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AegisGrimm wrote:Bigotry and intolerance are simply a result of individuals' fear and lack of understanding, coupled with human tendency towards herd mentality. Nothing more.

Even simpler, they are actions made towards innocent people/groups by either ignorance, or a feeling to not stand out.

If it was truly justified (which it almost never is), it wouldn't be bigotry at all.

Of course the CHinese gent who refused to move from in front of the lie of tanks was pretty intolerant. Gandhi was an intolerant SOB as well towards oppressors. Churchill was pretty damned intolerant of those nazi dudes. I guess they were both bigots too.

I like this game. No matter who wins, we lose.


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Jihadin wrote:Well...I haven't been label a bigot...a murderer yes but not a bigot

You'll always be that lovable killing machine in our eyes Jihadin!

Miriam Webster. com wrote:one who regards or treats the members of a group (as a racial or ethnic group) with hatred and intolerance

Miriam Webster. com wrote:unwilling to grant or share social, political, or professional rights

I think these are the definitions we're working with when we talk about (for example) laws which prevented black people and white people from intermarrying, or gay people from marrying each other.

The question invited by this thread is "Is it bigoted to be intolerant of bigots?" Is it bigotry to be intolerant of a bigoted opinion?"

I think we have to conclude that no, it isn't. We have to be able to oppose bigoted and harmful ideas. Bigotry itself is inherently harmful, so by opposing it we are serving weal.

We do have to discriminate between this and censorship. In America we have a very strong right to freedom of expression, and bigots and their hateful and harmful ideas are protected forms of expression. The proper response to harmful speech is more speech, in its opposition. Not governmental suppression of that speech.

Frazzled wrote:

AegisGrimm wrote:Bigotry and intolerance are simply a result of individuals' fear and lack of understanding, coupled with human tendency towards herd mentality. Nothing more.

Even simpler, they are actions made towards innocent people/groups by either ignorance, or a feeling to not stand out.

If it was truly justified (which it almost never is), it wouldn't be [u]bigotry at all.

Of course the CHinese gent who refused to move from in front of the lie of tanks was pretty intolerant. Gandhi was an intolerant SOB as well towards oppressors. Churchill was pretty damned intolerant of those nazi dudes. I guess they were both bigots too.

I like this game. No matter who wins, we lose.

You missed the Underlined part. The nameless Chinese man, Ghandi, and Churchill were standing out against bigotry and intolerance. NOT performing it. Churchill was damned by the fact that to stand up to bigotry and intolerance, he was forced to use violence, because sometimes you have to use violence to protect those who can't protect themselves.

The problem of course is the definition. If you're bigoted towards a bigot then you bigoted against a defined group.

Of course the OP proffers that he does not view groups with hatred and intolerance. I can take him at his word. Of course - despite my personal view- I can also see why people would disgaree with same sex marriage without being evil homophobic breeder bigots.

Its a term used to shut down the conversation and bandied about way too much nowdays.

Maybe in the case of Ghandhi, Churchhill and the Chinese guy facing down the tank, their bigotry was not harmful or evil.

In practice, though, most bigotry is.

AegisGrimm wrote:

Frazzled wrote:

AegisGrimm wrote:Bigotry and intolerance are simply a result of individuals' fear and lack of understanding, coupled with human tendency towards herd mentality. Nothing more.

Even simpler, they are actions made towards innocent people/groups by either ignorance, or a feeling to not stand out.

If it was truly justified (which it almost never is), it wouldn't be [u]bigotry at all.

Of course the CHinese gent who refused to move from in front of the lie of tanks was pretty intolerant. Gandhi was an intolerant SOB as well towards oppressors. Churchill was pretty damned intolerant of those nazi dudes. I guess they were both bigots too.

I like this game. No matter who wins, we lose.

You missed the Underlined part. The nameless Chinese man, Ghandi, and Churchill were standing out against bigotry and intolerance. NOT performing it.

