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On their face, I'd say the strongest named duelists are the Swarmlord, Lysander (4 freakin wounds!), and Drazhar.

Without a doubt the strongest DIY character is the Necron Overlord.

Overlord: Warscythe, Sempiternal Weave, MSS, Phase Shifter, Tessuract Labyrinth

This guy is T5, 2+/3++, MSS awesomeness, and can suck even the most powerful enemies into oblivion regardless of eternal warrior or ridiculous saves and such with the labyrinth. In a challenge there is nothing consistent enough to take such an enemy hands down.

captain collius wrote:

ZakFaire wrote:

Happygrunt wrote:

ZakFaire wrote:Actually reading a little in the 4th edition Eldar, by technical wording of Mirrorblades, Howling Banshee Exarch may win the day;

"Mirrorswords ignore armor saves."

All saves? Even invulnerable? Hmm....could be argued that way!

But, mediocre stats, 1 wound, 3+ save. Would have to win the first round with her 5 Attacks or she'll lose.

A thought anyways!

No, actually, it CAN'T be argued that way, seeing as invul saves are NOT armor saves.

You are likely correct, Sir, I'm just curious because of similar wording with the Necron Warscythe, which could previously penetrate Invulnerable save. Looks like it's different in this edition.

Was a thought anyways. At least my Banshee Exarch can still force those Terminators to use their 5+!

Actually no Mirrorswordsare an unsual power weapon and so is AP 3. Warscythes are + 2 S AP1 armourbane ... Shudder.
as to the best duelist Drazhar anyone.

Mirrorswords are not power weapons. No where in their description is the word "power." They do ignore armor saves. Therefore they are ap - weapons that ignore armor saves.

Lysander or overlord w/MSS, weave, phase shifter, warscythe.

Green is Best! wrote:Lucius the Eternal.

His armor reduces you to 1 attack. Thats it. One swing. Make it count.

His armor does nothing to other people's attacks.

His lash reduces attacks BY 1. Not TO 1.

How about wraithlord with a sword? Seems pretty good.

Actually no Mirrorswordsare an unsual power weapon and so is AP 3. Warscythes are + 2 S AP1 armourbane ... Shudder.
as to the best duelist Drazhar anyone.

Actually I don't think they are power weapons, unusual or otherwise. It does not state in their entry that they are power weapons, so the newest edition rules for power weapons do not apply.

However, it does state, simply, that they ignore armor saves. Just like the Necron entry for War Scythes: "Armor saves are not permitted against wounds caused by warscythes.", the Mirror Blades entry states "Mirror swords ignore armor saves." No old-rules "Power Weapon", just ignored.

May I ask where you got the rules that they, and Mirror Swords, are power weapons?

How about wraithlord with a sword? Seems pretty good.

Unfortunately, low Initiative, mediocre skill, and only 3+ Save, invulnerable or otherwise, I think they'd be slaughtered PDQ. Also, don't think they can Challange, but I could be wrong!

jbunny wrote:Lets look at what you need in an ideal world for a great Duelist.

1. High Int - Allows you to strike first and therefor a better chance to kill before being attacked.
2. An AP2 weapon or one that ignores armour saves.
3. Multi wounds, and prefer Eternal Warrior
4. 2+ save to stop Power Weapons, and at least a 4+ Inv

You can't get all of this, but you can get most.

My vote is Tycho. Good Int, attacks ignore armour saves, has 2+, 4++, and you can give him FNP, so the only thing you have to worry about is Fist and Hammers, and you will strike before them.

Second choice is Furious Dread with Blood Fist. AV13 means Hammers and Fist needs a 5 to glance if they are still around.

Marneus Calgar.

I would say Eldrad... Reroll Invulsaves reroll hits and reroll wound? Always wounds on 2+, cast 2 powers a turn and and and ignores armor saves and can make you reroll your saves ahahaa... Eldrad the beat stick....

Drazhar. T4, EW, I7, and at least four attacks. With S6 AP2.

