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I run mine as low as 15 psi if I'm using something very watery, like ink.

Normally primer and varnish around 25 to 30psi. Paints around 20psi with some as low as 15psi if I want really small details. The lower the pressure the better control you have but the easier it is to clog the airbrush.

Bacms wrote:Normally primer and varnish around 25 to 30psi. Paints around 20psi with some as low as 15psi if I want really small details. The lower the pressure the better control you have but the easier it is to clog the airbrush.

Yea, always test spray something like a piece of paper to ensure your PSI isnt' too high/low... last thing you want is to ruin a model!

Also, be really careful to always start spraying air off the model, hold the spray down, then work the lever back (on a dual action brush) to avoid any paint on the needle spattering on the model. I've ruined good paint jobs this way.

Ohhh, good advice, Thanks!

Hey Folks,
I seen this airbrush:
Iwata Eclipse HP-SBS

My question comes from the tag on the box, it says "Autographics" Does this mean I'd like to avoid it because it's for auto? Seems like such a silly question...

When I Google the brush, I didn't really see any one painting models with it.

I wouldn't avoid because of the label. I would avoid it because it is a side feed airbrush rather than that it is a fine airbrush for detail work

Oh, and we want top mounted brushes? Out of curiosity, what is the real difference?

Airbrush types break down two ways - first up you got the single or dual action (i think that came up earlier, and you want dual action really)

Secondly you get Suction (aka Syphon) feed and Gravity Feed.
there are some hybrid types with a side feed that can be both... these are okay - I used one at colelge on occasion,but its got nothing on my pair of one of each at home.

The gravity fed ones tend to run on less pressure, with thinner paints, and can achieve more detail.tend to come with finer tip options.

Syphon fed brushes, operate at much higher pressures with more viscous paint, and can usualy hold much more paint.
They are favored by t-shirt painters, and anything onto absorbant surfaces.Can have spare bottles, and often larger tips for thicker paint mixes/primers that may require it.

With a syphon feed you can get spare bottles and have many colours lined up for fast swapping, but are almost for sure sacrificing fine detail control that gravity brushes have.

Because figures are 'hard' surfaces you should be looking to spray at low pressures for the sake of maintaining spray control - high pressure will push paint around on the model :(

That being said, you could use a syphon brush on mini's happily for basecoats (it might even be a bit better for just basecoats)

So, the side feed is a hybrid that takes parts of each, but isn't as good as either just gravity or just siphon?

Pretty much

The one I tryed at college, was just a fairly cheap no branded one.
The siphon mechanism was about the same tbh no better or worse than the usual one except more fiddly to clean out at the end.

The gravity cup worked alright too, but definatly wasnt as nice to use as my H&S Evolution one I had at home.

I've got a couple of siphons and a couple of gravity feed brushes around at home now (3 years now and I still cant resist splashing out on more kit I dont need now and then!)
In all honesty with my warhammer mini's I only ever use the gravity feed H&S Evolution with 0.2mm tip. (my small tip does mean I have to avoid metallics in this brush though - you want a 0.5 or more for those really or you get odd spray patterns cus the metal flakes clog the tip in weird ways)

Yea, so if get a brush with a tip no bigger than .3mm i'm going to end up having to get another needle to run metallics anyway(though I've never really used them, but I may want the option, lol)

Why must there be so many options!! lol

You can use metallics though a 0.3. If you have problems just use the vallejo model air range which have been specifically designed for airbrushing and work well even with 0.2mm

Awesome! I shall have to try some vallejo air paints out. I usualy thin my own mixes.
When I said my 0.2mm isnt good for metallics.. I was kind of making a blanket statement hehe.
I have sprayed some Liquitex Acrylic ink that comes in Gold and Silver amongst many other solid colours through my 0.2mm.

