Lack of ethnic diversity in 40k

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**Steelmage99**

Oh, it's this thread again.

*Resets clock*

**Dark Scipio**

Serious:

You decicde which colour your costum chapter or Regiment has.

So dont blame GW, that they created a dominat white skin based game in the 90s (not much from the 80s fluff still exists) when they had nearly 100% white customers.

Steelmage99 wrote:
Oh, it's this thread again.

*Resets clock*

Oh its this comment again.

*Resets clock

**Godeth**

To be far Salamanders are black, then theres tallaran desert raider's, they dont look british. If you want an ethnis army then paint em ethnic. I was at games day this year and I saw about two black guys. As mentioned before I think Its been an over sight, due to the fact that itis mainly young white guys that design and play the game. It would be good to see an ethnic army on a game table. Maybe you should get in touch with some of the designers and suggest a few characters.

**Goat**

I'm with the whole 38k years of mixing and only some remote places still have near pure bloodlines but as a whole the imperium is mixed genepool. Look at the names of some of the characters they come from different Terra nations of old. But I suppose it is odd there are no Tyrones', Sheniquas', Reggies', Kikis', or Lil'(insert name here)s' in the 41st Mill.

**jadebullet**

In the first Dawn of War game, the Inquisitor was black. Also, in several novels there are black characters. But yes, there are black people in 40K. The Cadians however, are all white and all have violet eyes. This is actually brought up in Cadian Blood by ADB, since either the Commissar or the Inquisitor is black, I forget which one, and it is seen as very strikingly odd by the main character since he is used to the entirely white Cadian population. I personally intend to add some black troopers to my IG army when I work on them again.

**wowsmash**

Not our fualt the nids are dark chocolate fans. All that's left is the white and who likes that

**Invisible Jesus**

Dark Scipio wrote:
Serious:

You decicde which colour your costum chapter or Regiment has.

So dont blame GW, that they created a dominat white skin based game in the 90s (not much from the 80s fluff still exists) when they had nearly 100% white customers.

It seems you have a really hard time understanding English, as we have said numerous times now that this was never about any accusation of racism. Get it? What do I have to do to spell that out? It was a perfectly reasonable question, certainly more reasonable than discussing my little pony space marines...I was just curious. Seriously, why do people jump down your throat on dakka when you ask perfectly reasonable questions? Frustrating to say the least.

As for the person who said this is one of many threads that discuss the same topic and this thread should be locked: Well, I didn't find any. I also happen to have a business to help run so don't have much time to search endlessly through threads. So if you don't like it, don't reply. It's really that simple. You are just wasting your time moaning...Surely, you have something better to do? What's worse is now you've wasted my time having to reply to you. *le sigh*

**daedalus-templarius**

After so many years of race mingling, all of humanity is a nice shade of pretty light brown.

At least, that is what I'd expect. Skin tones in art are likely regularly selected in terms of contrast rather than canon.

**CuddlySquig**

In my head I have sometimes entertained the idea that the Imperium is as racist as it is xenophobic. Perhaps sometime in their ancient past they considered everyone who wasn't white to be a mutant and they were accordingly persecuted (but here and there, some were tolerated). Obviously the Imperium has a standing criteria of what it considers properly human. Does skin colour factor in there too? I know GW would never elaborate on such a theory, but given how the Imperium thinks, it does seem to be an idea.

**Invisible Jesus**

Goat wrote:
I'm with the whole 38k years of mixing and only some remote places still have near pure bloodlines but as a whole the imperium is mixed genepool. Look at the names of some of the characters they come from different Terra nations of old. But I suppose it is odd there are no Tyrones', Sheniquas', Reggies', Kikis', or Lil'(insert name here)s' in the 41st Mill.

Yes it is odd. Thanks for understanding that the original question was just out of curiosity, not an accusation or attack on GW lol

I don't think Salamanders are Afro-Carribean, despite being black, as it has been explained above it is a result of radiation/gene flaws.

