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Fragile wrote:

 Beerfiend wrote:

Fragile wrote:

 Beerfiend wrote:
Does anyone have an answer as to whether Abaddon has Rage and Counter-attack, due to MoK in his "all four" Chaos Mark ?

Why would he not ?

Because it doesn't say Rage or Counter-attack in his profile at all? o.O

And if he does have those, that means he makes between 7-13 attacks on a charge, 6-12 if charged.

Is that not a good enough reason to ask for clarification? lol

Not really... since you stated the basic rule in your question. He has the MoK, as well as the rest, therefore he gets any benefit of the MoK, which is rage and counterattack. On a charge he has 9-13 attacks, and 8-12 being charged.

I think you're misunderstand me here .. I'm just asking for confirmation, not disputing it or misunderstanding it lol. But, thank you for the response.

Also .. how would it be 9-13 and 8-12, and not 7-13 and 6-12? He has A4, +2 from Rage charge, +1 for 2 CC, which is 7 .. +6 (max) from Daemon weapon. Right? Or am I missing something else O.o

Charge, 4 +2rage, +1 CC = 7. +2-6 from Daemon weapon if you dont roll a 1,

Fragile wrote:
Charge, 4 +2rage, +1 CC = 7. +2-6 from Daemon weapon if you dont roll a 1,

Ah yes, but he can choose to attack with the Talons ;P

So 7 attacks if no Daemon weapon, ie between 7-13

Sorry, that's what I meant, but described it poorly.

In short, hes a beast.

In short, hes a beast.

Which amount to almost nothing in the face of Necron Overlord with MSS. If only he has an ability to always pass ALL sorts of Ld tests, then he'd be an uber-HQ, but that is wishful thinking of me.

Time to return my Iron Warriors from their cryogenic sleep.

 MarshallDin wrote:

In short, hes a beast.

Which amount to almost nothing in the face of Necron Overlord with MSS. If only he has an ability to always pass ALL sorts of Ld tests, then he'd be an uber-HQ, but that is wishful thinking of me.

Time to return my Iron Warriors from their cryogenic sleep.

MSS are so overrated its not even funny. The Overlord would be dead before the MSS could even take effect.

Fragile wrote:

 MarshallDin wrote:

In short, hes a beast.

Which amount to almost nothing in the face of Necron Overlord with MSS. If only he has an ability to always pass ALL sorts of Ld tests, then he'd be an uber-HQ, but that is wishful thinking of me.

Time to return my Iron Warriors from their cryogenic sleep.

MSS are so overrated its not even funny. The Overlord would be dead before the MSS could even take effect.

Perhaps. Isn't there a new Chaos rule though that would require Abaddon to always Challange when in an assault? Or is that only when assaulting Space Marines? If so, then I imagine that more often than not he'll be in B2B with a 'cron model with MSS.


-Yad

If I charge you, I will make MSS go off before doing the challenge. WIth about 10 AP2 attacks coming at you, that is alot of damage potential to deal with.

Fragile wrote:
If I charge you, I will make MSS go off before doing the challenge. WIth about 10 AP2 attacks coming at you, that is alot of damage potential to deal with.

+ Let the AC take the first round challenge
+ Wipe out the cron lords squad with the don
+ Let the rest of the chaos squad deal with the cron lord on round 2 as the don ducks the challenge
+ ?????
+ Profit!

 Beerfiend wrote:

Fragile wrote:
Charge, 4 +2rage, +1 CC = 7. +2-6 from Daemon weapon if you dont roll a 1,

Ah yes, but he can choose to attack with the Talons ;P

So 7 attacks if no Daemon weapon, ie between 7-13

Sorry, that's what I meant, but described it poorly.

It's 8-14 with the DW. On a 1 you take a wound and lose WS but still get the attack. IIRC

Fragile wrote:
If I charge you, I will make MSS go off before doing the challenge. WIth about 10 AP2 attacks coming at you, that is alot of damage potential to deal with.

Got it, so Abaddon would be safe from MSS only on the turn in which the Chaos player initiates the charge. Which assumes that Abaddon would not be in B2B before the Chaos player issues the Challenge. As Bausk mentions though, having another Champion in the squad with Abaddon would take care of the lone MSS nicely.

-Yad

Yad wrote:

Fragile wrote:
If I charge you, I will make MSS go off before doing the challenge. WIth about 10 AP2 attacks coming at you, that is alot of damage potential to deal with.

Got it, so Abaddon would be safe from MSS only on the turn in which the Chaos player initiates the charge. Which assumes that Abaddon would not be in B2B before the Chaos player issues the Challenge. As Bausk mentions though, having another Champion in the squad with Abaddon would take care of the lone MSS nicely.

-Yad

The don eats squads, its one of his many talents. Leading successful crusades however is not.

Fragile wrote:
If I charge you, I will make MSS go off before doing the challenge. WIth about 10 AP2 attacks coming at you, that is alot of damage potential to deal with.

