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2013/01/04 21:15:09
Subject: In praise of "How to make Wargames Terrain". Will we ever see it's like again?
Aerethan wrote: While I love those books, in the age of the internet they are rather obsolete. All of that information can be found on either youtube or terragenesis.
Ditto.
2013/01/04 21:19:21
Subject: In praise of "How to make Wargames Terrain". Will we ever see it's like again?
Aerethan wrote: While I love those books, in the age of the internet they are rather obsolete. All of that information can be found on either youtube or terragenesis.
Ditto.
True, but some people would rather work from a book than youtube. For instance, similar info could be found on the internet for most of the WI articles, but people still buy it. Now would GW ever make one again would be another question.
2013/01/04 21:23:29
Subject: In praise of "How to make Wargames Terrain". Will we ever see it's like again?
I feel like there are so many awesome WIP blogs on the internet, the books simply are not needed. I can find amazing techniques everywhere... but it does require someone to be very well-versed on the wargaming internet presence.
I do feel like a smart person who has skill at converting could make a book like this and get it published. It will be tricky though if they have to not use copyrighted modeling parts and have to keep it to scratch-building terrain from plasticard and such.
I do think there is appeal to coffee table books where you learn techniques through thumbing through a paper book as well as others seeing a nice book to get others interested.
I would pay for an e-book if someone released 'How to scratchbuild a wizard tower' or 'how to scratchbuild a scrap tank' which game materials lists, measurements and step by step instructions.
Basically a slightly more detailed version of people's 'build threads' right now.
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2013/01/04 21:27:24
Subject: In praise of "How to make Wargames Terrain". Will we ever see it's like again?
Aerethan wrote: While I love those books, in the age of the internet they are rather obsolete. All of that information can be found on either youtube or terragenesis.
Ditto.
True, but some people would rather work from a book than youtube. For instance, similar info could be found on the internet for most of the WI articles, but people still buy it. Now would GW ever make one again would be another question.
I much prefer paper myself. I am a bit of a techie by day at work - and when I get home, I enjoy grabbing a book or magazine to read as opposed to messing with tablets or computers. I still use those a lot - but will always buy the physical copy when given the chance.
The other issue of course is that online information is only as consistent as the person is willing to maintain them for (whether person is an individual or a company). Dozens of tutorials which were on the GW website dissappeared when they switched from their old version to the new. I have seen hundreds of sites disappear for a variety of reasons with all their stuff going with them.
Sites like the Wayback machine often do not archive images - so while you may be able to salvage text...much of the good stuff is gone. I back up favorite sites and threads on a regular basis - but now with a few terrabytes on my local network, finding a specific article or image can take a significant amount of time.
2013/01/04 21:45:47
Subject: In praise of "How to make Wargames Terrain". Will we ever see it's like again?
nkelsch wrote: I feel like there are so many awesome WIP blogs on the internet, the books simply are not needed. I can find amazing techniques everywhere... but it does require someone to be very well-versed on the wargaming internet presence...
...I would pay for an e-book if someone released 'How to scratchbuild a wizard tower' or 'how to scratchbuild a scrap tank' which game materials lists, measurements and step by step instructions.
Basically a slightly more detailed version of people's 'build threads' right now.
I agree, the fact that you can find all-and-more on the internet (something I don't deny) does not make a book any less useful, or supplant it in the hands of those of us who:
-Want a text at the workbench
-Like the easy-to-navigate-ability of a well assembled how-to book
-Want to have all the basics in one tome
-Simply like books.
As for the kind of e-books you mention, there are a few.
Matikishi is someone with a fairly long and well established web-presence who's doing something like that. How-to's for projects at a very low price!
http://www.matakishi.com/apps/webstore/ He makes some pretty cool terrain. Nothing too fancy, but you can check out his site to see if it's the kind of thing you would want to buy and build.
He's got some similar smaller free how-to projects on Wagames vault as well.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2013/01/04 21:47:32
Even if the internet were to collapse under the weight of all the porn and gangnam videos, I doubt GW would make another of the books. They now prefer it when you simply buy the terrain directly from them rather than showing you how to make it. Something about teaching a man to fish is bad when you're the smelly fishmonger...