So really we have only a smattering of non-white ethnicities:

Tallarn's are undoubtedly Arabs.
RR are huns or whatever...
There are a couple of afro-carribean catachan's.
There is a black librarian on Dawn of War computer game (who looks cool actually).
Sightings of a couple of afro-carribean Commissars in Black Library.
Sightings of 2 'real' afro-carribeans at games day.

Not a lot then to be honest.

I would actually like to suggest some to GW, along with new black flesh paint to paint them.

I want a Imperial Guard commander like Sargent Apone from Aliens, for a start.
Then Chinese dudes as regimental advisors would be nice.

Actually, the same thought applies to the lack of female representation within 40k...

**akaean**

I was talking to my friend about some similar topic last weekend. He said he remembered reading a blog where a dude painting his Imperial Guard had developed 6 different skin tones. He then would roll a d6 for each model, and they would get the corresponding skin color!

One other point is, that it starts to look really bad if you paint armies like Chaos Space Marines black. Oh yea, the cult worshiping hooligans hell bent on the destruction of the universe, of COURSE you painted them black. You get the idea. It can be well done, but generally its just more PC (politically correct not plasma cannon, or maybe ESPECIALLY plasma cannon!) to paint guys your own skin tone, since you run a lower risk of offending anybody.

**Invisible Jesus**

CuddlySquig wrote:
In my head I have sometimes entertained the idea that the Imperium is as racist as it is xenophobic. Perhaps sometime in their ancient past they considered everyone who wasn't white to be a mutant and they were accordingly persecuted (but here and there, some were tolerated). Obviously the Imperium has a standing criteria of what it considers properly human. Does skin colour factor in there too? I know GW would never elaborate on such a theory, but given how the Imperium thinks, it does seem to be an idea.

Yeah, but honestly this seems like a convenient way of explaining it away...

I also don't know enough about genetics to say whether it's possible for one ethnicity to become 'dominant'. In this case, white genes...But when we start talking about dominant white genes overcoming inferior weak black genes it starts becoming an awkward conversation....

Automatically Appended Next Post:

akaean wrote:
I was talking to my friend about some similar topic last weekend. He said he remembered reading a blog where a dude painting his Imperial Guard had developed 6 different skin tones. He then would roll a d6 for each model, and they would get the corresponding skin color!

One other point is, that it starts to look really bad if you paint armies like Chaos Space Marines black. Oh yea, the cult worshiping hooligans hell bent on the destruction of the universe, of COURSE you painted them black. You get the idea. It can be well done, but generally its just more PC (politically correct not plasma cannon, or maybe ESPECIALLY plasma cannon!) to paint guys your own skin tone, since you run a lower risk of offending anybody.

Very good points all around!

I would like to find that blog btw, sounds interesting and a good way of creating realism with 6 differently ethnicities in an IG army. I wonder if it's really as hard as people are claiming to paint non-white skin?

Maybe GW are scared of offending people or being racist if they start painting non-white characters? That could be it. Because some people are so over-sensitive on the issue that if they painted 'cannon fodder' troops all black then all the senior officials (commissars and gak) white, they could get accusations of racism.

**CuddlySquig**

Invisible Jesus wrote:

Yeah, but honestly this seems like a convenient way of explaining it away...

This is 40k, it is made of convenient ways of explaining away unrealistic universal constants.

**Grey Templar**

CuddlySquig wrote:
Invisible Jesus wrote:

Yeah, but honestly this seems like a convenient way of explaining it away...

This is 40k, it is made of convenient ways of explaining away unrealistic universal constants.

Isn't that Sci-fi/Fantesy in general though?

**CuddlySquig**

Grey Templar wrote:

Isn't that Sci-fi/Fantesy in general though?

If you're looking for an in-universe (unlike the above theory that points to sensitivity issues on GW's part) theory as to why a fascist, xenophobic empire is made up mostly of one visible ethnicity I think you'd have to settle for some form of racism. Probably more plausible than some of the canon explanations for some things, like why the Imperium doesn't use AI.

**TheAngrySquig**

DeffDred wrote:
Sigh... this thread again?