Also, for the brush i mentioned. You said that being the side mounted hurts it. What exactly does being on the side do to it? Sorry, just a little confused after reading. Looks like it can do both gravity and siphon, but it doesn't say anything about why that diminishes the effectiveness of the cups.

side feed still relies on siphon, not on gravity... it just doesn't require as much pressure to get the suction going, so its better for small details than a normal siphon feed brush.

the best part about a gravity feed is that you can literally put a single drop of paint in, and spray a small detail. Very little wasted paint, compared to siphon feeds.

The side fed ones can do both, to a reasonable level.

You may or may not enjoy how it breaks down into parts to clean out compared to a solid piece gravity feed - as it happens the cup comes off my own brush, but only attaches onto the top.

I have seen a few side feed brushes with connections on the left and right sides to allow for being left/right handed while using it. (so the cup doesnt get in your way)

Because it would be your first brush, you wouldnt be able to see any of the issues with the dual purpose one over the single purpose ones.
And i cant say it wouldnt do the job you need. The people who would really notice the difference are using them to do fine detail freehand paintwork, even so a good workman can work with any tools, even the cheap ones can create masterpieces. What you pay for is easy cleaning and part lengevity (provided appropriate care is taken)

For a my first airbrush I think the cheap ones are good for not wasting a bunch of money on something bound to get broken.

http://www.everythingairbrush.com/acatalog/Gravity_Feed.html

Theres one on this page for £20 that looks just fine! 'AB130'

If you feel a real need to go upmarket, look for a store that sells the parts, the site I linked does sell parts for all the airbrushes that they sell. (its UK based, and hence I use these guys for my o-rings and nozzles etc)

http://www.everythingairbrush.com/acatalog/info_HS_126003.html

Thats the brush I use right now, and I love how simple the nozzle assembley breaks down into bits.

http://www.everythingairbrush.com/acatalog/info_Evolution.html
thats the break down diagram (from the same shop website) that shows how it builds and the parts numbers for when bits break.

Its things like this which will be useful in the future when soemthign goes wrong and you want to fix it easily
100% for sure you will need to get new needles and nozles and probably o-rings too at some point along the line. Its good if you know you can get the ones you need for the brush you buy.

I use the side fed in both my Eclipse and my Micron. The ability to paint upside down, or more commonly vertically, comes in handy more than you'd think. You can still paint with just a drop a la gravity fed. The only drawback is you have to clean the side-feed cup, and it is actually several pieces.

I ended up buying it. It was $75 and it came with a very nice Nylon hose, the siphon(really seems like it should be syphon) cup, and a gravity feed cup. Looks like parts for it should be extremely easy to find if it comes to it, and it came with a nice little guide on cleaning it, and how to tear it apart.

Even if being side feed makes it not 100% efficient on paint, cleaning sucks, and any other issues, I'm hoping that I at least get the $75 out of it.(Hoping the time it saves me in base coating alone pays for itself, lol)

Like I said, $75 was just to tempting to walk away from, brand new in box never used.

I think you'll love the Eclipse. I use it for well over half of my painting. Just make sure to keep that cup cleaned!

For that price yes for sure you shouldve got the Iwata Eclipse... any model of eclipse would be a steal for 75 bucks!!

Parts for iwata should be easily available from literally butt loads of suppliers as they are a big name in airbrush manufacture. (the biggest name?)

For me it was H&S because theyre european and theres a uk stockist with a full range of the parts (where i got the brush from as it were)

In USA Badger is american so pricing might be good for you on those. Iwata is Japanese i beleive, and although I have never touched one i cant doubt the quality... all of the internet are not lieing! lol!

lol, they might be lieing! My wife really liked it, so that's the real reason we ended up with it. I did like that it came with the siphon and the Gravity feed cups though.

Gonna need to pick up some acrylic thinner now!

for thinning I like to use Liquitex Airbrush Medium and some water/flow aid if needed (usualy not necessary)... i keep meaning to try things like rubbing alcohol and the classic glass cleaner

I really like the Vallejo Thinner Medium

I read something that had said to always use thinner instead of water/rubbing alcohol//etc because it helps bond better.