2013/01/04 22:37:00
Subject: In praise of "How to make Wargames Terrain". Will we ever see it's like again?
Oh, I am pretty sure there will be a 3rd terrain book coming from GW in the next year or two. However, it won't be anything like the last two. As opposed to showing how to use found items to create something from scratch - it will show how to paint the items they sell, combined with some kitbashing...with other items that they sell. All built on top of boards...that they sell.
In the mean time, you can still get a lot of great ideas from modelling books. Model railroad terrain, scale model dioramas and of course historical gaming books are still available and many of them are great.
For fantasy and sci-fi settings, you do need to make some adjustments - but the core principles are in place, and you can take those and expand them out to create great looking terrain, buildings, models and figures for use in gaming regardless of the specific genre you are gaming in.
2013/01/04 22:55:00
Subject: In praise of "How to make Wargames Terrain". Will we ever see it's like again?
Great thread. This is an issue I'm quite passionate about, but as others have said, I think the internet does a great job in the "fight" against plastic terrain.
Equally though, I would also buy a well written/laid out "How to Make Terrain" book, because I love books.
I won't criticise anyone buying plastic kits (mainly because I've bought a few myself), but making your own terrain is so much more rewarding. I've already been further inspired by some of the links in this thread (see the one in my signature for a great dakka article on hills).
That's some memories there. My brother got me that red book for Christmas one year, and I've been hooked on terrain making ever since.
I wish I kept it, I think I ebayed my entire stock of GW literature when I got out of the hobby for the first time.
Tons of great guys on youtube for terrain inspiration. In addition to Terranscapes already mentioned there's Terrainaholic and my personal fave, the Kamloopian.
That Terrain for Hippos site is great, thanks for the link! Really down-to-earth practical stuff.
Advanced Terrain: Indestructible, pre-painted 28mm games terrain.
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2013/01/11 22:05:31
Subject: In praise of "How to make Wargames Terrain". Will we ever see it's like again?
warboss wrote:Even if the internet were to collapse under the weight of all the porn and gangnam videos, I doubt GW would make another of the books. They now prefer it when you simply buy the terrain directly from them rather than showing you how to make it. Something about teaching a man to fish is bad when you're the smelly fishmonger...
This.
GW wants their gamers to have less terrain making skills rather than more. People who can make their own terrain don't need expensive GW kits.
2013/01/11 23:25:57
Subject: In praise of "How to make Wargames Terrain". Will we ever see it's like again?
Truth is, you don't need these books. When it comes to terrain making guides wargamers are able to tap into the expansive amount of guides intended for the model railway hobby.
2013/01/11 23:26:03
Subject: In praise of "How to make Wargames Terrain". Will we ever see it's like again?
The last GW terrain I bought was the old 2 pack foam hill set about 10 years ago. Some of the new kits for 40k look fine for display boards and such, but the generic pieces like hills and woods are pretty mediocre.
For me, the only terrain I'd really buy as a premade piece or kit would be army specific pieces, like the Empire buildings they have. Sadly I play Elves of 2 flavors, and neither get any real love from GW. GF9 does make a few high elves pieces though.
If GW put out a tower that doubled as Dark Elves and Dark Eldar, I'd buy it in a heartbeat. A double kit is the only way I see that happening, not that I play Dark Eldar.
"Bryan always said that if the studio ever had to mix with the manufacturing and sales part of the business it would destroy the studio. And I have to say – he wasn’t wrong there! ... It’s become the promotions department of a toy company." -- Rick Priestly
2013/01/12 01:12:04
Subject: In praise of "How to make Wargames Terrain". Will we ever see it's like again?
Glorioski wrote: Truth is, you don't need these books. When it comes to terrain making guides wargamers are able to tap into the expansive amount of guides intended for the model railway hobby.
Maybe...
I used to read Model Railroad magazines and books, but like scale model diorama instructions, it's really building for a very different purpose.