Should I copy paste my previous comment from last week? The week before?

Perhaps I should just put a link to one of the countless threads on the exact same subject.

Maybe a Mod could just lock this before it becomes a stupid argument about race or something.

Better yet, maybe people should use the search function so we can stop seeing the same crap pop up every 7 to 14 days...

text removed.
Reds8n

**d3m01iti0n**

There was a black Sword Bretheren in the Damnation Crusade graphic novel. BLACK Templars wut?

And if youre from the school that believes Event Horizon is a 40K prequel there were two black guys in that =)

**T-rex**

I agree with the (marginal) opinion that this is because the emperium is fascist in itself.
From a political lens it has all the elements of fascism in its purest form. Thus logical that over the time they must have had social/racial engeneering programs.

Also, lot of inbreeding/cloning with SM just to look like children of the emperor.
Also, GW prolly didn't put any thought into it at the start (I would not either); and then didn't want to break the canon.

Anyways, Long live the greenskins.

**Invisible Jesus**

CuddlySquig wrote:
Grey Templar wrote:

Isn't that Sci-fi/Fantesy in general though?

If you're looking for an in-universe (unlike the above theory that points to sensitivity issues on GW's part) theory as to why a fascist, xenophobic empire is made up mostly of one visible ethnicity I think you'd have to settle for some form of racism. Probably more plausible than some of the canon explanations for some things, like why the Imperium doesn't use AI.

Well, isn't the AI to do with the uprising of the 'iron men' that nearly annihilated humanity? ...So basically they stole the Battlestar Galactica concept. Plausible though.

Automatically Appended Next Post:

CuddlySquig wrote:
Invisible Jesus wrote:

Yeah, but honestly this seems like a convenient way of explaining it away...

This is 40k, it is made of convenient ways of explaining away unrealistic universal constants.

True, but this subject is a bit different.

**DeffDred**

I'm talking about 40,000 years of humans breeding with humans. Eventually there wouldn't be minorities. All races will cross-breed with one another eventually.

Then disasters like nuclear war, the civil wars of ancient Terra (our future, 40ks past), the wars of unification. All these things would thin the herd of a race that is already losing it's unique racial traits.

In a few hundred years Earth is going to be covered in a race of humans that will look like a cross between asians and mexicans. There's a great NatGeo on it.

Basically I guess I'm saying that it doesn't make sense that there are white people in 40k. There souldn't be any blonde or red hair. There shouldn't be any green or blue eyes.

There should only be brown skinned, brown haired, brown eyed (hehehe) humans that far into the future, even before galactic colonization.

I would assume that some worlds would begin to force certain human groups to re-evolve some of the older traits but possibly for different reasons than would happen on earth.

A race of humans that were forced to live underground (Horus and his homeworld) would probably begin to evolve back into subterrainian traits (better night vision, shorter stature, pale skin.

The races of Terra wouldn't have the gene-diversity to form a world entirely of the mongolians (The Khan) for example.

The history of 40k claims that at one point Earth was united and had spread through the stars as a single race who allied with alien races.

A global unity for hundreds of years would slowly errode the differences between mankind and result in a more singular form of human.

Of course there is nothing to say that random traits could spring up from time to time.

There. How's that Angrysquig? Can you calm down now?

**Kilkrazy**

A Moderator wrote:
Maybe everyone could calm down and stop agging each other.

Every thread on the board is not started to specifically entertain you.

There are lots of topics that get repeated because new people join and want to discuss them, and other reasons. If you are not interested in the repeated topic, read a different thread.

At the same time, new members should check if there is a same/similar thread on the front page, and add to that rather than make a duplicate thread.

**Gothicangel**

all of this aside... it is all up to you... in a few roleplaying games that i have found set in the 40k universe they have plenty of black people... there are also purple people and grey skinned people... it all depends on the planet.

**wowsmash**

If I remember my biology class from way back the did a lesson on differen genes transferring over to offspring. Blues eyes, brown hair, tall short that kinda thing. If I remember right they said the most dominant was asian. As far as ethnicity goes. It was intersting to learn that having blue eyes like i have is an anomaly similar to albino being an anomaly. This might be slightly of or even have changed. After that they kinda got into cells and all that stuff just kinda went right over my head.

