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Russia is so damn corrupt i'd be shocked if anyone was surprised at this...

Russia is so damn corrupt i'd be shocked if anyone was surprised at this...

Think no one be shocked if Putin decides to clean house either

Jihadin wrote:

Russia is so damn corrupt i'd be shocked if anyone was surprised at this...

Think no one be shocked if Putin decides to clean house either

What does that even mean?

What does that even mean?

Seriously Shuma......

I assume it means no one would be shocked if he replaced all of his cabinet or whatever analogue they have in Russia...
Though it could mean kill instead of replace...
Though i don't know any reason he would, he chose them after all...

purplefood wrote:I assume it means no one would be shocked if he replaced all of his cabinet or whatever analogue they have in Russia...
Though it could mean kill instead of replace...
Though i don't know any reason he would, he chose them after all...

Yeah, that's what I thought it meant, it just makes absolutely no sense.

Seriously? Three women are doing hard time for what should be legitimate protest in a civilised society, and most of you say something along the lines of "good thing too".

Give your fething heads a shake.

Seriously? Three women are doing hard time for what should be legitimate protest in a civilised society, and most of you say something along the lines of "good thing too".

Russia....Putin....not a good thing.

Well the music is not terribly good, and they seem pretty obnoxious overall. I am fine with protest, but this really does cross the line.





I did find another of their videos which seemed like legitimate protest, standing in front of the kremlin doing their thing, and they were not arrested for that.

I find the lack of amplifiers and drum kits remarkable and annoying, but impressed they have decided to do something more than languish in obscurity in seedy rock clubs/basements like the average "girl band."

Not a big fan of Russia and its policies both past and present, but I am not sure if 2 years is inappropriate for some young ladies that cause such a fuss in a church, set fire to things, disrupt businesses, and spray fire extinguishers and other smoke like devices at people on the street.

You people saying they deserved it or that 'it seems about right' are disgusting. Two years in a Russian jail is no holiday, and for what, making a lot of noise and fuss in a church? No one was actually hurt, it was a noisy demonstration. Maybe unwise, but not actually harmful. And frankly, there's a genuine point to be made about Russia's government. In the UK you would not get two years for that. You might get something, but it's a matter of civil disorder at most and you'd get weeks at most. Which is far more appropriate for three young women making a scene in a church, if they need imprisoning at all. This sentencing just shows again how corrupt Putin's Russia is. Putin's Russia is an evil regime and utterly opposed to the freedoms of any true democracy. Whatever people say about this being a PR disaster for Putin, he doesn't care. He's sitting on a load of oil and plenty of guns, all he wants to prove is that he controls what people are allowed to think out loud in his country.

Though I suppose they can consider themselves lucky they weren't simply murdered like some journalists. Which is entirely legal in Russia as a few years ago they passed laws that allow the extra judicial killing of dissidents both inside and outside their own country. And before anyone tries to draw any comparison, unlike the US dropping bombs on members of alqaeda, Russia used this to silence critics, particularly journalists, of Putin's regime. Or pretty much anyone they don't like.

Russia is a dangerous country to express opinions that the government don't agree with. In protests about the trial, so some of the public do care, they arrested various people including Garry Kasparov and allegedly beat him up. I'm sure that an old chess master was tearing the street up, he seems about the sort really.

Their government seems rife with ex KGB sorts (and probably those involved with the Russian mafia) who lust for the 'glory days' of the USSR when they had power, they frequently come across as desperate to maintain their standing as a world power, but it's unlikely they'll ever have the size and power of the Soviet Union again. That's why they're always threatening countries like Ukraine over their energy supplies to show them who has all the power, or the way they kicked Georgia in after the war in South Ossetia, seemingly just to prove who had all the military might.

Thanks Howard, you say what I wanted to say much better than I would.

Check out the first post

Mannahnin wrote:Putin's government reminds us all that they are right up there with China when it comes to freedom of expression.

No doubt

I feel for these poor women. Even if the band name is terrible. Whatever happened to the right to protest? Does Putin really deserve another term in power?