That or a Necron Overlord, as previously discussed. If Leliths attacks were rending instead of simply ignoring armor saves she could be better than Drazhar, since theonly thing from any codec that would hit before she does would be either some hammer of wrath attack, or the Slaanesh greater daemon. And lelith has a better invuln save.

Thatguyoverthere wrote:The Brood Lord has St 5 T5 I6 and four rending attacks for only 60pts. It also has the chance of getting crazy good powers with Biomancy.. A good roll with Iron arms turns them into T8 S8 monsters.

Funny thing while I was working on point effiencies, the Broodlord is crap (I know herasy). Tyranid Prime is way better.

Even though he maxxes out at just 98 points, he has one major short shortfall. He only has rending.

Broodlord + ST + AG + TS weighing in at 68 points will do 1.922 kills to a Tac marine. That makes him 0.0283 kills per point.

Tyranid Prime + LW/BS + ST + AG + TS weighing in at 115 points will do 3.807 kills to a Tac marine. That makes him 0.0331 kills per point.

To put this in perspective; A brood of nine naked Rippers weighing in at 90 points will do 2.45 kills to a Tac marine. That makes him 0.0272 kills per point.

The Tyranid Prime is making you go at I1, and is swinging with a poisoned force weapon. He is a Hive Tyrant's Mini Me!

Eldrad has rerollable 3++ saves. What you got?

Nologik wrote:Eldrad has rerollable 3++ saves. What you got?

Swarmlord... I'm sorry, you're not re-rolling that save, you're taking it like normal.

McNinja wrote:Drazhar. T4, EW, I7, and at least four attacks. With S6 AP2.

That or a Necron Overlord, as previously discussed. If Leliths attacks were rending instead of simply ignoring armor saves she could be better than Drazhar, since theonly thing from any codec that would hit before she does would be either some hammer of wrath attack, or the Slaanesh greater daemon. And lelith has a better invuln save.

Wait, why would Lelith be better if she was rending instead of ignoring all armor saves all the time? T7+ and Dreads I guess?

That would still make her worse against T4 and lower...

Exergy wrote:

ZakFaire wrote:Hey all,

Trying to track down the best, most cost effective Duelist, but I only have experience with Eldar/DE/SW. The best I can come up with is;

Archon
---Husk Blade
---Shadowfield
---Combat Drugs

For a total of 125 pts nets you 4(possibly 5 w/ drugs) base attacks with a "force" weapon at initiative 7, WS 7, and a 2+ Invulnerable Save. Only problem I see is death via. Psychics, but this is about dueling!

Thanks!

huskblades dont ignore 2+ saves, as of FAQ vs 1.0, so archons are garbage as over half of the characters in this game have 2+ saves.

Well at least they can go infantry-hunting...

I'm amazed that this has even gone on as long as it has. The answer is the Necron Overlord.
(kitted out with Warscythe, MSS, Tesseract Labyrinth, Rez Orb, Sempiternal Weave & Phase Shifter)

NOTHING stands up to this guy, mathematically.

The shenanigans:
- MSS will work against Ld 10 exactly 50% of the time, meaning the Overlord insta-wins the duel half the time.
- Tesseract Labrynth has a 50% chance to not insta-kill a 3-wound model

The actual stats:
- 2+/3++ save
- 4+ EL
- Warscythe swings ahead of anything that can ignore a 2+ armour save, and ignores all armour saves itself.
- Str 7
- T5
- 3 wounds
- 3 attacks base

Between the MSS & Tesseract Labyrinth, all other 3-wound models with Ld 10 have only a 25% chance to not instantly lose the duel.
After that, you have to deal with Str 7, ignores all armour, and swings first against anything unwieldly.
If you do get to attack, you have to deal with T5, 2+/3++, 3 wounds.
If you somehow manage to down him, he's got a 50% chance to standing right back up.

Bonus Unfairness:
He can also ride on a Catacomb Command Barge during the duel.

ShadarLogoth wrote:

McNinja wrote:Drazhar. T4, EW, I7, and at least four attacks. With S6 AP2.