Basically magic.

Thats probably something todo with maintaining the paints surface tension, too much water breaks down the polymer chain of molecules that is the acrylic binder (medium).
By using another, thinner, more fluid acrlyic binder medium as your thinning agent you maintain a high concentration of binder in the paint itself.
While water does indeed thin acrylics, for the viscosity required for pleasurable spraying, water alone tends to break down the surface tension of the paint too much (also prolongs the dry time and reduces adhesion)
The idea of using alcohol or any other solvent rather than a medium is that they have an even lower viscosity than water and the acrylic (basically plastic) can dissolve in it fully rather than being tiny blobs suspended in water, the same way oil and water do not truely mix the paint and the water doesnt either (its not quite as extreme as the oil/water mind you).

I see what you mean. That train of thought makes sense. Thanks for an explanation! I do remember reading about the polymer chains now that you mentioned it.

Also bear in mind when looking at thinners... the seals and o-rings inside the airbrush.
Guaranteed to wear out and become useless eventually... but using strong thinners (acetone, strong alcohol etc) will cause them to dry out and go brittle sooner. Some brushes have seals more resistant to strong solvents (usualy the airbrushes targeted at automotive painters on account of the paint they want to use)

hehe dont be scared of using thinner tho, it wont be instantly breakign things, and is often necessary for a thorough cleaning. But just be aware of what it does to the insides of the brush .. maybe avoid prolongued soaks.

Another note is that vinegar (found in may house hold window cleaners) corrodes chrome (the material all good airbrushes are plated in) so when people sugets glass cleaner to thin / clean they actually ,mean automotive glass cleaners that do not contain vinegar (this way to protect chrome trim on vehicles as opposed to pvc window frames on a house)

HairySticks wrote:
Also bear in mind when looking at thinners... the seals and o-rings inside the airbrush.
Guaranteed to wear out and become useless eventually... but using strong thinners (acetone, strong alcohol etc) will cause them to dry out and go brittle sooner. Some brushes have seals more resistant to strong solvents (usualy the airbrushes targeted at automotive painters on account of the paint they want to use)

Now when you say "strong thinners ( acetone, strong alcohol etc ), will cause them to dry out and go brittle sooner", is that not qualified with the amount of thinner used - that is to say the more thinner used with a given amount of paint, the greater effect?

I'm curious, as I have both industrial acetone and denatured alcohol for other projects, and it would only make sense to use them.

Now I have heard that after cleaning the airbrush, a thin film of petroleum jelly on the o-rings ( coat, let sit for a bit and then wipe them off with a clean rag ), will help make last longer, is this true?

Oh don't get me wrong, they are brilliant for cleaning an airbrush, making childs play of removing dried up paint (I use acetone myself)

But all of the rubber seals and o-rings inside an airbrush will suffer a drying effect from persistant exposure to solvents, as you said a small amount of petroleum jelly would counter this somewhat. But they will still go (they would eventually wear out just from usage anyway) and replacements are available for any brush worth its salt.

One thing to mention would be the needle guide seal, for my Harder and Steenbeck brush I required a special tool from H&S to actually fit the seal; the tool is a screw driver with a little prong in the middle that holds the seal in place as you tighten the screw up, not using this tool makes it near impossible and I suspect other brands have their own version of this?

I've had the brush for over 2 years now and only replaced the needle once, the needle guide seal once and the nozzle once. all the other o-rings and seals are still the original ones, and i cleant he brush out with pure acetone after each use. But NEVER actualy submerge the entire brush in acetone, use a small an amount as is actually possible to get the cleaning done. and use compressed air to blow out the residue straight away rather than allowing it to sit eating away at the rubber.

I usualy rinse paint out with water as well as possible before going to acetone just to reduce the overall amount needed for a cleaning. a lot of parts can be done with a rag or a cotton bud soaked in the cleaner.