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20 of them kitted out with sonic blasters and blastmasters icon of excess and march them upfield behind a meatwall of cultists you get a cover save but the enemy doesn't march them into range stand still and let rip it will be like getting shot by a 30 man ork mob only with BS4 plus with 6inch movement you have an 18inch range not fantastic but with carefull placement it will be good enough the alternative is 2 ten man squads again kitted out with sonic and blastmasters icon of excess onece again place them behind a cultist meatshield then have them leapfrog one unit stays static and shoots the other moves forward then vice versa

That unit is closing the bones of 500pts though, and still has to stay stationary to be effective. If you were going to invest that much anyway, I'd go with Huron to Infiltrate them into range so this becomes less of an issue.

 Godless-Mimicry wrote:

Puscifer wrote:

 Godless-Mimicry wrote:

Thulsa Doom wrote:
Trying different Noise Marine Combos here:


6 Noise Marines - (Champ w/ Siren, 5 Sonic Blasters, Icon, Rhino) - 207

10 Noise Marines - (Champ w/ Siren, 1 BlastMaster, Rhino) - 260

8 Noise Marines - (Champ w/ Siren, 4 Sonic Basters, Rhino) - 208

and thoughts on a Build for this unit? That is cost effective?

Why is you think the Icon is best placed on the smallest unit only, where it gives the least returns?

I personally don't like any of those configs, as there is a conflict of roles in each. The first as explained above is trying to stay alive but is not taking enough numbers, the second is trying to work at a distance but has a gun with an 8" range in it, and the last is in conflict with itself over whether it is a static or dynamic unit.

The only two configs I would take are 10 dudes with Blasters and a Blastmaster in a Rhino (static supression), or 5 dudes with Doom Siren in a Rhino (Blasters optional, used to suicide run to clear objectives).

Totally agree with you on the 10 NM build you have suggested, but the suicide squad is a total waste of points and you will see a very poor return from your investment. Units that small will just get wiped out very quickly.

Aside from having to pop the Rhino first before they can even touch them, and with first turn they can be almost in position already, this is simply not true. MSU is still incredibly popular on the tournament scene, and is still winning tournaments all over the world, something that wouldn't be possible if small units died as easily as you say. They are easy to kill, but it takes some dedicated firepower.

Plus there's two more important things here; suicide squads are meant to die, you are not meant to care it they die, and if the opponent is dedicating fire to killing them, then its not going into something more valuable to you. Secondly, and more importantly, to be good at 40k you can't be afraid to lose units. If we were all the build our lists based only on units that are very hard to kill, there wouldn't be much in all of our armies, as 40k is a game of death where most things die easily enough on the grand scale of things.

I think its a case of we play our armies differently.

I dislike the idea of suicide squads and much prefer getting a return on the points spent for a unit.

I can see exactly where you are coming from though, its just not my style of play.

You've made some great points.

Tthe only unit in the codex that is making me consider my MON restriction is the noise marines. Ignore cover is one of the most powerful abilities in this edition(IMO). If they had FW Noise Marines I would be looking into an army of them(don't like the models that much).

I was looking at a unit of either 6 or 12.

6 would be
Option 1: CC unit with doom siren and maybe power weapon in a rhino- Cheap as chips, nothing special here

Option 2: 6 sonic Blasters - nice sized scoring(I would have the lord) unit that can put out a good amount of fire that will ignore cover.

12 man unit: icon of excess(nothing I can see preventing you from throwing the icon on the unit sergeant for those delicious LOS rolls if you are worried about sniping. Not a challenge problem as much on a ranged unit)
8 have sonic blasters, 1 has blast master, 2 have nothing, and the sergeant has a sonic blaster while carrying the icon.

Another is a CC variant of the first one, in this case it would be a random mook with the icon, the sergeant would have a doom siren, gift of mutation and a power weapon. Rest just have CC weapons. Would actually get veterans for this unit.






Against MEQ, still can be handy(see cultists, scouts, fortified terrain, etc). and against anything else it is even better. Against GEQ it just wrecks face as many of them count on cover, orks are losing their cover save will mow them down.

 Super Ready wrote:

 Flavius Infernus wrote:
I'm just going on record saying that fearless troops are always worth a few points more for assault units. Ld 10 is fine until your huge expensive unit gets caught by a dreadknight or wraithlord who kills your character in an unrefusable challenge, then sweeps you out of existence on a single botched Ld test.

You never fail a leadership test when you don't take them.

This is a double-edged sword. Let's say that big nasty charges and knocks out the one Fist in your squad. If the unit is Fearless and doesn't have any other weapons that can hurt that nasty, they can't run away, they're stuck there until they get squished.
I realise this is much less valid with krak grenades, but there are still some enemies that even they can't touch.

Does fearless negate the "our weapons do nothing" rule?

It can't fail if they have fearless

What about 20 CSM with MoS and Fabius Bile's Enhanced Warriors? Wondering if anyone has tried it may not be the best Death Star but would be fun, plus Fabius can go into another unit and make them fearless.

