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for nids I would say...
Tervigon
3x warriors
12x termagants
12x hormagaunts

Gives you the biggest variety as far as unit types in the codex goes (gribblies, t4's, and MC). Now all that would need to happen is for warriosr to become viable

Deathwing box two terminator squads and a commander in Terminator armor 115 dollars

 captain collius wrote:
Deathwing box two terminator squads and a commander in Terminator armor 115 dollars

You do know that saves you a grand total of $4.25

Make it 3 terminator squads and price it at $120

Great ideas guys, any more?

For Space Marines, I'd like:

1 Commander
1 Tactical Squad
1 Devastator Squad
1 Combat Squad
1 Dreadnought

$120

For Eldar I'd like:
10x Dire Avengers,
3x Jetbikes,
1x Wave Serpent,
1x War Walker
Separately that's £93.50. For the current battleforce it is £65. Not a bad saving there.I think that sounds like a solid enough battleforce and a good start to a reasonble army.

For the Ork battleforce I think some Meganobz would be cool. Either compensate by raising the current price, or by scrapping the bikes.

I see some people suggesting to edit the Tau box, but as that is the only box that actually WORKS, and fits right into a 500 point scale game, WHY change it?

You get an HQ, the army-mechanic elite, a transport and both your troop types.

Sure its weak, but its the Tau codex, the strong stuff are the heavy guns and the battlesuits-both NOT fitting for a battleforce, as they are not entry-level units. (suits fit in small games, but complex list building too much)
Contains some stuff you probably wont keep in your list when you hit the 1500 point tables, but for starter games it's great, and gives a verity of fun units to work with a feel the army and how it handles.

A proper battleforce should be composed of the following:
1 HQ (the most "basic" HQ the army has, just to have one.)
2 Troops (2 kinds of troops if the army has multiple kinds might be the best idea)
A transport or another support unit, as fits the army.
A signature unit of the army, something that makes that army special-something fun and special, even if a bit weak. (NOT troops, even if they got signature troops)

And at least 1 of the units need to be armored unit if there is no transport.
Also, it should be possible to make a 500 point force out of it at the least, and contain that army list in it, so it can truly serve as the entry deal it was meant to be.

My thoughts of battleforces ATM: (do note, I am unaware of point values of much, but I assume that after my addition it can build at least 500 points)
BA-needs a total overhaul, an HQ, 5 tacticals, 10 assault, a furiso and 5 vanguard/deathcomp seems like a nice starter assault setup to me.
Chaos-replace the bikers with cultists and shove an HQ in and its done. (dont give me "possessed are bad", it should be fun and unique, not powermongering)
Demons-scrap this one too. no idea what to do properly with it though, just do SOMETHING.
DE-just give it an HQ and its good to go.
Eldar-looks like its another "HQ and repack" to me. maybe change the walker with some pathfinders.
IG-give it a chimera and its good to go as either a veteran battleforce or a platoon base.
Necrons-once again, just add an HQ.
Orks-don't now about the bikers, but an HQ can seal this one up too.
C:SM-replace the assault and combat with a dread and a commander, maybe add 5 more scouts. (give them that generic "as you see fit" versatile force feel.)
SW-HQ, replace scouts with wolves. (they might not be great, but they sure are special!)
Tau-You can keep it as it is! if you really want to you can drop kroot in favor of 4 more FW, 2 more drones (2 teams of 8+2) and a few pathfinders ("proper" tau with ML)
Nids-Add some unique looking "tyranid prime" to lead them and its also set!

Sigh, boring people and their codex battleforces. What the game really needs:

Titan battleforce: Reaver x1, Warhound x2.

Imperial Navy battleforce: Marauder Destroyer, 2x Thunderbolt, Vulture

I believe they just re released the Chaos battleforce... They swapped out 8 Khorne Berzerkers and 5 Chaos Marines for 3 Chaos Bikers... not too impressed with that...

Haven't seen many ideas for a possible GK, bt or even a sisters battleforce! Keep them coming guys, this threads had some great contributions.

a new BA one cuz the current one isnt that good.
(megaforce size)

20x Assault marines
20x Death Company
1x libby
1x Furioso Dreadnought


priced at $249.99 USD

or a gilded one.

