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I've been thinking quite a bit about what could be done to revive the imperium both politically and militarily to revive the imperium.

1). Disbanding of the High Lords of Terra , replaced with Chapter masters of space Marines , having them meet every century to discuss emergency matters - under the watchful eye of the Custodes

2) Formation of the Imperial Army and Fleet , this allowing greater tactical flexibility for Imperial forces .
A) the Attachment of Commissars And Inquisitors ( yes you'd have to train a lot more ) to discourage and prevent corruption of an imperial battle group

3) The machine cult is disbanded allowing the rebirth. Of conventional engineering

4) the Minisortium is devised into 9 sectors allowing more effective application of reinforcements and supplies

5) The assembly of a New Space Marine legion ( yes Legion ) who's sole purpose is to seek out and destroy heretic units


6) Re writing of imperial doctrine to ally with Tau ad Eldar

7) Return of the imperial truth and the collapse of the Ellisarchy

8) reverse engineer and reconstruct the Necron Pylons on Cadia to. Completely resolve the eye of Terror




These are really the only ways I can see the imperium being forced back to another golden age without the return of the primarchs or the emperors rebirth , much else anyone can think off ?

DEATH TO THE FALSE EMPEROR!!!!

 Kasrkin229 wrote:
I've been thinking quite a bit about what could be done to revive the imperium both politically and militarily to revive the imperium.

1). Disbanding of the High Lords of Terra , replaced with Chapter masters of space Marines , having them meet every century to discuss emergency matters - under the watchful eye of the Custodes

2) Formation of the Imperial Army and Fleet , this allowing greater tactical flexibility for Imperial forces .
A) the Attachment of Commissars And Inquisitors ( yes you'd have to train a lot more ) to discourage and prevent corruption of an imperial battle group

3) The machine cult is disbanded allowing the rebirth. Of conventional engineering

4) the Minisortium is devised into 9 sectors allowing more effective application of reinforcements and supplies

5) The assembly of a New Space Marine legion ( yes Legion ) who's sole purpose is to seek out and destroy heretic units


6) Re writing of imperial doctrine to ally with Tau ad Eldar

7) Return of the imperial truth and the collapse of the Ellisarchy

8) reverse engineer and reconstruct the Necron Pylons on Cadia to. Completely resolve the eye of Terror

1) Beyond the fact the high lords were put in place by the emperor himself, it's not like anything bad happened last time space marines were in charge of everything...

2) Heresy spreads easily, keeping combined arms separated is intentional and for good reason.

3) The heresy violently eliminated or forced those who believe in inovation into the eye of terror so there isn't anyone left who even has a desire to innovate beyond finding STC templates.

4) This assumes all sectors are equal, they are not. There are vast, vast, gaps in space that is the IoM with planets being more like islands in a sea. Making all of those vast tracks of space equal is a recipe for disaster.

5) Again, not exactly the best idea to have a bunch of corruptible space marines under one command.

6) Suffer not the witch, the heretic, the alien to live is an essential mantra for life in 40k. Eldar would gladly sacrifice billions of humans to save one of their own and the Tau are as expansionist and imperialist as the next race. Humans are the inheritors of the stars and all others must fall, for existence itself in 40k is a zero sum game.

7) Faith in the big E in 40k has a tangible effect and is litterally a source of power for his servants.

8) Assumes that the necron technology can even be constructed at this point by the necrons themselves. Plus if the necrons, at the height of their power, couldn't destroy the eye of terror there's nothing to suggest humans could do the same.

The cool thing about 40k is that it's so grimdark, where ignorance is strength, there faith is freedom, and all of the truths that we have in real life are turned upside down.

1) Space Marines leading the Imperium? What in the Horus Heresy is wrong with that?

2) The Horus Heresy pretty much ended that idea. 'Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, I better be dead.' Kind of thing...

3) Completely Abolishing your only means to manufacture weaponry and vehicles would definately not help.

4) More.Red.Tape.You.Heathen.

5) Already have the Grey Knights, but no need to make them Legion strength or you might be missing more Imperial Guard Regiments from 'neccessary' exterminations.

6) No. You Gue'la are far too stubborn to be of any use in the Greater Good. We will watch your centers of Administration burn and your Space Marines fall from grace and take what is left, for that is truly what the Greater Good demands.

Besides, the Eldar have been toying with the Imperium since its inception. Why would they give up their favorite catspaws for a brittle, not existant alliance.

I wouldn't be surprised if Eldar and Tau became buddy-buddies though.