Oh contraire mon fraire they hated and were intolerant towards a specific group - oppressors and / or nazis (but not space nazis). If its a group you don't like they are bigots. if its a group you like they aren't.

Okay, so then we just have harmful bigotry (like racism and homophobia) and we have useful bigotry (like anti-Naziism).

I think in general practice the latter is more rare and not a particularly useful application of the term.

Mannahnin wrote:Maybe in the case of Ghandhi, Churchhill and the Chinese guy facing down the tank, their bigotry was not harmful or evil.

In practice, though, most bigotry is.

it was evil as hell for the Nazis. I have the sudden desire to clutch a Papashah tightly and climb onto the back of a T-34. To Berlin!!! er what were talking about?

Frazzled wrote:
Its a term used to shut down the conversation and bandied about way too much nowdays.

Bingo!!

Xole also hit the nail on the head earlier by calling it a meaningless insult, which I think is a real shame, because it used to actually mean something to call someone a bigot.


GG

Mannahnin wrote:Okay, so then we just have harmful bigotry (like racism and homophobia) and we have useful bigotry (like anti-Naziism).

I think in general practice the latter is more rare and not a particularly useful application of the term.

I'm kind of likin your definition there yankee boy (I just found out yankee came from an Indian word yangeese - most cool).


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generalgrog wrote:

Frazzled wrote:
Its a term used to shut down the conversation and bandied about way too much nowdays.

Bingo!!

Xole also hit the nail on the head earlier by calling it a meaningless insult, which I think is a real shame, because it used to actually mean something to call someone a bigot.


GG

Its not meaningless though. Say it to my face when no one's around and its not going to go well for you.

Frazzled wrote:
Its a term used to shut down the conversation and bandied about way too much nowdays.

Frazzled wrote:
Its not meaningless though. Say it to my face when no one's around and its not going to go well for you.

What are ya gonna do?...huh? sick your wiener on me?...oh wait....ummm..NM

GG

There probably is a debate to be had upon what counts as bigotry and intolerance. But I'm not having it with someone who defends their 'disgust' of gay people and says things like...

I know the Bible is right and I know that God doesn't make mistakes, homosexuality is a sexual perversion in the same light as porn addiction, nymphomania, pedophelia etc.

And then cries bigot at people who label him intolerant. Just for example.

Nice, comparing homosexuality to paedophilia.

generalgrog wrote:
Xole also hit the nail on the head earlier by calling it a meaningless insult, which I think is a real shame, because it used to actually mean something to call someone a bigot.

That it so true, I've been called a bigot for just living in the south. I had an Afrocentric call me a racist because I was White (I found that funny as hell). I have a tattoo of the cartoon character Calvin urinating on the word terrorists on my arm, a woman said I was being intolerent toward Muslims and that my tattoo offends her, to which I replied "Good".

I've been called a racist, a bigot, and intolerent so many times in my life for just being myself. political correctness is bullgak. the charge of racism and bigotry should be a serious, and not thrown around everyday.

Claiming that disagreeing with bigots makes one a bigot seems like it's a cheap cop-out to try to avoid talking about one's bigotry.


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MrDwhitey wrote:Nice, comparing homosexuality to paedophilia.

Indeed, his statements are disgusting and hateful.

MrDwhitey wrote:Nice, comparing homosexuality to paedophilia.

Comparison..In that they are considered sexual perversions.

Yes..Mr. Treesong always likes to bring that little ditty up, but he always forgets the part about where I said that I didn't equivocate homosexuality to pedophilia...but it gets him short term shock value points so he keeps bringing it up. Quite unfairly, because he uses it out of context, in my opinion.

Again it's another shot at me, not at the topic at hand.

Please keep to the topic, no matter how tempting it may be to turn this into an "attack Grog" thread.

GG

generalgrog wrote:Comparison..In that they are considered sexual perversions.

Homosexuality is not considered a "sexual perversion."

