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Note: This is not a thread about actually making wargames terrain.

As I began to make my most recent gaming board, I dug out my copies of "How To Make Wargames Terrain",

Both the First (1996)...


....and Second (2003) versions.


I have always received good terrain advice at online forums (Dakka, TMP, Terragenesis), and there are some sites like Necromundicon that have really improved my terrain building and are a constant source or inspiration, but when in the workspace trying to figure out a given effect or digging through your boxes of Terrain bits/supplies, I've yet to find anything quite as useful as these two books.

The blue book is really a bible for making terrain. Though it's 9 years old now, it still seems completely up to date.
The red book seems somewhat primitive by today's standards, but it's not only nostalgia that keeps me going back. It still contains many techniques and models that look great today and even has more detailed descriptions of certain techniques than the blue.

Neither book is written for the super advanced modeler who engages in the types of techniques covered by books on model railroading and military dioramas, but for making terrain as good as what you see at a GW bunker the blue book has you covered. Except that it's out of print....

Which leads me to the second half of my title. Will we ever see a book like this again?
There have been several non GW books to feature sections on wargaming terrain, but nothing as extensive as what is in the GW books or as directly aimed at straitforward serviceable terrain rather than diorama quality masterworks. Also the few other books on Wargaming terrain are also either out of print or PDF only.

Unfortunately I think the answer is no.
The 2003 Version just predates the proliferation/expansion of GW's own plastic terrain kits. Except for GW tools, paints and miniatures there are very few GW products in the book and there is lots of advice on the book regarding purchasable "at your local model shop" supplies that GW has never produced.

Looking through the book I realized just how many of the creative projects in these books are now covered by GW plastic kits. Styrofoam ruins and urban cityscapes are now covered by "Cities of death" buildings. Steeped hills and trees are sold as kits (though to be fair they have been in the past also in a limited selection.). Fantasy architecture is covered by tower, manor, graveyard, and other kits. It looks like GW has no need to make another book on terrain making because now they make it all for you.

I'm not really griping about the proliferation of plastic kits. I think they are pretty cool looking, very well executed (in most cases), ripe for conversion, and make it easy for the non-terrain-enthusiast to put together a good looking table. What really disappoints me is that I think GW did such a great job with their terrain books and I'd love to see them continue, but it looks like they may be a thing of the past.

Any other fond memories of GW Terrain books or opinions on whether they will ever return?

Those books no longer fit into the broader picture of what GW wants to see on tables. Instead you should buy-buy-buy their terrain kits.

It's shame really, as both books have great bits and bobs in them.

I got the blue book from my friend. I loved it.

Unfortunately it probably won't be published again - why make a book on something that you can sell a kit for?

I don't see GW releasing another book like that, but there's always a chance that one of those other companies out there - Secret Weapon or a historical gaming magazine - could release something similar.

I mean, you frankly don't always know what GW will do so I wouldn't rule anything out. They might put out something showing how they convert up their own terrain though. There are similar WD articles once in a while.

I have the blue book and have used it in several projects. Full of inspiration. In fact, I built this http://www.dakkadakka.com/gallery/120704-Rohan%20House.html?m=2 using the instructions it provided.

But GW seem to think that we just want to buy plastic kits and a RoB board. If anything it is reducing the great potential there is for original looking terrain.

If they did release this book again, it'd encourage you to build terrain from scratch, but ensuring you use official Citadel Steel Rules and Citadel Markers to mark out Citadel Foamboard (or Finefoam), Citadel Plasticard, before you place them on your Citadel Plywood base. The end result would be thorougly disappointing.

I have both of those books as well as the rest of the GW “how to paint series” all in all they are good books for idea’s and inspiration…
I miss the big GW catalogs too… the hardback ones were great, I think the last actual catalog was 2010?

Heh, I've still got my Specialist Games catalogue from 2005, now that's a tease today!

Not a book on its own, but I Love the terrain building articles in PP's No Quarter. All scratch built stuff as they don't make any terrain kits, but they do always seem to find a way to squeeze some of their bitz into every project.