There is of course lots of overlap, but Model railroading stresses fine detail over durrabiltity. They are not likely to stand up to wargaming. I also found the instructions to be more fiddly and time consuming than I'd like for my projects.
On the other hand wargaming terrain is made to stand up to repeated handling and at least from the GW books, the entire visual style is different.
I know model railroaders who build terrain to be more durable than fine detailed (but often these same people have 4-6 layouts of varying complexity). They have portable layouts (one even has a modular portable layout) that have to be durable and will often sacrifice some detail for it.
The basics of terrain making are the same, in either case.
I'm OVER 50 (and so far over everyone's BS, too).
Old enough to know better, young enough to not give a ****.
That is not dead which can eternal lie ...
... and yet, with strange aeons, even death may die.
2013/01/12 02:00:02
Subject: Re:In praise of "How to make Wargames Terrain". Will we ever see it's like again?
I think GWs terrain kits of the last few years have been....and watch this word - stunning. Yup.
Here is why without hyperbole:
A. ease of use - I kitbashed 6 of the basilicaum, manifactorum, sanctum kits into - 9 GW standard kits and my own variations - some were a little tricky to "gel" together but overall they were easy and dam fun!
B. extra "extras!" - I made 9 good size buildings from 6 GW kits. Can you kitbash it that easy with other kits? Hmmm?
The GW realm of battle gameboard hate really did take off on dakka - noother site had it (pathetic) - pretty sad and reactionary imo. If you like them and have the money then its not anyones opinon really - except how you change 'em.
However, some people want to build their own terrain.
Maybe I want to fight over an ancient Antiquity-like city. Games Workshop don't make Greek city kits. I could either turn to the internet, though the articles are of varying quality and it may take some time to look for a good generic one and if I don't have a printer then I"ll risk getting my computer damaged, a model railroad tutorial though I don't think many railroads go through Greek acropoli or a good book designed exactly for wargames terrain.
The book was great. I hope another company makes something as good.
2013/01/12 15:35:33
Subject: Re:In praise of "How to make Wargames Terrain". Will we ever see it's like again?
I think GWs terrain kits of the last few years have been....and watch this word - stunning. Yup.
Here is why without hyperbole:
Spoiler:
A. ease of use - I kitbashed 6 of the basilicaum, manifactorum, sanctum kits into - 9 GW standard kits and my own variations - some were a little tricky to "gel" together but overall they were easy and dam fun!
B. extra "extras!" - I made 9 good size buildings from 6 GW kits. Can you kitbash it that easy with other kits? Hmmm?
The GW realm of battle gameboard hate really did take off on dakka - noother site had it (pathetic) - pretty sad and reactionary imo. If you like them and have the money then its not anyones opinon really - except how you change 'em.
Look, the White Knights are never going to agree with the "Haters" and honestly I CBA.
Enkoy the logic and feel free to.....
Automatically Appended Next Post: My point is:
I made 40k/Warahmmer scenery out of Coco-pops boxes/strophone/cardboard and massive amounts of PVA too back in 92/93.
I'm not some scenery spanker, all Im saying is, the nostalgia and "Gee Dubbla hates terrain" gak is misplaced.
Jesus lads, their scenery kits are arguably THE best value kits you can buy.
25 aegis and 2 bunkers for 110? decent!
Meh Im off to bed, NN
Settle down my friend,
No one is debating that the GW kits are extremely well made, easy to use and maybe even a "good deal" as far as quality purchasable terrain is used. If you read the OP completely, I give some pretty high praise to the GW kits. However, As the gentleman above me says, many folks just like to make their own terrain, especially those who don't want their terrain to look just like everybody elses.
Our main gripe is that GW used to make books for their customers that taught them how to do it themeselves, and GW used to encourage alot of other DIY projects. That was something that alot of people really enjoyed about GW and has mostly passed away. I don't think that nostalgia about that is at all misplaced.
No one says "GW hates terrain", just that GW seems to have very little interest in helping you make your own anymore unless it's based on one of their kits.
