceptible to sexual deviance so the various Slaaneshi-driven stories really irk me.

Are there really that many of this sort?

The one that comes to mind is Daemonifuge -- and that's one too many, IMO. (Not even getting into Sabathiel.) -- but I should say, it's not one too many because there should be no stories about Sisters falling to Slaanesh. Just that it would have to be done a helluva lot better than that.

Lynata wrote:so I don't agree that the general principle is supposedly unrealistic

I'm having trouble with this -- do you mean to say it is my position that celibate Sisters is unrealistic? Just to clarify, I'm on the other side: in their own world (the 40k universe) their concerns completely transcend the flesh. But they are imaginary people who only exist for our prurient benefit -- and in that sense, they are a knowing wink at movies like Ken Russell's Devils and the tradition of desperate nun exploitation fantasy that film calls upon. So, like the rest of 40k, they too are a parody of parody-worthy topics relative to the real world and deadly, deadly relative to their own. That's the distinction I think Sandy Mitchell missed.

it'd be better if they said that Sisters were chem-geld (meaning that they are chemically castrated literally have no hormones that cause sexual desires), but I doubt GW is going to do that sort of thing.

Lynata wrote:now I totally had to imagine this with a drawing style like the comics from MrCulexus.

S-stupid God Emperor ... it's n-not like I wanted to worship your g-glory or anything ...

Well, maybe just those sisters were bad apples. Y'know, strayed from the norm.

That or it's just bad writing.

Melissia wrote:it'd be better if they said that Sisters were chem-geld (meaning that they are chemically castrated literally have no hormones that cause sexual desires), but I doubt GW is going to do that sort of thing.

IMO that's not giving them enough credit. They defeat temptation by faith and will alone. No fancy procedures, a la Space Marines. Those are shortcuts -- and shortcuts are for the weak of spirit!

I agree.
And that Sandy Mitchel story gets talked about a lot on Dakka for some reason but I don't know why. I've never read it but it just seems like a group of Sisters who are there to be the exception to the rule.

Don't get me wrong, I agree, but it's more about them using it to encourage their writers not to take Mitchel's ideas and run with it.

I can't even imagine co-ed hang out at the Schola much less years later when little Gerthilda and Dirk grow up to be a Seraphim and Storm Trooper.

KamikazeCanuck wrote:I agree.
And that Sandy Mitchel story gets talked about a lot on Dakka for some reason but I don't know why. I've never read it but it just seems like a group of Sisters who are there to be the exception to the rule.

One single Sister, who was wounded and forced in to retirement to teach novitiates at a schola progenium.

People talk about it a lot because they like the idea of nuns having sex.

Melissia wrote:People talk about it a lot because they like the idea of nuns having sex.

And scoff at ladies being badass warriors that are technically more badass than Space Marines.

It's something that bothers me about anime's depiction of nuns as well. They just treat them as an expy for shrine maidens, and rarely even give them THAT much consideration. Mutter mutter.

But yes. That too.

]
Culture doesn't make one mutants. Also the Interex weren't wiped out because of their culture. The only thing regarding their culture that went directly against the Imperium was allying with xenos, and even then conflicts only broke out because Erebus was a dick.

No, actually. The only reason the Interex weren't immediately wiped off the face of the Galaxy is because Horus specifically didn't want to do so.

The other Luna Wolves, Abbadon especially, were absolutely ready to take the fight to the Interex, even before Erebus' scheming started the war. And literally the only crime the Interex were guilty of at that point was allying with Xenos.

If Sororitas popped up, they'd face that same of level of animosity due to their fanatical amount of reverence for the Emperor.

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Melissia wrote:

KamikazeCanuck wrote:I agree.
And that Sandy Mitchel story gets talked about a lot on Dakka for some reason but I don't know why. I've never read it but it just seems like a group of Sisters who are there to be the exception to the rule.

One single Sister, who was wounded and forced in to retirement to teach novitiates at a schola progenium.

One? Oh, that seems pretty reasonable actually...


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Anyways, if time travelling SoBs met the Emperor the establishment of a state religon wouldn't be the top thing on The Emperor's mind. That whole Horus trying to kill him and destroy The Imperium thing would jump to the top of the list.

BlaxicanX wrote:

]
Culture doesn't make one mutants. Also the Interex weren't wiped out because of their culture. The only thing regarding their culture that went directly against the Imperium was allying with xenos, and even then conflicts only broke out because Erebus was a dick.

No, actually. The only reason the Interex weren't immediately wiped off the face of the Galaxy is because Horus specifically didn't want to do so.