7) Faith is blind. Good luck trying to tell the Ecclesiarchy 'No'.

8) Necron Tech is far beyound what the Imperium can do.

The cool thing about 40k is that it's so grimdark, where ignorance is strength, there faith is freedom, and all of the truths that we have in real life are turned upside down.

 buddha wrote:


8) Assumes that the necron technology can even be constructed at this point by the necrons themselves. Plus if the necrons, at the height of their power, couldn't destroy the eye of terror there's nothing to suggest humans could do the same.

The eye of terror didn't exist at the height of the Necron Empire...

as for the OP, what the Imperium needs is a big old Restart button. Failing that, take the Big E off life support.

 Kasrkin229 wrote:
I've been thinking quite a bit about what could be done to revive the imperium both politically and militarily to revive the imperium.

1). Disbanding of the High Lords of Terra , replaced with Chapter masters of space Marines , having them meet every century to discuss emergency matters - under the watchful eye of the Custodes

The Adeptus Mechanicus, Astra Telepathica, Administratum, Adeptus Arbites, and Navigators are all now pissed as hell and will refuse to cooperate, dooming the Imperium. Other powerful enemies like the Inquisition and Officio Assassinorum are made.

2) Formation of the Imperial Army and Fleet , this allowing greater tactical flexibility for Imperial forces .
A) the Attachment of Commissars And Inquisitors ( yes you'd have to train a lot more ) to discourage and prevent corruption of an imperial battle group

Heresy and desertion is already a big enough problem int he Imperial Guard without giving them bloody starships...

3) The machine cult is disbanded allowing the rebirth. Of conventional engineering

Good idea! Unfortunately the Ad-Mech would viciously resist this, starting a devastating civil war where other Space Marine chapters such as the Iron Hands/descendants would probably come in on the AdMech side.

4) the Minisortium is devised into 9 sectors allowing more effective application of reinforcements and supplies

I don't really get this. I also assume you mean the Munitorum.... The Ministorum is the Ecclesiarchy.

5) The assembly of a New Space Marine legion ( yes Legion ) who's sole purpose is to seek out and destroy heretic units

Not enough gene-seed for this, existing Chapters won't willingly give up theirs either. Also the Inquisition operates loyal chapters such as the Red Hunters for this role.

6) Re writing of imperial doctrine to ally with Tau ad Eldar

Would be somewhat helpful long-term, though I doubt the Eldar are interested in any sort of alliance.

7) Return of the imperial truth and the collapse of the Ellisarchy

Minus denying the existence of Chaos at every level, this would be good.

8) reverse engineer and reconstruct the Necron Pylons on Cadia to. Completely resolve the eye of Terror

Easier said then done...

I appreciate the hasty returns in this , I know there are many faults , but if I recall the Horus heresy was done by deceit saying that the emperor was going to dump the primarchs , but in terms of military effency I was thinking legions and the Imperial Army were more effective then the separate units , but I do get the massive threat of heresy

...I swear, this is the third thread I've had to show up on and point out that this whole thing is a mixture of meaningless speculation and bs that would lead to either a complete disintegration of the Imperium as a whole or the destruction of the 40k universe as a distinct and coherent entity. The entire premise of 40k is that the galaxy is on the brink of collapse, if you remove that concept you remove the very fundamental tone of the game, for one thing. Now, to address some points:

1. First, the High Lords aren't the sort to give up power willingly; trying to put the Space Marines in charge would just lead to a Space Marines vs. everyone else civil war. Second, what makes you think a man fit to lead a thousand castrated warrior-monks into battle is fit to lead a galaxy-spanning empire through every little thing that comes up and requires their attention? Third, you're assuming every single Chapter Master behaves like the Mary Sue characters Matt Ward wrote; what happens when you put someone like Kyras in charge? This creates infinitely more problems than it solves because it solves nothing at all.

2. The attachment of Commissars to units already operates in this manner; the post-Heresy reorganization separated out the fleet from the Guard, you wouldn't really be changing anything at all here.

3. Gee. Fine. Shoot everyone who knows how any technology in the Imperium works. No way that could go wrong. Seriously, have you read the technical manuals and troubleshooting information for any complicated piece of hardware these days? Conventional engineering or no, we're halfway to the Machine Cult already. Companies still have to call back people they fired years ago to do contract work because nobody else understands their code. Without understanding how your tech works, engineering is impossible, suggesting that all you'd accomplish with this is to bring the Imperium to a standstill when everything breaks down and there's nobody left who knows how to fix it.