That or a Necron Overlord, as previously discussed. If Leliths attacks were rending instead of simply ignoring armor saves she could be better than Drazhar, since theonly thing from any codec that would hit before she does would be either some hammer of wrath attack, or the Slaanesh greater daemon. And lelith has a better invuln save.

Wait, why would Lelith be better if she was rending instead of ignoring all armor saves all the time? T7+ and Dreads I guess?

That would still make her worse against T4 and lower...

True. She was never a really good character against anything other than GEQ because of their low T.

No one has brought up Melph. yet. Had him with biomancy the other day.
Bare bones He's one of the nastiest out there.

WS 7 Str 6 T6 I7 W5 transfixing gaze a Force sword


ad Iron arm and endurance he's a monster

WS 7 Str 9 T9 I7 W5 feel no pain ,it will not die,eternal warrior

azazel the cat wrote:I'm amazed that this has even gone on as long as it has. The answer is the Necron Overlord.
(kitted out with Warscythe, MSS, Tesseract Labyrinth, Rez Orb, Sempiternal Weave & Phase Shifter)

NOTHING stands up to this guy, mathematically.

The shenanigans:
- MSS will work against Ld 10 exactly 50% of the time, meaning the Overlord insta-wins the duel half the time.
- Tesseract Labrynth has a 50% chance to not insta-kill a 3-wound model

The actual stats:
- 2+/3++ save
- 4+ EL
- Warscythe swings ahead of anything that can ignore a 2+ armour save, and ignores all armour saves itself.
- Str 7
- T5
- 3 wounds
- 3 attacks base

Between the MSS & Tesseract Labyrinth, all other 3-wound models with Ld 10 have only a 25% chance to not instantly lose the duel.
After that, you have to deal with Str 7, ignores all armour, and swings first against anything unwieldly.
If you do get to attack, you have to deal with T5, 2+/3++, 3 wounds.
If you somehow manage to down him, he's got a 50% chance to standing right back up.

Bonus Unfairness:
He can also ride on a Catacomb Command Barge during the duel.

Old Zogwort has 50% of turning you into a squig from 18" away. Nothing is going to save you.

Paladin with Warding Stave. They have ap2? Well I have a 2++ HAHA!

DaddyWarcrimes wrote:GK Brotherhood Champion.

You guys are going back and forth, but the answer was in the eighth post. This guy wins when he wins and he wins when he loses. Either way it's a win-win for the 100pt Brother Champion.

DarthDiggler wrote:

DaddyWarcrimes wrote:GK Brotherhood Champion.

You guys are going back and forth, but the answer was in the eighth post. This guy wins when he wins and he wins when he loses. Either way it's a win-win for the 100pt Brother Champion.

Actually he wins when he loses rather less than 2/3 of the time (and around 1/3 of the time if being forced to take his test on 3d6 or if a wolf priest 'hoods' it). He needs both to pass a psychic test to get his power off and roll to hit (which will normally be 3+).

But I agree, especially with brain mines, he does very well against most foes. He can't stop a necron overlord getting back up though, so I think the Necron Overlord with midshackle scarabs and a warscythe is probably the best.

Eldrad is still the beatstick. always would on 2+ and rerolled saves.. Still the best beatstick, may take a few turns to kill you, but you are going down!

Would Eldrad with Presience and Misfortune and the other div power that lets you re-roll your saves beat an Overlord with a Warscythe and MSS? I don't have the Cron dex so I can't do the math for the comparison right now.

Im going for lucius the eternal WS 7 In6 4 attacks(with extra CCW) his lash makes the enemy lose an attack and any armour or invunerable made by him lead to an str4 hit on the enemy that ignores armour saves


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Or a chaos lord markof slaneesh terminator armourand a daemon wepon WS6 Int6 2+ save 5+ invul 3attacks that inflict instant death if they land plus D6 addtional attacks that all have the insta death rule. Can you use reanimation protocols against Instant death