I'm not attacking you, Grog. But if it makes you feel better, perhaps I should call you a smeerp instead of a bigot?

Step 1: Redefine bigotry so that it only means active KKK members who are actively burning crosses in front of African American churches.

Step 2: Call anyone that disagrees with your bigoted world view a bigot or otherwise intolerant of your bigotry that is deeply rooted in a flawed and ridiculous understanding of Christianity.

Step 3: Back political platforms that actively hurt non-whites.

Step 4: Pretend that it is just a coincidence that voter ID laws hurt African Americans, that immigration laws target Latinos, attacking a woman's ownership of her own body, denying homosexuals equal rights and protection, and fear mongering against Muslims all look like a coordinated attempt to go after anyone not straight, white, male, and Christian.

Step 5: Get upset because Vice President Biden said something about chains? Complain about the New Black Panther Party standing in front of a polling place. Talk about how white Christians are the real oppressed people.

Step 6: Win elections?

TheHammer wrote:Step 1: Redefine bigotry so that it only means active KKK members who are actively burning crosses in front of African American churches.

Step 2: Call anyone that disagrees with your bigoted world view a bigot or otherwise intolerant of your bigotry that is deeply rooted in a flawed and ridiculous understanding of Christianity.

Step 3: Back political platforms that actively hurt non-whites.

Step 4: Pretend that it is just a coincidence that voter ID laws hurt African Americans, that immigration laws target Latinos, attacking a woman's ownership of her own body, denying homosexuals equal rights and protection, and fear mongering against Muslims all look like a coordinated attempt to go after anyone not straight, white, male, and Christian.

Step 5: Get upset because Vice President Biden said something about chains? Complain about the New Black Panther Party standing in front of a polling place. Talk about how white Christians are the real oppressed people.

Step 6: Win elections?

Where the feth did all this come from!?

From my BRAAAAAAAIN!

And an astute understanding of the world.

TheHammer wrote:Talk about how white Christians are the real oppressed people.

It is rather sad how many people try to do this.

Someone a little hot under the collar I've a feeling though someone trying to manipulate the thread

TheHammer wrote:Step 1: Redefine bigotry so that it only means active KKK members who are actively burning crosses in front of African American churches.

Step 2: Call anyone that disagrees with your bigoted world view a bigot or otherwise intolerant of your bigotry that is deeply rooted in a flawed and ridiculous understanding of Christianity.

Step 3: Back political platforms that actively hurt non-whites.

Step 4: Pretend that it is just a coincidence that voter ID laws hurt African Americans, that immigration laws target Latinos, attacking a woman's ownership of her own body, denying homosexuals equal rights and protection, and fear mongering against Muslims all look like a coordinated attempt to go after anyone not straight, white, male, and Christian.

Step 5: Get upset because Vice President Biden said something about chains? Complain about the New Black Panther Party standing in front of a polling place. Talk about how white Christians are the real oppressed people.

Step 6: Win elections?

U high bro?

Ultimately, bigotry and intolerance is decided by society at large. So when desegregation was painfully working its way through the US, those opposed to it were at the time not generally considered bigoted. Of course, the lens of history does not cast them as such. One may say that gay rights are not the same as black rights, but then one would be wrong. The similarities far outweigh the differences.

GG, it is really how you are perceived on this forum. No matter how much you don't like it, your intolerance of gays based on your beliefs is considered bigotry by this society at large.

We all know the real answer to this.

A bigot is someone who disagrees with me.

Intolerance is when people don't give me what I want/deserve.

And this me that I am referring to is me, Bromsy, not some philosophical point I am trying to make. The sooner we quit pretending I am not the protagonist of this particular world, the better.

Bromsy wrote:And this me that I am referring to is me, Bromsy, not some philosophical point I am trying to make. The sooner we quit pretending I am not the protagonist of this particular world, the better.

You're not the protagonist. You're the plucky sidekick.

I'm the protagonist.