4. Think about how big the United States is today. Think about how absurdly complicated the tax code and the bureaucracy get. Now multiply that by a couple of thousand to get the population of a planet. Then multiply that by a few billion to get the population of the Imperium. Then divide it by nine. What have you accomplished? You've made something that is merely a trillion times as complicated as the U.S. tax system instead of ten trillion times as complicated. I'm sure that makes it astoundingly efficient.

5. We've got one. It's called the Dark Angels, and yes, the fluff does state that successor Chapter Masters still answer to Azrael.

6. You assume here that the Eldar would want anything to do with the Imperium and that the Tau would accept anyone who doesn't submit wholly to their doctrine. I'm skeptical at best. It'd also require Humanity as a whole to swallow their pride and admit that we've spent ten thousand years being dicks. Given the number of times I've seen any individual swallow his/her/its pride long enough to admit he/she/it has been a dick on an individual occasion, it's not going to happen.

7. See #1 for what happens when you put a bunch of people in positions of great power and then suddenly say "Whoops! Power's gone, boys." Civil war, economic collapse, moral bankruptcy, looting, slaughter, chaos, then Failbaddon shows up and actually wins for once because we're too busy trying to rewrite the fundamental truths of our society to satisfy a few people's ideas of morality to fight back.

8. Imagine I walked into your room today and asked you to 'reverse engineer' a Warp drive. Are you really expecting a society based on retaining old technology to successfully reproduce a technology based on physical principles that have never been understood by any man, woman, or child in the entirety of human history?

In short: Yes, if we could fly under our own power and genetically engineer dinosaurs that pissed heroin and Superman came down from the sky and beat up the Chaos Gods and the Emperor showed up again and congratulated us all on what a good job we'd done the world would be a nice place. But the world isn't a nice place. This is Warhammer, and you're fethed regardless of what you do.

While I agree that the re-adoption of the Imperial Truth would undoubtedly help in the Imperium's restoration, I don't see how having the Chapter Master of the Space Marines wielding the political power would help. Remember: " He whose generals are able and not interfered with by the sovereign will be victorious." -Sun Tzu

I veto this thread.

well were gunna need a combined vote of 2/3 in the house of dakka to unlock this thread.. good luck guys

Soldiers have never made good politicians. Please don't try and transform the Imperium into The Federation, I like grimdark - I NEED GRIMDARK!!

 Citizen Luka wrote:
Soldiers have never made good politicians. Please don't try and transform the Imperium into The Federation, I like grimdark - I NEED GRIMDARK!!

thats exactly what I was saying. Never has really worked in history

Alexander the Great was a soldier and a great leader...in fact, the only reason his empire fell apart was because he died.

On-topic:

1) Unplug the Golden Throne - bet you the entire galaxy the moment we do it, the Emperor will return to normal.
2) Reorganize the High Lords of Terra back to the Council of Terra - boot the Inquisitorial Representative*, the Ecclesiarch**, the Master of the Astronomican***, the Grand Provost Marshall****, and the Grand Master of the Officio Assassinorum****, and give the Captain General of the Adeptus Custodes a permanent seat.
3) Slowly re-introduce the Imperial Truth and disband the Inquisition and the Ecclesiarchy.
4) Slowly re-integrate the Legio Astartes.
5) Reform the Imperial Army.
6) Sign a non-aggression pact with the Craftworld Eldar.
7) Re-start and complete the Imperial Webway Project.

*Seeing as the Inquisition will slowly be disbanded, there's really no need for them to have a seat on the Council of Terra.
**See above.
***The Astronomican is only a temporary measure - once the Imperial Webway Project is complete, we'll have no need for the Astronomican.
****Glorified policemen and honorless murderers have no place on the Council of Terra.

EDIT: Regarding the Tau, once the Imperial Webway Project is complete and the Imperial Truth restored, they WILL sign a treaty - a treaty of surrender.

 Tadashi wrote:
Alexander the Great was a soldier and a great leader...in fact, the only reason his empire fell apart was because he died.

On-topic:

1) Unplug the Golden Throne - bet you the entire galaxy the moment we do it, the Emperor will return to normal.
2) Reorganize the High Lords of Terra back to the Council of Terra - boot the Inquisitorial Representative*, the Ecclesiarch**, the Master of the Astronomican***, the Grand Provost Marshall****, and the Grand Master of the Officio Assassinorum****, and give the Captain General of the Adeptus Custodes a permanent seat.
3) Slowly re-introduce the Imperial Truth and disband the Inquisition and the Ecclesiarchy.
4) Slowly re-integrate the Legio Astartes.
5) Reform the Imperial Army.
6) Sign a non-aggression pact with the Craftworld Eldar.
7) Re-start and complete the Imperial Webway Project.

