Can Vendettas/Valkyries outflank since the latest IG FAQ came out?

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**rigeld2**

Tomb King wrote:
When a rule is no longer valid or needed it is entered in the errata, or amendment section of an faq. If their is a specific question regarding a rule it is listed in the faq portion of an faq. If they wanted the vendetta to have no more effect such as Tau: Target Priority Test etc... they would of listed it in the proper section the one that removes or adds rules not the one that clarifies them.

You're implying that FAQs cannot change rules?

**jdjamesdean@mail.com**

Tomb King wrote:

How many of the faq's would result in a different outcome if you only applied half the question?

First off I'm applying both questions with one answer. It answers both fine.

Secondly, show me another FAQ with multiple questions, and just 1 answer.

**Tomb King**

rigeld2 wrote:
Tomb King wrote:
When a rule is no longer valid or needed it is entered in the errata, or amendment section of an faq. If their is a specific question regarding a rule it is listed in the faq portion of an faq. If they wanted the vendetta to have no more effect such as Tau: Target Priority Test etc... they would of listed it in the proper section the one that removes or adds rules not the one that clarifies them.

You're implying that FAQs cannot change rules?

They can change the ways rules are interpreted and the way they function but they dont remove a rule's complete function while leaving the rule through faq usually it is done through amendments or errata's.

**Testify**

RAW - no

RAI - yes

How I would play it - I guess I'd give them outflank, since I'd only be playing people who didn't spam them to begin with.

**Tomb King**

jdjamesdean@mail.com wrote:
Tomb King wrote:

How many of the faq's would result in a different outcome if you only applied half the question?

First off I'm applying both questions with one answer. It answers both fine.

Secondly, show me another FAQ with multiple questions, and just 1 answer.

Didnt have to go far see space marines page 3.

**jdjamesdean@mail.com**

Tomb King wrote:
jdjamesdean@mail.com wrote:
Tomb King wrote:

How many of the faq's would result in a different outcome if you only applied half the question?

First off I'm applying both questions with one answer. It answers both fine.

Secondly, show me another FAQ with multiple questions, and just 1 answer.

Didnt have to go far see space marines page 3.

\

Q. If I have two or more special characters that exchange the rule
Combat Tactics for another one, when must I decide which to use? Does
it have to be on the army list or can I decide before each game? (p51)
A. It needs to be on the army list.

See how it effects both questions.

Now apply the Vendetta FAQ using the same method.

**Happyjew**

Ooh, ooh better one:

Tyranid FAQ wrote:Q: Can a Tyranid Broodlord (which has BS 0) use a witchfire psychic
power that doesn’t require a roll To Hit? If not, is he able to re-roll the
psychic power because he cannot use it? (p40)
A: No to both questions.

and

Q: Can a Mycetic Spore be subject to a Tank Shock and, if so, can it
still choose whether to Death or Glory or simply move out of the way?
(p54)
A: Yes, but it must choose to make a Death of Glory attack as it
cannot move for any reason once it has entered the battle.

One more.

Q: Tyranid Special Characters. Are Tyranid Special Characters
considered to be special versions of the standard creatures of their type
for the purposes of using psychic powers, biomorphs and special rules?
For example, is the Swarmlord considered to be a Hive Tyrant for the
purposes of using Hive Tyrant psychic powers? Similarly, is
Deathleaper considered to be a Lictor for the purposes of Chameleonic
Skin and Pheromone Trail, is the Doom of Malan’tai considered to be a
Zoanthrope for the purposes of Warp Field, is Old One Eye considered
to be Carnifex for the purposes of Living Battering Ram and are
Ymgarl Genestealers considered to be Genestealers for the purposes of
Brood Telepathy? (p56-61)
A. Yes in all cases.

In hindsight, I think I proved your point...

**Tomb King**

jdjamesdean@mail.com wrote:
Tomb King wrote:
jdjamesdean@mail.com wrote:
Tomb King wrote:

How many of the faq's would result in a different outcome if you only applied half the question?