20x Assault Marines
10x DC
Dante
10 Sang guard

or a realistic one
10x assault marines
10x DC
Librarian
3x Sang. Preist

249.99 USD

 Tyriion wrote:
Haven't seen many ideas for a possible GK, bt or even a sisters battleforce! Keep them coming guys, this threads had some great contributions.

Not familiar enough with any of them to actually make a suggestion, they each got one player in our FLGS at best, so I never bothered looking at them after choosing an army (and sisters got canceled right out due to price, GK due to jerky playstyle and templars for unlikeable fluff)

Grey Knights, maybe 10 pagk, 5 termies and a dreadknight. Just something that bundles some cool things and gives saving.

Edit: or 5 pagk, 10 terminators, dreadknight. A raven would be coll but that is just wish listing

 Ailaros wrote:
Megaforces are just a fancy way of saying "GW Christmas deal".

I agree that the imperial guard one is dumb. You can't make a real guard army with one. Not even close. You do get two squads of infantry, and an officer squad, but in order to field them as a mechvet list, you need to buy three chimeras and a bunch of special weapons. If you want to run foot guard, you could buy two battleforces and STILL not be able to field a legal list.

I almost think they should have two battleforces for guard. One that comes with 4 squads of infantry, and officer squad and 3 heavy weapons teams, and a separate box that comes with 3 chimeras, a russ, and 3 of the special weapons booster packs.

That way, you could make a serious foot list with two of the infantry battleforces, and you could make a serious mech list with one of each of them.

Plus, as they'd have different things in them, it's not like they'd be cannibalizing sales or anything.

Its only bad if you want to field a mech/vet list. Just because your goal for building the army isnt the same as the setup doesnt make the battleforce bad. They give you an Infantry Platoon in each box, thats not actually a bad deal with the problem being the Sentinel, that Sentinel is why you can argue its bad. Hell if you drop the Sentinel out and give it a proper price reduction that box would be awsome. (Ive bought 3 total, only because I like Sentinels for fluff reasons)

If it had to be in the same range as the current ($105 I think right now) I think remove the Sentinel and add a Chimera. (Or bring the old one back, 2 IGs, a HWS, and a Leman Russ, that one was fun)

 Galdos wrote:
Its only bad if you want to field a mech/vet list. Just because your goal for building the army isnt the same as the setup doesnt make the battleforce bad.

The point is that it doesn't make ANY army. It has the infantry for the start of a mech list, but no Chimeras. On the other hand, if you want to make a foot list it only gives you a single troops choice (and without the guns for a proper PCS even), so you're going to have to buy at least 2-3 battleforces to even consider starting an army. And in either case the addition of a garbage Sentinel cuts into the price advantage over buying single kits that only include models you'll actually use.

Compare this to the Tau battleforce, where you still have a garbage unit in the stealth suits (though it won't kill you to include them in your starting list), but at least it's a complete army.

Well, if you equip the hell out of everything in the IG battleforce, it still makes for a proper small-scale army, just not a very good one.

Same goes for the Tau battleforce, it packs the useless kroot (at least in such numbers), and the stealth suits who will lose potency in larger armies (and require more gun drones to function properly then the box provides), but it WORKS.

A pimped-out CCS can get to 100 point or so, a vet squad can be about 150 points when packed up with armor upgrade plus multiple special weapons. (far more if you get special character sargents)
Then you get the sentinel to pack a gun against whatever target you lack proper answers, and you have a decent ~500 point list, with some models to spare.

Not a competition winner, but sure is playable, gives you a taste of IG and some fun units to play around with. that's how my friend first got started, and it served as a perfect introduction to the army for him.

Its actually far more flexible then the Tau one, as it is both useful for a 500 point mini-army, and as a "buy a platoon base, get a sentinel free" set, and the squads can be used in many ways.
Not a bad deal either way-worst case if you don't want the sentinel you can sell it or use them as conversion/terrain bits.
IG is actually the best battleforce out there, with Tau a close second.

And while you complain about the "garbage sentinals", you keep dissing out any non-torment level unit of any codex and that's begging to irritate. its perfectly fine to have a medicore unit in the battleforce! not everyone is mathing up the game to get maximum results, especially not entry-level players who the battleforces are designed for. it should give a new guy a taste of the army, nothing complex. and even the so-called "garbage" units HAVE uses, CAN be played with and entirely possible to actually have FUN with.