The right to protest does not entitle people to do as they please and create disruption wherever they wish. A civilised society would have simply charged them with breach of the peace, and handed them a warning, or a fine. The jail sentence is not only highly disproportionate, but I'm very interested to know how the prosecution proved to satisfaction that the crime was motivated by sectarian prejudice, as has been reported, presumably in order to gain the harshest punishment possible .

Kovnik Obama wrote:

LordofHats wrote:

Kovnik Obama wrote:Hey hey, gotta love the French press ; ''A condemnation worty of the Inquisition''.

Pft, please. The Inquisition would have burned them at the stake and then talked about how they confessed their sins

Not really. At least, not unless you were in Spain, at a very specific point in time, or were Jewish. The Inquisition was a lot less torch-happy then history has put them to be.

Gotta go an use the real world to spoil the fun don't ya

They're lucky they didn't have an "unfortunate accident".

Putin is kind of a dick.

 CT GAMER wrote:
One in the pink two in the clink?

Take an exalt for that

More seriously it's sad that this is an improvement overall with Russia's "free speech" issues. The band would have probably found themselves in the gulag or shot in the head long before they protested in a Russian Orthodox church in the Soviet Union. Overall this pretty pathetic, the protestors deserved punishment certainly, making a scene like that on private property is just begging for legal trouble but two years in prison? That's excessive for sure.

I gotta agree with Shuma, the general Russian reaction supporting the jailing is heinous.

 Squigsquasher wrote:
I feel for these poor women. Even if the band name is terrible. Whatever happened to the right to protest? Does Putin really deserve another term in power?

There are no rights but which those society grants. and in Russia protesting really isnt a right. and to be honest...I'd rather have Putin in power, He's more predictable, willing to work with the US(despite public denouncing of the US, thats just domestic posturing). He's also able to keep Russia in line and has given hope to the Russian people that their country wont fall apart. He's better than a weak ruler who could cause instability in Russia, instability in nuclear powers in not good.
For countries that have no history of democratic processes(?) a shift to a full/real democracy is not always the best solution.

Could it happen here? Yes, in a way.
Taking over a church would likely result in nothing, even though in Pussy Riots case the church itself was targeted for abuse, not just used as a stage.

However , try wondering what would happen if a bunch of inappropriately dressed people burst into a mosque or synagogue and sangs crude politicised songs attacking the relgions political status.
They would be in court on hate crime charges. And they would be lucky to get only two years.

I think this needs to be placed in perspective.

 Huffy wrote:
There are no rights but which those society grants. and in Russia protesting really isnt a right. and to be honest...I'd rather have Putin in power, He's more predictable, willing to work with the US(despite public denouncing of the US, thats just domestic posturing). He's also able to keep Russia in line and has given hope to the Russian people that their country wont fall apart. He's better than a weak ruler who could cause instability in Russia, instability in nuclear powers in not good.
For countries that have no history of democratic processes(?) a shift to a full/real democracy is not always the best solution.

Are you serious? Have you even been paying attention to the shenanigans Putin gets up to? What, exactly, has Putin been willing to work with the U.S. on? Certainly not Syria.

I want to see if I have this straight. You are saying it's better for a dictator to be in charge that kills and jails any vocal opposition rather than continuing to transition to an open society? Instability in nuclear powers? Have you taken a look at Pakistan lately?

I am appalled at any Western citizen that thinks this was a legitimate sentence. How much time do you think they'd have gotten if the world hadn't taken notice?

KalashnikovMarine wrote:More seriously it's sad that this is an improvement overall with Russia's "free speech" issues. The band would have probably found themselves in the gulag or shot in the head long before they protested in a Russian Orthodox church in the Soviet Union.

Did you pull that out of a Cold War school book? As with most governments, it depends on the era (you wouldn't compare present day US to the McCarthy time either), and the Soviet Union was pretty open under Gorbachev's Glasnost. It has actually gotten worse again since those years. The worst thing is that, this time, the church is working with the system - which is why these girls protested where they did, I think.

newbis wrote:I want to see if I have this straight. You are saying it's better for a dictator to be in charge that kills and jails any vocal opposition rather than continuing to transition to an open society? Instability in nuclear powers? Have you taken a look at Pakistan lately?