Just recently threw out a couple of those giant phone book bit catalogs from several years. Nice, but were taking up space : / They really lost their purpose when the bit orders went away.

I don't think we will see anything like the terrain book or even the masterclass painting guides any time soon. GW has adopted a paint by the numbers approach and is sticking with that horrible 1 - 2 - 3 picture approach in the WDs. The painting articles use to be the main reason why I picked up WD. Ironically the best painting article was for the Dreadfleet game. Yes the game was weak, but bits and tips in that article I used on a bunch of stuff.

While I love those books, in the age of the internet they are rather obsolete. All of that information can be found on either youtube or terragenesis.

I still think there is a really big hole left by the absence of those books. Of course anyone can look things up on the internet, but sometimes you want something that is a suitable starting and reference point to anyone coming into the wargaming hobby, and without spending hours going through dead-ends and not so good articles on the internet.

If you're listening then PP/Mantic, or any number of other miniature makers, please go ahead and make something!

Why does it have to be a minis company that makes the book?

If someone did their homework and got articles sorted and written, a kickstarter for it would likely pay for the printing costs. I'd try it if I had the time.

 AduroT wrote:
Not a book on its own, but I Love the terrain building articles in PP's No Quarter. All scratch built stuff as they don't make any terrain kits, but they do always seem to find a way to squeeze some of their bitz into every project.

I wonder if they might compile them into a book for the wargames market. There's obviously a gap in the industry now for that sort of thing...

 Aerethan wrote:
Why does it have to be a minis company that makes the book?

If someone did their homework and got articles sorted and written, a kickstarter for it would likely pay for the printing costs. I'd try it if I had the time.

That is an interesting idea. If I was any good at terrain stuff I'd steal it...

 Aerethan wrote:
While I love those books, in the age of the internet they are rather obsolete. All of that information can be found on either youtube or terragenesis.

I don't think so at all. I still think that when you're working in the shop on a project, unless you have a computer setup right there nothing beats a book for having the info you want right at your fingertips. Sure seems better than risking getting your laptop/desktop/tablet accidentally painted.

Of course at least a little of this is some of this is probably just my old-school love of a paper book...

 scipio.au wrote:
There's obviously a gap in the industry now for that sort of thing...

Gap in the market? I think any potential gaps in the market have been filled quite well. I see no reason for other terrain books when we have these.

 H.B.M.C. wrote:


Gap in the market? I think any potential gaps in the market have been filled quite well. I see no reason for other terrain books when we have these.

I'm hoping that's sarcasm that I'm just not getting first thing this morning.

 H.B.M.C. wrote:

 scipio.au wrote:
There's obviously a gap in the industry now for that sort of thing...

Gap in the market? I think any potential gaps in the market have been filled quite well. I see no reason for other terrain books when we have these.

Sarcasm...meter...through the roof...

The books are excellent, don't get me wrong.

But there are better accessable places on the web for better terraign.

1. http://www.terranscapes.com/ Almost a cult in its own right, there are super examples and some really great artists involved over here.

2. http://matakishi.com/ The first place I always go for inspiration and guidence on new boards/ projects

3. http://www.youtube.com/user/RubbishInRubbishOut?feature=watch An excellent program set with lots of good projects, pluse he is pretty entertaining.

There are others, of course. Beast of War, Miniwargaming.com, and RHQ, but these three are who I dig hard on for some of the stuff I''ve made. Like the old saying goes, GW just opend the door, I walked in and closed it after they started doing dumb stuff. Move on from them, and branch out, because quite fankly- there are better out there.

And once again GW's smaller brands continue to put out a better product than the main company. FW's model masterclass books (volume 1 and volume 2) both have extensive step by step directions for making high-quality terrain, including the use of all sorts of non-GW products. Sure, it's probably not the most durable stuff for everyday gaming (though IIRC the Vraks board in volume 1 is open for use at GW HQ), but I imagine a lot of the techniques could be used outside of diorama building.

(And of course the painting guides are the same, very detailed, and not afraid to recommend non-GW products when necessary. They're well worth the cost if you care at all about painting.)

