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If I recall the astronacon predates the throne, but the Big E tied it into the throne. Then once more reworked the throne to hold back the damaged web way gate.

Here's a pic from the aforementioned battle:



So yeah, don't want that spilling onto Terra....

Sure we do!

Join the Tau Empire and the greater good, we have cookies .

 Puretide1 wrote:
Join the Tau Empire and the greater good, we have cookies .

I'd sooner die or join Chaos.

Id sooner burn the heritic

 Lord General Cheese wrote:
Id sooner burn the heritic

Agreed - but if the Emperor dies/replaced by an usurper, I'd sooner die fighting apostate Imperial forces or join Chaos.

Fallen Emperor, we who are about to die salute you!
or...
Praise be to Tzeentch!

I will never bow before xenos.

 Tadashi wrote:

 Lord General Cheese wrote:
Id sooner burn the heritic

Agreed - but if the Emperor dies/replaced by an usurper, I'd sooner die fighting apostate Imperial forces or join Chaos.

Fallen Emperor, we who are about to die salute you!
or...
Praise be to Tzeentch!

I will never bow before xenos.

Cause bowing before a Demon god that was everything that the Emperor opposed is SOOOO much better.

Fanatics gotta love em...

 Soo'Vah'Cha wrote:

 Tadashi wrote:

 Lord General Cheese wrote:
Id sooner burn the heritic

Agreed - but if the Emperor dies/replaced by an usurper, I'd sooner die fighting apostate Imperial forces or join Chaos.

Fallen Emperor, we who are about to die salute you!
or...
Praise be to Tzeentch!

I will never bow before xenos.

Cause bowing before a Demon god that was everything that the Emperor opposed is SOOOO much better.

Fanatics gotta love em...

Both the Emperor and the Powers promise more than xenos ever do or ever will. The former would make Man master of the stars...the latter would reward us for our service...and xenos? What do they offer? Slavery. With nothing to show for it but to put themselves above Mankind. Death to the Alien.

Sorry to burst your bubble pal..but its all slaves in the end..just some eat your soul, but good luck with that.

 Soo'Vah'Cha wrote:
Sorry to burst your bubble pal..but its all slaves in the end..just some eat your soul, but good luck with that.

Meh...if I die, the Emperor's psychic powers will protect my soul long enough for it fade into the Warp safely. If he's dead (and replaced by an usurper), I'll take my chances. If he's dead, and the choices are xenos or Chaos - I'll make sure to barter my way back from death or become a Daemon Prince. Death to the Alien.

Kasrkin229 wrote:1). Disbanding of the High Lords of Terra , replaced with Chapter masters of space Marines , having them meet every century to discuss emergency matters - under the watchful eye of the Custodes

Chapter Masters are Generals. They aren't politicians. They aren't trained to handle non-warfare related things, like poverty, resource shortages and political bickering.

Kasrkin229 wrote:2) Formation of the Imperial Army and Fleet , this allowing greater tactical flexibility for Imperial forces .
A) the Attachment of Commissars And Inquisitors ( yes you'd have to train a lot more ) to discourage and prevent corruption of an imperial battle group

Eh, don't have much to say about this.

Kasrkin229 wrote:3) The machine cult is disbanded allowing the rebirth. Of conventional engineering

Congratulations! The Machine Cult is disbanded and the Mechanicum, outraged, secedes from the Imperium. Mars is lost, along with almost every Forgeworld and STC in existence. Unable to produce ammunition, vehicles, body armor or really anything in large amounts, the Imperium is destroyed within weeks.

Kasrkin229 wrote:4) the Minisortium is devised into 9 sectors allowing more effective application of reinforcements and supplies

Eh, don't have much to say about this.

Kasrkin229 wrote:5) The assembly of a New Space Marine legion ( yes Legion ) who's sole purpose is to seek out and destroy heretic units

Where do you get the resources to make such a Legion? How do you ensure it will be loyal? Who do you trust to lead something that powerful?

Kasrkin229 wrote:6) Re writing of imperial doctrine to ally with Tau ad Eldar

A great deal of Imperial Officials, especially Inquisitors, would revolt against the Imperium for officially allying with Xenos. To them, this goes against everything the Imperium stands for.