You should really stop judging things based on whether or not they fit you needs in particular, and instead of what can be done with them, the fact something is not tailored to you does not make it bad.
Actually, the way it is at the moment is far better then pure mech or pure foot force, as it gives you the ability to branch out to whatever path got you more interested after your taste.

The old IG battleforce was fine. A few infantry squads, some HWTs and a Russ. What more would a guard player want?

We don't want crappy sentinals.

CSM:

10x CSM
5x CSM
Defiler
8 PM/KB
Rhino

Don't know what to price it at, since I don't do US prices. It should give you a decent army, especially if you kit bash a Lord or Sorceror out of those parts.

new Ork battleforce: 30 boyz, 10 lootas

The current Necron one actually is a good deal. Buy two of them + HQ and you're set.

On the SW's one, I'd drop the scouts and add half the sprues for wolves, so you can make your own HQ from it and some Wolf Guards while at it.

 BoomWolf wrote:
Well, if you equip the hell out of everything in the IG battleforce, it still makes for a proper small-scale army, just not a very good one.

It doesn't make an army at all. It isn't a legal foot army (only one troops choice, no HQ), and it isn't a mech army (no transports). The only way to make a legal army is to make a poorly equipped CCS and two poorly equipped veteran squads, since you don't get the special weapons to make proper units. This makes it an absolutely terrible way to start an IG army, since you either need to buy multiple battleforces (foot) or multiple transports (mech).

Same goes for the Tau battleforce, it packs the useless kroot (at least in such numbers), and the stealth suits who will lose potency in larger armies (and require more gun drones to function properly then the box provides), but it WORKS.

Kroot are a necessary unit, they teach you the value of meatshields and even later on you'll still want to use them unless you take allied IG platoons.

And I agree about the stealth suits, they're a terrible unit, but they at least function and teach you the basics of JSJ shooting and range control in your early games, and do a better job of it than a single crisis suit would as a hypothetical replacement. And even later on they're not a competitive unit, but they're still better than a battleforce "veteran" squad that doesn't have special weapons included.

A pimped-out CCS can get to 100 point or so, a vet squad can be about 150 points when packed up with armor upgrade plus multiple special weapons. (far more if you get special character sargents)
Then you get the sentinel to pack a gun against whatever target you lack proper answers, and you have a decent ~500 point list, with some models to spare.

In other words, pile on stupid upgrades that don't accomplish anything. I'm sure that's a great plan compared to, say, the Tau battleforce where you can get a 500 point list with reasonable, if not top-tier competitive, units in every slot.

And while you complain about the "garbage sentinals", you keep dissing out any non-torment level unit of any codex and that's begging to irritate.

Too bad. I'm not going to start praising garbage units just because you don't like knowing that GW's internal codex balance is laughably bad.

its perfectly fine to have a medicore unit in the battleforce!

Sentinels aren't mediocre, they're garbage. The only remotely useful thing you can do with them is glue the lascannons on a Valkryie to make a Vendetta and throw the rest of the kit in the garbage.

And it's a terrible idea to put garbage units in your starter sets. Remember, this is often the first introduction to your game for a new player, do you really want to show them the worst units in the army?

not everyone is mathing up the game to get maximum results, especially not entry-level players who the battleforces are designed for. it should give a new guy a taste of the army, nothing complex.

And then the newbie gets tabled by someone who spent the same amount of money buying single non-battleforce kits and quits the game. Good plan.

Actually, the way it is at the moment is far better then pure mech or pure foot force, as it gives you the ability to branch out to whatever path got you more interested after your taste.

Except you can only "branch out" if you spend hundreds of dollars on additional models.

The Tau battleforce gives you a good starting point for an army, by itself it isn't competitive but it gives you a good taste of the various unit types and a decent range of models to start building from. And, more importantly, it's playable out of the box. You can play some battleforce games and make your next purchases with a decent idea of what you want to do with your army.

The IG battleforce gives you nothing. By itself it isn't a complete army so you lose the "everything you need in one box" factor, and once you remove the value of the Sentinel you don't have much of an advantage in "save money on the infantry you have to buy anyway" compared to just buying individual kits. And worst of all it doesn't actually tell you anything about how either play style works, you don't have a legal foot army, and you don't have the models for a mech army. So you can't even play and get an idea of what you like about IG, since you have to spend that extra money before playing your first game.