Bromsy wrote:A bigot is someone who disagrees with me.

Intolerance is when people don't give me what I want/deserve.

Agreed, when you are being yourself, you are ultimately going to offend somebody.

Melissia wrote:Claiming that disagreeing with bigots makes one a bigot seems like it's a cheap cop-out to try to avoid talking about one's bigotry.

Now you're just being a bigot.



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broodstar wrote:

TheHammer wrote:Step 1: Redefine bigotry so that it only means active KKK members who are actively burning crosses in front of African American churches.

Step 2: Call anyone that disagrees with your bigoted world view a bigot or otherwise intolerant of your bigotry that is deeply rooted in a flawed and ridiculous understanding of Christianity.

Step 3: Back political platforms that actively hurt non-whites.

Step 4: Pretend that it is just a coincidence that voter ID laws hurt African Americans, that immigration laws target Latinos, attacking a woman's ownership of her own body, denying homosexuals equal rights and protection, and fear mongering against Muslims all look like a coordinated attempt to go after anyone not straight, white, male, and Christian.

Step 5: Get upset because Vice President Biden said something about chains? Complain about the New Black Panther Party standing in front of a polling place. Talk about how white Christians are the real oppressed people.

Step 6: Win elections?

Where the feth did all this come from!?

This guy?

TheHammer wrote:Step 1: Redefine bigotry so that it only means active KKK members who are actively burning crosses in front of African American churches.

Or have people use the word correctly and not just as a personal attack to win debates.

Step 2: Call anyone that disagrees with your bigoted world view a bigot or otherwise intolerant of your bigotry that is deeply rooted in a flawed and ridiculous understanding of Christianity.

Question: Why is the Chistian the bigot? Is this just a single example with many more unmentioned examples or are you say Chistans are the only group to commit bigotry?

Step 3: Back political platforms that actively hurt non-whites.

I sense an Afrocentric in the force.

Step 4: Pretend that it is just a coincidence that voter ID laws hurt African Americans,

OMG, it's such an inconvienence to go get an ID to vote. Tell me how going to get an ID is such an inconvienence ecspecially in states like South Carolina where ID's are FREE.

that immigration laws target Latinos,

Well an anology, If you have a problem of car rim thefts, where do you put the police survalience unit? Beverly Hills? or LA? (For British London? or Liverpool?)

attacking a woman's ownership of her own body,

I'm sorry, I'm stupid, what are you getting at?

denying homosexuals equal rights and protection,

Hold on, rights and protection? Tell me where a Homosexual is denied the right to religion, speech, private property, do process, etc...?

and fear mongering against Muslims

I take it he forgot what racial demograph alqida recruits from.

Complain about the New Black Panther Party standing in front of a polling place.

Come on, you and I both know that if the KKK had stood infront of a poll with a bat saying "If you vote, you better vote white", that gak would be all over the nows and wouldn't be dismissed. The Black Panthers are a racist group and should be afforded the same disrespect.


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Frazzled wrote:
This guy?

Pennywise!!! OMG!!!!

Bigot:

A hybrid resulting from the cross of an donkey-cave and an ignoramus, closely related to both the gak-head and the dick. While this adaptable and prolific creature can be found most anywhere and can be most anyone, they have particular tendency to congregate around buildings containing ancient texts. The bigot is less typically found in and around institutions of higher education but remain wary as they are far from absent in those places. A bigot can easily be identified by it's call, a shrill grating sound that typically sounds like "Moral Superiority" though it varies. Bigots identify their prey almost entirely by traits that the victim has no control over and that present no threat to the bigot. As pack hunters bigots rarely target anything bigger than them, and never anything with more institutional power. The bigot reproduces prolifically both via typical sexual reproduction, and by lying.

Remember if you find an infestation of bigots in your area, there are steps you can take. While it's extremely difficult to change a bigot, information and reality both prove to be wonderful measures for preventing a bigot colony from growing.