First off I'm applying both questions with one answer. It answers both fine.

Secondly, show me another FAQ with multiple questions, and just 1 answer.

Didnt have to go far see space marines page 3.
\

Q. If I have two or more special characters that exchange the rule
Combat Tactics for another one, when must I decide which to use? Does
it have to be on the army list or can I decide before each game? (p51)
A. It needs to be on the army list.

See how it effects both questions.

Now apply the Vendetta FAQ using the same method.

I see your straight and I show my flush:

Q. If I have two or more special characters that exchange the rule
Combat Tactics for another one, when must I decide which to use?
A: It needs to be on the army list

Wait that doesnt make sense.... lets try:

Does it have to be on the army list or can I decide before each game? (p51)
A: It needs to be on the army list

That makes since but what is it in reference too?

See my point? Its in 2 questions but is one complete statement.

**Happyjew**

Tomb King wrote:
Q. If I have two or more special characters that exchange the rule
Combat Tactics for another one, when must I decide which to use?
A: It needs to be on the army list

This makes perfect sense. Since it needs to be on the army list you decide when building your army, as that is when things are added to your army list.

**Kevlar**

It seems pretty apparant to me they are only referencing the scout move rule and scout deployment. Outflank is an entirely different rule which is never brought up in the scope of the question asked.

**liturgies of blood**

Nope, unless a vendetta has the outflank rule too then the FAQ reads that there is no benefit from the scout rule. Outflank is part of the benefits of the rule.

**Kingsley**

Kevlar wrote:
It seems pretty apparant to me they are only referencing the scout move rule and scout deployment. Outflank is an entirely different rule which is never brought up in the scope of the question asked.

Except that Vendettas don't have Outflank. They have Scout, which normally grants Outflank, except that their Scout rule does nothing, so it doesn't grant Outflank.

**Kevlar**

Kingsley wrote:
Kevlar wrote:
It seems pretty apparant to me they are only referencing the scout move rule and scout deployment. Outflank is an entirely different rule which is never brought up in the scope of the question asked.

Except that Vendettas don't have Outflank. They have Scout, which normally grants Outflank, except that their Scout rule does nothing, so it doesn't grant Outflank.

Look at the context of the question. Look at the answer. The question is only referencing the scout rule. The answer states the scout rule does nothing for the model. Nothing in the answer says to remove the scout rule from the model. Just that the scout rule does nothing for the model. It still has the scout rule, but since it must start deployed in reserve it can never use it. The rule is not removed however. So the model still has the scout rule and still has the outflank rule. The model can still legally outflank.

**jdjamesdean@mail.com**

Kevlar wrote:
Kingsley wrote:
Kevlar wrote:
It seems pretty apparant to me they are only referencing the scout move rule and scout deployment. Outflank is an entirely different rule which is never brought up in the scope of the question asked.

Except that Vendettas don't have Outflank. They have Scout, which normally grants Outflank, except that their Scout rule does nothing, so it doesn't grant Outflank.

Look at the context of the question. Look at the answer. The question is only referencing the scout rule. The answer states the scout rule does nothing for the model. Nothing in the answer says to remove the scout rule from the model. Just that the scout rule does nothing for the model. It still has the scout rule, but since it must start deployed in reserve it can never use it. The rule is not removed however. So the model still has the scout rule and still has the outflank rule. The model can still legally outflank.

No it cannot. You're only answering a single question.

**Fragile**

This is another case of poorly worded FAQ answer.

By RAW, the wording removed Scout and Outflank.

By RAI and the context of the question, I believe it was intended just clarify that you cannot use a 6" inch move to redeploy from reserves onto the board. This is HIWPI.

**Happyjew**

^This. RAW is clear, no Outflanking. HIWPI (and what I believe is RAI), you can still outflank.

**Lobokai**

Fragile wrote:
This is another case of poorly worded FAQ answer.