Your entire argument falls on one thing: you need to get more stuff to be competitive.

"it does not make a legal army"? is a vet squad not a troop? you got 2. is a CCS not an HQ? you got one. legal army right there-tiny, but legal.

But you completely forget this is freaking IG we are talking about! it REQUIRES a mass of models because point costs are dirt-cheap for most things!
You cant have a massive battleforce with twice as many models-it will be WAY too expensive for a starter set. they need to be kept at a reasonable enough cost too so there won't be a massive entry barrier, as list virtually so-having to get more packs feels different then having a more expensive pack, your subcutaneous will render two packs for X$ as a better deal then one pack at 2X$, even if the contents are identical.

You don't compare a starter set to a competitive cherry-picked army, you compare it to OTHER starter sets, and compared to them its PERFECTLY FINE.

"You need to buy more to be competitive" well-you would have to do that ANYWAY as a guard. at least you get freaking SOMETHING out of it. it gives you a good deal while at it-you spend a bit less money then a command squad+2 inf squads+heavy team, and get a sentinel extra.
Want to be foot IG? get 2 battleforces and a command squad/other HQ-still costed you less then single-shopping, and 2 sentinels can actually be of use to you as you got no other mobile AT) want to be mech IG? add a pair of chimeras, and find something to do with the sentinel.

You don't like sentinels? GET OVER IT! this army is not made "for peregrine" it is made "for the new player", and odds are-the new player would like that sentinel, as it is a cheap and mobile heavy weapon platform-perfect for small scale games where you can't afford to have tanks around. not to mention it looks sweet and gives off a nice reference to the AT-ST.
And even in large scale games, some players will use the sentinel as an outflanker suicide squad to take out tanks from the side (rear if lucky), not my way of fighting (I don't run units I intend to lose), and maybe not the best path, but people do that.
Still don't like it? sell it, scrape it-there is plenty to do with it. its by no means junk-it has value even to those who won't run it.

There is a reason why there is no flood of sentinels on Ebay despite people buying the IG battleforce like crazy-sentinels are just a nice kit to have, whether it is for the unit itself, scrapping it, converting with it or making terrain with.



And as a final reference, while you contradict me on the Tau:
1-the kroot ARE useless "at least in such numbers", don't tackle half a sentence, as the other half can switch it's meaning. never claimed them to be useless as a whole, but useless at a squad of 12 (not nearly enough to be a proper meatshield or a proper assault force) and while in lrager games they have uses, they are FAR from a nececary part of the army, and amny large armies fields 0 kroot after 6th came to play, because the other troop choice actually became useful to have in numbers.

2-I never said the stealth suits are "a terrible unit", and as a fact I disagree with it. its a medicore unit, and one that can fit nicely in some lists, but not a backbone unit and one that struggles to work it's magic on a crowded field, much of it's (at times absurd) power comes from taking advantage of terrain and clear spaces like no other, and at small games there is so mcuh terrain and borad size compared to army size that they cant really be stopped.

Both have uses, neither is competitive, yet both BELONG in the battleforce.

 BoomWolf wrote:
"it does not make a legal army"? is a vet squad not a troop? you got 2. is a CCS not an HQ? you got one. legal army right there-tiny, but legal.

It's only legal if you bring three garbage units which aren't even close to fully equipped. Compare this to the Tau battleforce where you get a standard HQ (crisis suit with any weapons you want) and two standard units of troops (minimum-size Kroot meatshields, Fire Warriors in a Devilfish). One of these is a start to a legal army that you might use outside of a desperate attempt to make a legal list out of a single battleforce box, one of them isn't.

You don't compare a starter set to a competitive cherry-picked army, you compare it to OTHER starter sets, and compared to them its PERFECTLY FINE.

I can also compare it to other starter sets and it's garbage. It's not a good value, it's not a good starting point for an army, and it can't win against the other battleforces.

Want to be foot IG? get 2 battleforces and a command squad/other HQ-still costed you less then single-shopping, and 2 sentinels can actually be of use to you as you got no other mobile AT) want to be mech IG? add a pair of chimeras, and find something to do with the sentinel.

And this is exactly the problem: out of the box the IG battleforce is garbage, and you have to buy hundreds of dollars in additional units to have even the beginning of an army. Compare this to the Tau battleforce where it's playable right out of the box with normal units.