*Seeing as the Inquisition will slowly be disbanded, there's really no need for them to have a seat on the Council of Terra.
**See above.
***The Astronomican is only a temporary measure - once the Imperial Webway Project is complete, we'll have no need for the Astronomican.
****Glorified policemen and honorless murderers have no place on the Council of Terra.

EDIT: Regarding the Tau, once the Imperial Webway Project is complete and the Imperial Truth restored, they WILL sign a treaty - a treaty of surrender.

1. If the Emperor dies, there's no guarantee He would come back. If He doesn't, humanity dies within a decade of His death, so good luck convincing anyone in the Imperium to do it.
2. If the Emperor comes back, what's the point of having a senate, He'd rule everything anyway.
3.The Emperor would do it - then again, His resurrected self may support the idea of trillions of faithful souls, the entity that would come back as the Emperor may not be the same as the one that departed it - by now, it is likely that the "God-Emperor" has become a full fledged 5th Chaos God of Order and Vengeance - His tyranny may even far surpass that of Goge Vandire's.
4. Doubtful. I don't think the Emperor would want to repeat what happened to Him.
5.Same as 4
6. That's not the Imperium, that's a Federation - that's 5 ways to kill the Imperium so far, and one way of destroying humanity.
7. Try convincing 10,000+ years of backwards cult-science to do it, it would likely take a thousand years or more just to change their minds let alone get to the level of progress needed to even attempt the project.

Its funny how many of the suggestions here are taking steps backwards or suggesting the impossible in the 40k Universe.

Everyone should just worship Slaanesh... change it to the Imperium of Party Time

 ENOZONE wrote:

2. If the Emperor comes back, what's the point of having a senate, He'd rule everything anyway.

Incorrect - the Emperor established the Council of Terra even before he was confined to the Golden Throne.

3.The Emperor would do it - then again, His resurrected self may support the idea of trillions of faithful souls, the entity that would come back as the Emperor may not be the same as the one that departed it - by now, it is likely that the "God-Emperor" has become a full fledged 5th Chaos God of Order and Vengeance - His tyranny may even far surpass that of Goge Vandire's.

The Emperor was never a god - if what came back was a god, then its not the Emperor. The Space Marines and the Custodes would never serve an usurper.

6. That's not the Imperium, that's a Federation - that's 5 ways to kill the Imperium so far, and one way of destroying humanity.

Fulgrim tried it once - he was never censured, either by the Warmaster or the Emperor.

7. Try convincing 10,000+ years of backwards cult-science to do it, it would likely take a thousand years or more just to change their minds let alone get to the level of progress needed to even attempt the project.

If the Emperor wanted to launch the Imperial Webway Project again, there's nothing the Mechanicus can do to stop him short of treason.

I think the fastest thing that would turn it around would be someone reliable finding a functioning Iron Man, with all the STC templates and the ability to create new ones based on need and condiitions. I am skeptical that they were all 100 percent destroyed. If say the chapter master of the Mentor Legion got his hands on one, kept it on the DL, and managed to propogate tech throughout a wide enough area it would have an effect. Trick is not letting on about where all the new technology is coming from so the mechanicus doesnt have a stage 5 wingout

 Augustine_Maven wrote:

 Citizen Luka wrote:
Soldiers have never made good politicians. Please don't try and transform the Imperium into The Federation, I like grimdark - I NEED GRIMDARK!!

thats exactly what I was saying. Never has really worked in history

Say that to Temujin Khan, also known as Genghis. And Alexander the Great. And Oliver Cromwell. And William of Normandy. And Edward I of England. Gaius Julius Ceaser & Gaius Julius Octavius 'Augustus'. There are bound to be thousands of others.

There is no barrier between being a good warrior & a capable politician. History has been rife with those who are good at bashing heads in but are also sly, subtle, cunning, devious gits who are good at the stinking mess that is politics - humans don't 'specialise' in one thing and can only do that one thing well, you know, we're very adaptable creatures - some just adapt to certain things better than others.