**Kroothawk**

Also has to do with the fact that the Japanese theme is covered by Tau (blue skin!), the noble savage theme is covered by Kroot, the wild and brutal low tech theme is covered by Orks (green skin!). Kislev Flesh is perfect for East Asian skin. My Dark Eldar have dark violet skin.

Puppet Wars offers Native American Heads for Space Marines ( http://www.puppetswar.com/product.php?id_product=32 ).
Basicks offers (IG?) Rasta heads ( http://basicks.eu/shop/product.php?id_product=206 ).
Kromlech offers SM Samurai heads ( http://www.ebay.de/itm/Kromlech-Cyber-Samurai-Heads-/150654434534?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item2313b43ce6 )
Dragon Forge is offering Afro-American heads: http://dragonforge.com/Painting%20service/for%20sale/conversion_parts.htm

**DeffDred**

Lol, first row:

Wesley Snipes (Simon says bleed!)
Blondie Dred from Bad Boys 2
The guy from Bill and Ted

Second row:

Michael Clarke Duncan (god rest his soul) w/bionic eye
Keegan-Michael Key
Lawrance Fishburne as Morphius

Third row:

Obama w/ cyborg eye
Obama
Obama w/ eye patch

Those are really nice sculpts. They should make more dred-heads. I would so make a marine army with all rasta-ish marines. None of the pot references, however.

**Ailaros**

Wow, kroothawk, nice find.

Anyways, welcome to a post-racial world. You don't need "the negro savages" to play the bad guys when your bad guys are 40-foot-tall alien monsters. On the flip side, GW is under no obligation to ensure that the human beings portrayed are one of every race in a horrible, hackneyed, and, ultimately racist way (like the original star trek, or the mod squad).

I mean, in the end it's the OP who is getting worked up about skin color here...

**Quintinus**

DeffDred wrote:

Lol, first row:

Wesley Snipes (Simon says bleed!)
Blondie Dred from Bad Boys 2
The guy from Bill and Ted

Second row:

Michael Clarke Duncan (god rest his soul) w/bionic eye
Keegan-Michael Key
Lawrance Fishburne as Morphius

Third row:

Obama w/ cyborg eye
Obama
Obama w/ eye patch

Those are really nice sculpts. They should make more dred-heads. I would so make a marine army with all rasta-ish marines. None of the pot references, however.

In other news, I just found the heads for my new unit of Khorne Berzerkers....

**KamikazeCanuck**

Grey Templar wrote:

The actual human population of Nocturne has light skin.

That's stated flat out somehwere?

Automatically Appended Next Post:

CuddlySquig wrote:
In my head I have sometimes entertained the idea that the Imperium is as racist as it is xenophobic. Perhaps sometime in their ancient past they considered everyone who wasn't white to be a mutant and they were accordingly persecuted (but here and there, some were tolerated). Obviously the Imperium has a standing criteria of what it considers properly human. Does skin colour factor in there too? I know GW would never elaborate on such a theory, but given how the Imperium thinks, it does seem to be an idea.

The Imperium is not and has never been racist. It's one of the only progressive things about them. It's not because they're trying to be liberals suddenly it's because the concept of race in general has disappeared. We're talking about a galaxy where Aliens and witches exist.

**DeffDred**

KamikazeCanuck wrote:
Grey Templar wrote:

The actual human population of Nocturne has light skin.

That's stated flat out somehwere?

Nightlords novels. Blonde hair is seen as extremely rare on Nocturn too.

**KamikazeCanuck**

DeffDred wrote:
KamikazeCanuck wrote:
Grey Templar wrote:

The actual human population of Nocturne has light skin.

That's stated flat out somehwere?

Nightlords novels. Blonde hair is seen as extremely rare on Nocturn too.

That's lame. There's no Negro-Marines then. Hopefully that's not offensive, you know what I mean.