You don't like sentinels? GET OVER IT! this army is not made "for peregrine" it is made "for the new player", and odds are-the new player would like that sentinel, as it is a cheap and mobile heavy weapon platform-perfect for small scale games where you can't afford to have tanks around. not to mention it looks sweet and gives off a nice reference to the AT-ST.

It's also garbage, and even a new player is going to quickly realize that it's garbage.

And, worse, it's not fun. Every new player can instantly see how a Leman Russ or Basilisk is awesome, but a Sentinel, at best, is just an adequate unit that does point-efficient damage. You know, just like the HWTs you also get in the same box.

And even in large scale games, some players will use the sentinel as an outflanker suicide squad to take out tanks from the side (rear if lucky), not my way of fighting (I don't run units I intend to lose), and maybe not the best path, but people do that.

It's garbage in that role. The only time it contributes as an outflanking weapon platform is when it donates its lascannons to a Valkyrie to build a Vendetta, and then goes into the garbage can.

1-the kroot ARE useless "at least in such numbers", don't tackle half a sentence, as the other half can switch it's meaning. never claimed them to be useless as a whole, but useless at a squad of 12 (not nearly enough to be a proper meatshield or a proper assault force) and while in lrager games they have uses, they are FAR from a nececary part of the army, and amny large armies fields 0 kroot after 6th came to play, because the other troop choice actually became useful to have in numbers.

You're talking about a 500 point game. A single Kroot squad is plenty at that level, and still useful as games increase in size. Compare this to a "veteran squad" with no weapon upgrades which is never useful at any point level.

Also, you NEVER take Kroot above minimum size. If you want a meatshield it's always better to have two 10-man meatshield units than a single 20-man meatshield. You get more flexibility, and you minimize the chance of accomplishing anything in the assault phase and risking a locked combat in your own shooting phase.

Gosh, both of you calm down! This is for new battleforces, not duking it out over the Tau and IG battleforce! If you want to do that, start a new thread!

I agree, we both went a bit too aggressive there.

The fact the Tau battleforce is amazing does NOT diminish the IG battleforce.

The fact you need tons on models in NOT the fault of the battleforce, but the fault of the army.


You compare the pack as what you get as a force instead of a purcush, by that logic the entire IG army is worthless as you need to buy alot more models then a space marine army to have a proper list.
And as we all know, it does NOT work that way.

Tau is the Xeno elite army, with things that out-point the marines left and right, while the IG is the IoM horde army-by DEFINITION the battleforces cannot be the same without the IG one being far, far bigger.

And it is REQUIRED to keep them at a generic unit combination, and small size, because once it gets too large (lets say, for a point of reference, 2 vet squads, a CCS, 2 chemiras and a russ?) it will be even better for a guy building his very first mech IG list, but utterly useless to anyone who wants to expend his army and/or to to start some footguard, on the other hand if you do it with 4 troop teams, 2 HWS, and 2CCS it will be great for a footguard starter, but useless to an expending armies or a mech starter.

As for your "its garbage" point, even if true (and some very strong IG lists run a few sentinel suicide AT as I was told, but up for debate) ITS IRRELEVANT.
The power level is NOT even an issue! it only matters if the box, as a box, can even be PLAYED, weak or strong-its still PLAYS,
And as said-even if you don't run the unit, the kit still has value, even if someone is as close-minded as yourself to only see the option of taking the lascannons for his jets.
BTW-you MIGHT be amazed, but not EVERY IG player even runs aircraft, despite being very powerful-some people care more about how stuff looks and feels then pure power outlet, and sentinels have great style, even if a bit on the weak side. (and again, a lot of people willingly run weaker units because they DO enjoy them, despite lower output. heck I run sniper drones just for the heck of it! I got no illusions that its a great unit, but it does a bit of damage and I like the idea of a "supporting semi-heavy guns" that shoot from the back while my FW press the attack.)

The IG battleforce is perfect as it is, it jsut suffers from the flaws of the army a bit.
The majorty of other battleforces has a problem of having no HQ unit, but thats an easy fix, and buying "battleforce+HQ box" is not THAT bad.

The REAL flawed battleforces are those who don't even exist (GK, BT, SoB, and in a way DA), provide only a swarm of troops (nids and demons), or have nothing army-special about them (BA, and a bit the SW.)