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HoW is always at base strength and AP- as HoW says.

 DeathReaper wrote:
HoW is always at base strength and AP- as Smash says.

As HoW Says


But it was pretty much a jab at the fact that my question was answered and then we've had a whole page of Math Arguments

 Bloodhorror wrote:
So.....

No smashing when i use hammer of wrath right?

Correct. Even if you declare a Smash attack, HoW goes off at your unmodified strength.

 DeathReaper wrote:

Luide wrote:
@DeathReaper
You still haven't answered the question: Where does it say divide happens after addition and subtraction.

Smash rule, by virtue of the timing within.

Timing within what? The Smash rule? Because I see no such timing defined in the rule. All I see is it saying when you make a close combat attack you can halve your attacks characteristic, nothing that says you divide last.

 Bloodhorror wrote:
So.....

No smashing when i use hammer of wrath right?

*


Correct, re the first sentence in Smash where it tells you it cannot be used with Hammer of Wrath attacks.

LOL, when I read the title of this thread I knew it would devolve in to a debate about how to calculate # of Smash attacks. Well, I don't know if you can call it a debate where there is virtually the entire 40k player base on side and DeathReaper on the other, but you have to give kuddos to that kid for his tenacity!

fleetofclaw wrote:
LOL, when I read the title of this thread I knew it would devolve in to a debate about how to calculate # of Smash attacks. Well, I don't know if you can call it a debate where there is virtually the entire 40k player base on side and DeathReaper on the other, but you have to give kuddos to that kid for his tenacity!

I will give Kudos when a logical argument is presented. All I see now is nothing even supported by rules or definitions of words involved.

 Bloodhorror wrote:

 DeathReaper wrote:
HoW is always at base strength and AP- as Smash says.

As HoW Says


But it was pretty much a jab at the fact that my question was answered and then we've had a whole page of Math Arguments

Right "as HoW says" not 'Smash', Edited my previous post.

Right. No smashing when you use HoW.

If nothing else, there would be no reason to ever not use it if it worked that way - you get one attack at Str for HoW. Smash halves the number of attacks(rounding up to 1) and doubles str. There would be no downside.

EDIT: Oops, didn't see the question answered. :( My bad.

TBH I agree with DR. There are a number of modifiers that occur at different times. I can see the formula in 2 ways:

Using a Tervigon with Crushing Claws and Warp Speed who charges.
3/2 + D3 +D3 +1 = 5-7
(3+D3+D3+1)/2 = 3-5

Both follow the rules as they are written (and I'm not getting into that silly division is not multiplication thing).
As a Nid player I would use the second as when there is confusion you use that which is least advantageous.

This is also the reason I disagree with the Banshee Mask vs Whip Coils. This is because (IMO) the Banshee Mask application comes before the Whip Coils (and due to the wording of both).

Happyjew wrote:
This is also the reason I disagree with the Banshee Mask vs Whip Coils. This is because (IMO) the Banshee Mask application comes before the Whip Coils (and due to the wording of both).

Do you disagree with the FAQ that explicitly states to roll-off in case of Banshee Masks vs Whip coils instead of applying them in the ordet they come? Or did I misunderstand what you meant.
Besides, wouldn't Whip Coils models who made it into base contant come before Banshee masks, because of Banshee mask timing? I know it's 4e vs 6e timing, but I think Banshee Mask timing basically translates to "Start of the Fight sub-phase" in 6e.

I do disagree with the FAQ. A model with a Banshee Mask has a Initiative 10 in the first round of combat. They don't count as Initiative 10, their Statline is changed to Initiative 10. Whip Coils state that any model in base contact counts their Initiative as 1 regardless of actual Initiative. According to the wordings of both wargear the Howling Banshees Initiaitve would be:

Init 5->Init 10 (due to Banshee Mask), but counts as Init 1 due to Whip Coils.

RIGHT. nO SMASHING. Just 1 base str init 10 ap2 hit.

Lungpickle wrote:
RIGHT. nO SMASHING. Just 1 base str init 10 ap2 hit.

The underlined is incorrect.

HoW specifies that its attack is AP-

Actually it specifies it is an Attack with AP-, same as a CCW does. THe reason you dont get smash is because Smash / HoW specifically state you do not

A Rending Claws 'nid rolling a 6 to wound would get an AP2 attack from HoW