Am, go read MSS. They don't make you attack yourself with your full compliment of attacks, they make you do D3+1 automatic hits against yourself, so no 10 attacks.

 Bausk wrote:

Yad wrote:

Fragile wrote:
If I charge you, I will make MSS go off before doing the challenge. WIth about 10 AP2 attacks coming at you, that is alot of damage potential to deal with.

Got it, so Abaddon would be safe from MSS only on the turn in which the Chaos player initiates the charge. Which assumes that Abaddon would not be in B2B before the Chaos player issues the Challenge. As Bausk mentions though, having another Champion in the squad with Abaddon would take care of the lone MSS nicely.

-Yad

The don eats squads, its one of his many talents. Leading successful crusades however is not.

-Yad


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Godless-Mimicry wrote:

Fragile wrote:
If I charge you, I will make MSS go off before doing the challenge. WIth about 10 AP2 attacks coming at you, that is alot of damage potential to deal with.

Am, go read MSS. They don't make you attack yourself with your full compliment of attacks, they make you do D3+1 automatic hits against yourself, so no 10 attacks.

I think you missed his point entirely. On the Chaos players turn if he assaults with Abaddon and doesn't get into B2B with a model armed with MSS he can choose to have the MSS go first and then the Challenge. MSS would likely take control of some scrub and Abaddon would then be free to rampage through the rest of the 'cron squad. That's where those attacks would come from.

-Yad

D3 attacks, not D3+1

 Godless-Mimicry wrote:

Fragile wrote:
If I charge you, I will make MSS go off before doing the challenge. WIth about 10 AP2 attacks coming at you, that is alot of damage potential to deal with.

Am, go read MSS. They don't make you attack yourself with your full compliment of attacks, they make you do D3+1 automatic hits against yourself, so no 10 attacks.

You completely misunderstood the post you replied to.

Edit.. Yad covered it above.

Fragile wrote:
Charge, 4 +2rage, +1 CC = 7. +2-6 from Daemon weapon if you dont roll a 1,

The claw is listed as a specialist weapon, so doesn't that mean no +1 for the extra CC weapon?

Also, I noticed that the way the entry reads now, Abby no longer gets to count his x2 strength from the claw on the attacks from the Daemon weapon. In the codex entry, each weapon has its own profile, with +1 Strength for the daemon weapon, and x2 Strength with the lightning claw.

Both weapons are specialist

 Beerfiend wrote:



Also, anyone happen to know the answer to my edited question, does Abaddon have Rage and Counterattack from MoK? Would he really have between 7-13 attacks on a charge? It clearly states that he has all of the Marks, but the only benefits that MoK has to offer now (since it's no longer +1 Attack) are Rage and Counterattack, however nothing about Rage/Counterattack are shown in his profile.. Are we to assume this is kind of like a Typhus' Manreaper = Force Plaguebringer b/c he has MoN type rule (which btw no longer exists, sadface) ?

It's an interesting question. The rules are not present in his Wargear and Special Rules section and under the description for Marks of Chaos they are considered to have already been included "IN ITS PROFILE".

Exact wording:

"When a Mark of Chaos is listed in a unit's special rules, its effects will have already been taken into account in its profile, where applicable."

But does the "profile" part of that sentence refer to his stat line alone, or all special rules & wargear? If it refers to the characters entire entry, then he does not benefit from Rage & Counter-attack. If it refers only to his statline, then he should gain those rules as per Mark of Khorne.



It appears based on discussion in this thread and a review of the rules that Abaddon would not gain any stats when transforming into a Daemon Prince, as they are never given the benefits of a Mark, merely made into a Daemon Prince dedicated to one of the four Gods. Because he has all four Marks of Chaos the only interpretation here can be for him to benefit from all 4 subsets at once. However I expect this might be FAQ'd, and to me I wouldn't mind if Abaddon could never become a Daemon Prince as it goes against the fluff. Of course I would want him to reroll Spawndom results as well...

Yad wrote:

Fragile wrote:
If I charge you, I will make MSS go off before doing the challenge. WIth about 10 AP2 attacks coming at you, that is alot of damage potential to deal with.

Got it, so Abaddon would be safe from MSS only on the turn in which the Chaos player initiates the charge. Which assumes that Abaddon would not be in B2B before the Chaos player issues the Challenge. As Bausk mentions though, having another Champion in the squad with Abaddon would take care of the lone MSS nicely.

-Yad

This is always going to be the case in 6th because any unit to which Abaddon might likely attached now comes with a prepaid Champion, including Terminators and Cult Elites. You may run into exceptions if someone joins him to like.. Mutilators. . or something equally weird, but for all normal infantry types there will always be an extra champion around that Abaddon can hurl into the meatgrinder in order to save himself. Sounds Chaos-y.

"FOR CHAOSS!!"

"Yeah, sure. Go jump on that Vortex Grenade for me."

"FOR THE DARK GODSS!!!"

*Whistling as he walks up the ramp into his Land Raider and drives away*