Hargus56 wrote:
What about 20 CSM with MoS and Fabius Bile's Enhanced Warriors? Wondering if anyone has tried it may not be the best Death Star but would be fun, plus Fabius can go into another unit and make them fearless.

How do you think it would fare vs four units of five noise marines with four doom sirens?

Hargus56 wrote:
What about 20 CSM with MoS and Fabius Bile's Enhanced Warriors? Wondering if anyone has tried it may not be the best Death Star but would be fun, plus Fabius can go into another unit and make them fearless.

I was thinking about this one also, especially the way that you get a lot of extra value out of the Enhanced Warrior bonus with a big unit of CSM. If you give your enhanced warriors Mark of Slaanesh, you're essentially getting a unit of str5 noise marines with the CSM special weapon options for the price of regular CSM. You still get the FNP option as well. For assault that should be outstanding.

Then send Bile with another unit of 15+ FNP Slaanesh-marked CSM and the two units combined should perform in assault like two big units of noise marines for 2 points less per model.

And you don't have to take a Slaanesh lord to make them scoring. Fabius Bile is not awesome, but he is competitively priced.

 Flavius Infernus wrote:

Hargus56 wrote:
What about 20 CSM with MoS and Fabius Bile's Enhanced Warriors? Wondering if anyone has tried it may not be the best Death Star but would be fun, plus Fabius can go into another unit and make them fearless.

I was thinking about this one also, especially the way that you get a lot of extra value out of the Enhanced Warrior bonus with a big unit of CSM. If you give your enhanced warriors Mark of Slaanesh, you're essentially getting a unit of str5 noise marines with the CSM special weapon options for the price of regular CSM. You still get the FNP option as well. For assault that should be outstanding.

Then send Bile with another unit of 15+ FNP Slaanesh-marked CSM and the two units combined should perform in assault like two big units of noise marines for 2 points less per model.

And you don't have to take a Slaanesh lord to make them scoring. Fabius Bile is not awesome, but he is competitively priced.

Yep and that S5 unit is just going to be incredibly awesome, could even get a lord and add a 3rd larger CSM unit with Fearless.

Ever considered a 20 man squad with an unmarked sorcerer lvl 3 who rolls on the biomancy table and goes for the one that gives relentless and FnP? Also S5 I5 makes me giggle

 Flavius Infernus wrote:

Hargus56 wrote:
What about 20 CSM with MoS and Fabius Bile's Enhanced Warriors? Wondering if anyone has tried it may not be the best Death Star but would be fun, plus Fabius can go into another unit and make them fearless.

I was thinking about this one also, especially the way that you get a lot of extra value out of the Enhanced Warrior bonus with a big unit of CSM. If you give your enhanced warriors Mark of Slaanesh, you're essentially getting a unit of str5 noise marines with the CSM special weapon options for the price of regular CSM. You still get the FNP option as well. For assault that should be outstanding.

Then send Bile with another unit of 15+ FNP Slaanesh-marked CSM and the two units combined should perform in assault like two big units of noise marines for 2 points less per model.

And you don't have to take a Slaanesh lord to make them scoring. Fabius Bile is not awesome, but he is competitively priced.

if you are going to take bile, you really have to have a large 20man blob. Either 14 points with VotlW CCW and pistol or add a mark to suit. MoK, MoN, MoS all work here. I think slanesh is the best as then you can get the icon which also works well on large units. A battlecannon will ruin your day, but it doesnt cost that much to begin with. If you roll d3 infiltrators you get to see what 20 Str5 init5 fearless marines with 2 base attacks and FNP does to an opponent.

I'm not sold on the blastmaster yet. It's still investing too many points for a single mini battle cannon.

 minigun762 wrote:
I'm not sold on the blastmaster yet. It's still investing too many points for a single mini battle cannon.

really it is 30 points for a AP3 plasmacannon that doesnt overheat. Is that good? I dont think so.

Remember to take into account that the six-man squad will be MUCH luckier on the field.

Slaanesh's favour can have a big game effect

 ArbitorIan wrote:
Remember to take into account that the six-man squad will be MUCH luckier on the field.

Slaanesh's favour can have a big game effect

Agreed. I'm liking a 6 man squad with 5 sonics. Cheap fire support unit that can hold an objective or fire a quad gun.

The blastmaster is more than just an AP 3 plasma cannon, it's a blast weapon that ignores all saves most marines have ( 3+ and cover) and also causes instant death to T4. In the games that I've played so far it's been absolutely devastating especially because it can uproot troops from behind defense lines with ease, something a plasma cannon will never be able to do.

The other thing that is awesome about all the sonic weapons is how they utterly shred light vehicles, 8 sonic blasters won't have much problem with smashing an AV10 vehicle especially since it won't get any sort of cover. This is invaluable against armies like DE where they rely fully upon their cover saves to survive any sort of shooting, sonic blasters also make a mockery of reavers which are pretty annoying most of the time.

I run them all snooty with 8 sonics a blastmaster and the icon. Using Huron I can get them within salvo range on turn one which is always awesome.

Just my 2 cents

Yea combine that with an aegis and you got a unit in place on turn one.