The first three alone would see it die. There's a very good reason they split them and trying to get the high lords to step down would likely create a civil war. The machine cult exists because if it didn't there would be yet another front the IoM was being assaulted from; their own weapons. The machine spirit exists somewhat as a basic AI in most IoM technology, mistreat it and it malfunctions. Or if it's a Land Raider it gets mad and does whatever it wants.

 Sparks_Havelock wrote:

 Augustine_Maven wrote:

 Citizen Luka wrote:
Soldiers have never made good politicians. Please don't try and transform the Imperium into The Federation, I like grimdark - I NEED GRIMDARK!!

thats exactly what I was saying. Never has really worked in history

Say that to Temujin Khan, also known as Genghis. And Alexander the Great. And Oliver Cromwell. And William of Normandy. And Edward I of England. Gaius Julius Ceaser & Gaius Julius Octavius 'Augustus'. There are bound to be thousands of others.

THIS. Not all soldier-leaders were poor leaders - Alexander alone ruled a vast empire during his lifetime with a minimum amount of force. He rarely (if ever) left garrisons behind him, and yet until his death, the empire held itself together. Dictators and tyrants are paradoxes - they are the best and the worst of us. Personally, I wouldn't mind a dictatorship as long as it gets gak done.

Bring back the big E and revive the innovation of technology.

 Tadashi wrote:
Alexander the Great was a soldier and a great leader...in fact, the only reason his empire fell apart was because he died.

On-topic:

1) Unplug the Golden Throne - bet you the entire galaxy the moment we do it, the Emperor will return to normal.
2) Reorganize the High Lords of Terra back to the Council of Terra - boot the Inquisitorial Representative*, the Ecclesiarch**, the Master of the Astronomican***, the Grand Provost Marshall****, and the Grand Master of the Officio Assassinorum****, and give the Captain General of the Adeptus Custodes a permanent seat.
3) Slowly re-introduce the Imperial Truth and disband the Inquisition and the Ecclesiarchy.
4) Slowly re-integrate the Legio Astartes.
5) Reform the Imperial Army.
6) Sign a non-aggression pact with the Craftworld Eldar.
7) Re-start and complete the Imperial Webway Project.

*Seeing as the Inquisition will slowly be disbanded, there's really no need for them to have a seat on the Council of Terra.
**See above.
***The Astronomican is only a temporary measure - once the Imperial Webway Project is complete, we'll have no need for the Astronomican.
****Glorified policemen and honorless murderers have no place on the Council of Terra.

EDIT: Regarding the Tau, once the Imperial Webway Project is complete and the Imperial Truth restored, they WILL sign a treaty - a treaty of surrender.

Amen - and I' agree completely with everything you said....
Some say this would be step back, I say corrupt situation in 40k is step back...

A dictator is truely blessed when a populace does nothing, a democracy is truely damned when a populace is not united.

Since 40k tends to be the first of the two. Let the cycle continue. Also if the 40k universe turns into one giant tree hugging competition, what am I going to send my armies against? Who saves the most endangered species?

Lol, unplugging the Golden Throne? Do you have any idea what that would do? It wouldn't return the Emperor to normal, it's the only thing that sustains him. It would destroy the Astronomican, put the Imperium into total chaos, and have Terra overrun by Daemons as the Golden Throne is the only thing holding back a giant Warp Portal the Emperor opened up there during the Heresy as part of his Webway project.

Please cite where you speak of a portal opened by the golden throne. I've never heard of this.

 BunkerBob wrote:
Please cite where you speak of a portal opened by the golden throne. I've never heard of this.

In the Collected Visions book, a portal opens up behind the Golden Throne and the Custodes/Sisters of Silence have to hold off hordes of Daemons. It's what happened while the Big E was trying to fix a Golden Throne malfunction caused by Magnus' warning to Terra if I recall.

At the very lest if the throne goes down, earth dies and the Astronomicon goes dark.what happens after that is anyone's guess, but you can more or less kiss the idea of a galaxy spanning Imperoum goodby.

 Harriticus wrote:

 BunkerBob wrote:
Please cite where you speak of a portal opened by the golden throne. I've never heard of this.

In the Collected Visions book, a portal opens up behind the Golden Throne and the Custodes/Sisters of Silence have to hold off hordes of Daemons. It's what happened while the Big E was trying to fix a Golden Throne malfunction caused by Magnus' warning to Terra if I recall.

Yap.

Seriously that was the entire point of building the Golden Throne was to help defeat Chaos/make space travel safer and more efficent for humans.


So many of these 'attempts to save the Imperium' are are litteraly "How can we feth humanity so hard up the ass."