Kasrkin229 wrote:7) Return of the imperial truth and the collapse of the Ellisarchy

Again, this would lead to the revolt of a great deal of Imperial Officials.

Kasrkin229 wrote:8) reverse engineer and reconstruct the Necron Pylons on Cadia to. Completely resolve the eye of Terror

This is impossible. Not even the Necrons are capable of making more of those pylons. Without the Mechicanum (and even with it), the Imperium wouldn't have a chance of doing this.

 Kasrkin229 wrote:
I've been thinking quite a bit about what could be done to revive the imperium both politically and militarily to revive the imperium.

1). Disbanding of the High Lords of Terra , replaced with Chapter masters of space Marines , having them meet every century to discuss emergency matters - under the watchful eye of the Custodes

For every rational and logical Chapter Master, there are dozens of psychos, lunatics, and megalomaniacs. I certainly wouldn't trust them any more than regular humans.

There is nothing glorious about the Imperium if you are an average joe-shmoe. Your life is the currency that sustains it.

3) The machine cult is disbanded allowing the rebirth. Of conventional engineering

They are a separate Empire in many ways, so they cannot be disbanded. Plus, if they all of a sudden went away, there is no technological basis from which to innovate.

5) The assembly of a New Space Marine legion ( yes Legion ) who's sole purpose is to seek out and destroy heretic units

Yes, until it is inevitably corrupted by the constant exposure to Chaos, and becomes the new rebel force.

6) Re writing of imperial doctrine to ally with Tau ad Eldar

Aliens cannot be trusted. Certainly not the Eldar (they look upon humans with disdain, and wouldn't blink an eye to murder billions of them to save one Eldar life), and probably not the Tau either.

7) Return of the imperial truth and the collapse of the Ellisarchy

Imperial Truth is a lie and contributed to the Heresy. The faith is the only thing that keeps the Imperium together. Lorgar was right, in the 40K setting there is nothing more powerful than faith.

8) reverse engineer and reconstruct the Necron Pylons on Cadia to. Completely resolve the eye of Terror

The Imperium struggles to reverse engineer human tech, much less Necron technology.

 Omegus wrote:

6) Re writing of imperial doctrine to ally with Tau ad Eldar

Aliens cannot be trusted. Certainly not the Eldar (they look upon humans with disdain, and wouldn't blink an eye to murder billions of them to save one Eldar life), and probably not the Tau either.

If anything, it's the Imperium that can't be trusted
Alaitoc had a NAP with the Imperium that lasted some good thousand years until the Imperium decided to attack them and break it (the Beelze War).

 Polvilhovoador wrote:

 Omegus wrote:

6) Re writing of imperial doctrine to ally with Tau ad Eldar

Aliens cannot be trusted. Certainly not the Eldar (they look upon humans with disdain, and wouldn't blink an eye to murder billions of them to save one Eldar life), and probably not the Tau either.

If anything, it's the Imperium that can't be trusted
Alaitoc had a NAP with the Imperium that lasted some good thousand years until the Imperium decided to attack them and break it (the Beelze War).

Then reign in those idiotic corsairs and rangers raising merry hell along the Imperial frontier. You can't expect us to do nothing while they do as they please.

Unlike the IOM though if you join the tau you aren't expenable because tau way of war dosn't recognise the concept of expendable troops.
so if tau must storm a place it is auxiliary troops such as kroot who do it because of their natural fieldcraft skills but their safty is entrusted to the troops, who are providing the covering fire who must identify and kill enemy firebases as the assaults advance, same concept is used for kouyon and mont'ka.

And i am sure chaos would chew you up and spit you out when they have finished with you.

That's... what the Imperial Guard does. When it sends troops in it supports them with heavy weapons, armour & artillery, as well as any air support they can muster/nab off of the Imperial navy to ensure enough Guardsmen make it to the objective to carry the day. Do you think that the Guard just sends a regiment across to the enemy completely unsupported and when it gets slaughtered goes 'Oh well, never mind, they were expendable.' Imperial Guard units are only expendable when a critical location must be held/taken or if their sacrifice allows a greater part of the strategy to be completed - for example diversionary attacks to provoke the enemy into committing its reserves whilst the real attack smashes through elsewhere. Every Guardsman who falls is one less who can kill the enemy. Whilst some regiments/worlds do advocate means of warfare where losses can be high, such as the Valhallans and their 'human wave' assaults, you will find that amongst the Guard the commanders will want to husband their forces to ensure they have enough to draw upon depending upon the situation.