 H.B.M.C. wrote:

 scipio.au wrote:
There's obviously a gap in the industry now for that sort of thing...

Gap in the market? I think any potential gaps in the market have been filled quite well. I see no reason for other terrain books when we have these.

That would be true if only the things you linked had a reasonable number of skulls on them. GW's pre-made plastic scenery is way too stingy on the skulls.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Peregrine wrote:
And once again GW's smaller brands continue to put out a better product than the main company. FW's model masterclass books (volume 1 and volume 2) both have extensive step by step directions for making high-quality terrain, including the use of all sorts of non-GW products. Sure, it's probably not the most durable stuff for everyday gaming (though IIRC the Vraks board in volume 1 is open for use at GW HQ), but I imagine a lot of the techniques could be used outside of diorama building.

(And of course the painting guides are the same, very detailed, and not afraid to recommend non-GW products when necessary. They're well worth the cost if you care at all about painting.)

I may well purchase those. I'm hoping to make another FW order before the end of the year....

 Grot 6 wrote:
The books are excellent, don't get me wrong.

But there are better accessable places on the web for better terraign.

1. http://www.terranscapes.com/ Almost a cult in its own right, there are super examples and some really great artists involved over here.

2. http://matakishi.com/ The first place I always go for inspiration and guidence on new boards/ projects

3. http://www.youtube.com/user/RubbishInRubbishOut?feature=watch An excellent program set with lots of good projects, pluse he is pretty entertaining.

There are others, of course. Beast of War, Miniwargaming.com, and RHQ, but these three are who I dig hard on for some of the stuff I''ve made.

Thanks for those! I'm familiar with Matakisihi, but I'd not seen the others. I'll check them out.

I still maintain that a dead tree product (wouldn't have to be from GW) with standard techniques, and the ability to use away from a computer is a useful product for beginners and as a reference for more experienced builders and is not yet obsolete even with better and more advanced information online.

On a small tangent...
As for "better" terrain, I'm actually kind of ambivalent about that. Alot of the really amazing stuff I see on Terragenesis and other sites (and I'd assume the FW books) has way more effort involved than I'm interested in investing. I, and I assume many others, who would be interested in a terrain book would be looking for ways to make sturdy and effective terrain that doesn't require massive investment of time or money. Something that the GW books were pretty good at providing. When I look online for inspiration, I'm usually just looking for inspiration. The only tips I find useful are those that lend themselves to the kind of building that I mention as opposed to masterclass level diorama techniques.

 BrookM wrote:
Those books no longer fit into the broader picture of what GW wants to see on tables. Instead you should buy-buy-buy their terrain kits.

It's shame really, as both books have great bits and bobs in them.

Exactly.

I have the blue book and it is, as said, a bible for functional terrain building projects.

Fortunately the internet has stepped into the breach for giving this kind of advice.

I have the blue book, it is brilliant. Very sad to see it go out of print.

This is everything those books are x1000:

http://www.terragenesis.co.uk

Why would you need such a book in this day and age of an internet filled with such info?


Not to mention if GW did release new versions of those books it would be met with massive cries of "GW is evil for trying to sell me a book full of stuff I can find on-line", etc., etc.

Here is another good internet source: http://terrainforhippos.blogspot.com/. Great ideas and step-by-step instructions.

 Gitkikka wrote:
Here is another good internet source: http://terrainforhippos.blogspot.com/. Great ideas and step-by-step instructions.

That's a great site. I've never seen a site where a comic book hippo clarifies each step of the building process. Absolutely delightfull!
I don't build/game historical, but I'll be looking there again.

Thanks for the heads up!

 CT GAMER wrote:
Why would you need such a book in this day and age of an internet filled with such info?

Because it's sometimes easier to have a paper copy than to have to keep looking at something online? Because you want to have the pretty pictures? I know a major part of why I bought the FW books was because they're nice books, even if I could have eventually found most of the techniques explained online somewhere for free.

Those are great books. I remeber when I started gaming in the mid 90s I picked up the red terrain book. I loved looking through it.

I could see GW make another terrain book, but it would probably focus on painting and converting their existing terrain kits, rather than scratchbuilding.