The other Luna Wolves, Abbadon especially, were absolutely ready to take the fight to the Interex, even before Erebus' scheming started the war. And literally the only crime the Interex were guilty of at that point was allying with Xenos.

If Sororitas popped up, they'd face that same of level of animosity due to their fanatical amount of reverence for the Emperor.

Great, so you read the HH and now you know everything?

The worlds brought into compliance by the Word Bearers were not destroyed after it was revealed that they worshipped the emperor. (Monarchia was just an object lesson.) Why would the SOB?

Allying with Xenos is much different than holding the view that the Emperor is a god.

Manchu wrote:The one that comes to mind is Daemonifuge -- and that's one too many, IMO.

Aw, I thought that was a pretty cool graphic novel.

Manchu wrote:I'm having trouble with this -- do you mean to say it is my position that celibate Sisters is unrealistic?

No - I vaguely recall some people stating it's unrealistic for Sisters to remain celibate. I don't subscribe to this position, as there are many examples in real life that serve as proof that such a lifestyle is indeed possible, given the right amount of determination (and indoctrination).

Manchu wrote:But they are imaginary people who only exist for our prurient benefit -- and in that sense, they are a knowing wink at movies like Ken Russell's Devils and the tradition of desperate nun exploitation fantasy that film calls upon. So, like the rest of 40k, they too are a parody of parody-worthy topics relative to the real world and deadly, deadly relative to their own. That's the distinction I think Sandy Mitchell missed.

Hmm, I cannot deny this, given that 40k is generally filled with cliches and the exploitation of various themes. So far, their portrayal in the studio material has remained notably pure - but intentionally or not, it leaves a lot of room for inserting "dirty thoughts" concerning naked vigils or allegations of ritualised BDSM, as well as of course the obvious "lesbian nun", all likely consequences aside. Remarkably, all of this existed in real life convents, too. Either way, the infamous rule #34 is strong with the Sororitas, I guess partially because the official fluff presents them as paragons of purity and as such somewhat innocent, which in turn only makes it even more attractive to corrupt them.
I'm not entirely sure of the psychological reason behind this, but it's a rather consistent theme throughout a number of franchises, and in real life as well.

Melissia wrote:

KamikazeCanuck wrote:And that Sandy Mitchel story gets talked about a lot on Dakka for some reason but I don't know why. I've never read it but it just seems like a group of Sisters who are there to be the exception to the rule.

One single Sister, who was wounded and forced in to retirement to teach novitiates at a schola progenium.

In spite of the Codex material stating that:
- the lifestyle of Schola teachers is strict and puritan
- novices get made within the Order, not the Schola
- Scholas practice gender separation to preserve purity

Sandy Mitchell either didn't know or he didn't care about how the Sisters are portrayed in GW material. Either way, it ends up being a notably different presentation, which is then often pulled as "canon evidence" for it being totally okay for "Sisters to get laid". Blergh.
But what can you say, I supposed stuff like that is bound to happen in a franchise that doesn't value consistency all too highly. The downside of artistic freedom.

Lynata wrote:Either way, the infamous rule #34 is strong with the Sororitas

I'm kind of surprised there is so little of this but I guess that says more about 40k being a little known property outside of its niche audience more than anything else.

Manchu wrote:

Lynata wrote:Either way, the infamous rule #34 is strong with the Sororitas

I'm kind of surprised there is so little of this but I guess that says more about 40k being a little known property outside of its niche audience more than anything else.

Define "little".

I am really tempted to write "less than I'd like" but it might not come off as a joke since my love of the Sororitas is well known ... so let me just say a lot less than certain other franchises if deviantART's front page is any measure.

4chan has a sub-board for "traditional games" (which even has its own wiki by now). Rule #34 gets posted there fairly regularly - anything from SoB to Eldar to Daemonettes to female Commissars.

There's also a website devoted entirely to rule #34 from any and all franchises, but I would not necessarily recommend going there unless you are already corrupted by the internet. Some of those images are pretty extreme.

Wow. That site is like some 13 year old's notebook cover exploded onto the web.

I only know 1d4chan and it seems pretty tame in terms of visual art. The written stuff can be ... a bit much.

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Manchu wrote:

pretre wrote:their very existence is testament to the failure of the dream.

Or it's success ...

Either way, he'd put them under wraps.

Very true. It all comes down to the old question 'How much did the big E know about and when?'

They might show up and try to warn him only to have him look sadly at them with those eyes and say "I know. My daughters, have faith."