That is an opinion pretty prominent with US foreign policies, it seems. And from a nation's point of view, it makes sense insofar that this nation would only care for what happens to its own citizens, and completely disregarding violations of human rights elsewhere. Whether this is moral or not is, of course, debatable. Usually this stance is only applied to dictators that have at least an okay relationship to the US, which is why I'm somewhat surprised as well.

They're very irritating, stupid obnoxious hippie feminist scum.

Obviously that doesn't mean they should be locked up. Putin's regime has been murdering journelists for a decade, so this really isn't terribly surprising.

Anyone remember david kelly? the Dude who didnt want the UK to go to war in Iraq? Who was then found murd... I mean had comited suicide?

Yeah the Russians are dicks for doing this, but so are the UK/US who also do this sort of thing .. hell every country on planet earth do aswell I bet, the big diference it the Russians dont care if we see it happen.

 KalashnikovMarine wrote:

 CT GAMER wrote:
One in the pink two in the clink?

Take an exalt for that

More seriously it's sad that this is an improvement overall with Russia's "free speech" issues. The band would have probably found themselves in the gulag or shot in the head long before they protested in a Russian Orthodox church in the Soviet Union. Overall this pretty pathetic, the protestors deserved punishment certainly, making a scene like that on private property is just begging for legal trouble but two years in prison? That's excessive for sure.

I gotta agree with Shuma, the general Russian reaction supporting the jailing is heinous.

The soviet union ended 21 years ago, in the years following its downfall russia become a much more free society. It has markedly regressed in the past 5 years as putin has consolidated his hold on the nation. A decade ago something like this wouldn't of been handled in broad daylight in front of the entire world. They've become brazen in their immunity.

 newbis wrote:

Are you serious? Have you even been paying attention to the shenanigans Putin gets up to? What, exactly, has Putin been willing to work with the U.S. on? Certainly not Syria.

Its more a case of Putin being stable and predictable, than sympathetic.

 newbis wrote:

I want to see if I have this straight. You are saying it's better for a dictator to be in charge that kills and jails any vocal opposition rather than continuing to transition to an open society?

It depends on what the vocal opposition wants.

 newbis wrote:

Instability in nuclear powers? Have you taken a look at Pakistan lately?

Interestingly, Pakistan is a hybrid democracy, and significantly more open in terms of civil society than Russia. So I guess the question is: have you looked at Pakistan recently?

Granted, the two countries aren't really comparable due to hugely different social, ethnic, and political structures.

Lynata wrote:That is an opinion pretty prominent with US foreign policies, it seems.

Oh, its not just US foreign policy.

Lynata wrote:
Usually this stance is only applied to dictators that have at least an okay relationship to the US, which is why I'm somewhat surprised as well.

Putin has an okay relationship with the US. For the most part, US foreign policy only take umbrage to overtly hostile dictatorships.

 Lynata wrote:

KalashnikovMarine wrote:More seriously it's sad that this is an improvement overall with Russia's "free speech" issues. The band would have probably found themselves in the gulag or shot in the head long before they protested in a Russian Orthodox church in the Soviet Union.

Did you pull that out of a Cold War school book? As with most governments, it depends on the era (you wouldn't compare present day US to the McCarthy time either), and the Soviet Union was pretty open under Gorbachev's Glasnost. It has actually gotten worse again since those years. The worst thing is that, this time, the church is working with the system - which is why these girls protested where they did, I think.

I stress again "Overall". In general the USSR/Russia has been an excellent place to get silenced if you speak out. If you made a graph out of it this would be a recent low point but it's still a hell of a lot better then historic lows.

I listen to a lot of news on the radio and there is one thing for sure in this story

There have been more people then I have ever heard saying pussy on the air

 Testify wrote:
They're very irritating, stupid obnoxious hippie feminist scum.

You don't believe women deserve equal rights?

this thread will now go dark places...


Nom

 nomsheep wrote:
this thread will now go dark places...


Nom

It already went there. This forum is nothing if not in the gutter whenever issues relating to women or protests movements arise. Hell, it's there most of the time in general, this community isn't particularly enlightened or rational.

Also, stop signing your posts. You have a signature section that you are making ample usage of, the signing is just annoying.