 Puretide1 wrote:
Unlike the IOM though if you join the tau you aren't expenable because tau way of war dosn't recognise the concept of expendable troops.
so if tau must storm a place it is auxiliary troops such as kroot who do it because of their natural fieldcraft skills but their safty is entrusted to the troops, who are providing the covering fire who must identify and kill enemy firebases as the assaults advance, same concept is used for kouyon and mont'ka.

No thanks. Death or Chaos is preferrable to xenos filth.

And i am sure chaos would chew you up and spit you out when they have finished with you.

Just fight and Khorne will do the rest...Tzeentch protects useful pawns...Nurgle takes care of his family...Slaanesh will always love you no matter how you end up...and besides, Daemon Prince, so meh.

Guard are not expendable in the sense that they are thrown into meat-grinders willy-nilly. They are given all the support and more that the modern armies of Earth get, although certainly very frequently regiments become isolated and have to fight through horrific foes on their own as per grim dark convention.

That said, the IG have a threshold of acceptable casualties, a threshold that's necessarily high to account for the type of enemies these armies frequently face. Tau/Kroot would suffer similar casualty rates against these foes, and their chosen option would frequently be not to fight at all. Not fighting is not an option for the Imperium.

 Omegus wrote:


That said, the IG have a threshold of acceptable casualties, a threshold that's necessarily high to account for the type of enemies these armies frequently face. Tau/Kroot would suffer similar casualty rates against these foes, and their chosen option would frequently be not to fight at all. Not fighting is not an option for the Imperium.

THIS. The Tau simply CANNOT handle the threat level the Imperium faces across the galaxy. They don't have numbers, or the mentality for either. For instance, try facing a full Tyranid Hive Fleet - that's an invasion with fronts across multiple sectors. Tau technology is good, and their strategies are adaptive, but they're not meant for battles of attrition. All the Tau have really faced from the Tyranids are Splinter Fleets - small, weak, easy, pickings. Try a full Hive Fleet, and its a completely different story.

The Imperium can't be "fixed". That's kind of the whole point of it.

Kamikaze Canuck is probably right. Maybe a few thousand years ago the Imperium could have tried to fix itself, but right now, it's not in the best position to do so with attacks from the Tyranids and the Necrons growing.

However, for the purposes of discussion, here's one crackpot plan

Change the Imperial Doctrine to include "benign" intelligent aliens if they follow the Doctrine and are determined appropriate by the Inquisition. Start a secret engineering school; don't disband the Adeptus Mechanicus yet. Gradually weaken the control of the Adeptus Mechanicus and begin faking STCs with what are actually new devices. Conquer the Tau. Don't form an alliance; just conquer them and let them live as Imperial citizens with no hope of forming their empire again. Smash their ideas of the Greater Good and grind it to dust. Absorb the Tau engineers into the secret engineering schools. Begin building technology in secret while still providing fake STCs. Perhaps encourage mechanically-gifted Tau to join the Adeptus Mechanicus, leading to cross-pollination of ideas. Eventually, if there's still too much resistance, disband the Adeptus Mechanicus only during a time when you believe the Imperium can handle it (AKA when Leviathan isn't being shoved down its throat), but let the Adeptus Mechanicus members keep their faith and their positions if they stay loyal.

This entire plan will take at least a few hundred years. It is not an immediate plan. It might also become unfeasible if the Tau become too technologically advanced to easily conquer or if they get swallowed up by a hive fleet. Finally, the plan assumes that it is possible to break Tau from the Greater Good; I'd say it is possible, since that idea only came with the introduction of the Ethereals. If it comes to it, killing all the Ethereals and indoctrinating a generation of Tau without Ethereal guidance will be an option if it leaves the Tau engineers open to absorption.

Come to think of it, the part about using the Tau is pretty ancillary; the main thing you need to do is introduce innovation without explicitly introducing innovation.