By RAW, the wording removed Scout and Outflank.

By RAI and the context of the question, I believe it was intended just clarify that you cannot use a 6" inch move to redeploy from reserves onto the board. This is HIWPI.

Agreed. Any GT's rule on this yet?

**RegulusBlack**

Everyone on the internets is dumb,

obviously the RAW are that the Vendetta/Valkyrie have no effect, therefore.......

Plastic VTOL spaceships do not have a function......

how do you all not see this????????????

**Kevlar**

RegulusBlack wrote:
Everyone on the internets is dumb,

obviously the RAW are that the Vendetta/Valkyrie have no effect, therefore.......

Plastic VTOL spaceships do not have a function......

how do you all not see this????????????

Yeah the "It" is kind of vague, and without referencing either question in the answer you are free to interpret it in many different ways. Still, nothing removes the scout rule. Nothing removes the outflank rule. "It" has no effect in the frame of the question only removes scout deployment.

**jdjamesdean@mail.com**

Kevlar wrote:
RegulusBlack wrote:
Everyone on the internets is dumb,

obviously the RAW are that the Vendetta/Valkyrie have no effect, therefore.......

Plastic VTOL spaceships do not have a function......

how do you all not see this????????????

Yeah the "It" is kind of vague, and without referencing either question in the answer you are free to interpret it in many different ways. Still, nothing removes the scout rule. Nothing removes the outflank rule. "It" has no effect in the frame of the question only removes scout deployment.

Again allowing it to gain outflank from Scout, would be an effect.

At this point though, threads kinda dead and we're both just arguing A vs B all day. Until something new comes along, you know how I read the FAQ, and I know yours.

**Kingsley**

People who think Vendettas still have Scout moves: please explain how "This rule also confers the Outflank special rule" is NOT an effect of the Scout rule.

**DeathReaper**

Kingsley wrote:
People who think Vendettas still have Scout moves: please explain how "Models with this rule also gain Outflank" is NOT an effect of the Scout rule.

The Context of the FaQ does not remove the scout rule, it just takes away the scout move.

**Kingsley**

DeathReaper wrote:
Kingsley wrote:
People who think Vendettas still have Scout moves: please explain how "Models with this rule also gain Outflank" is NOT an effect of the Scout rule.
The Context of the FaQ does not remove the scout rule, it just takes away the scout move.

The context of the FAQ says the Scout rule has no effect. I don't see any reason to apply this to some parts of the Scout rule but not others.

**DeathReaper**

"Q: What effect, if any, does the Scout special rule have on a Valkyrie or Vendetta? Will this allow it to enter play in Turn 1 by redeploying 6" onto the board? (p56)
A: It has no effect."

"Will this allow it to enter play in Turn 1 by redeploying 6" onto the board" Clearly references the scout move part of the rule, The context tells us the scout move is what the FaQ is referencing.

**liturgies of blood**

No the context of the second question is about the scout move. The first question is far more broad in its scope.

"What effect, if any", is a very open question, the first part is a general question of it's effect while the second is a more specific situation.
The answer applies better to the first question as asked but gives an answer to both.

**DeathReaper**

It is an open question, and if not for the context of the second and related question it would totally negate the scout rule.

However the second question puts context to the first, and we see that they are only talking about the scout move.

**Fragile**

DeathReaper wrote:
It is an open question, and if not for the context of the second and related question it would totally negate the scout rule.

However the second question puts context to the first, and we see that they are only talking about the scout move.

You are seeing that the Asker was talking about the scout rule. The Answer did not specify and gave a very broad blanket answer that pretty much negated the Scout rule. Again, its a poorly worded FAQ answer that should not have been posted.

**Dozer Blades**

The IG flyers are the most undercosted overpowered in the game. It's about time GW reigned them in a bit.

**Yad**

DeathReaper wrote:
It is an open question, and if not for the context of the second and related question it would totally negate the scout rule.

However the second question puts context to the first, and we see that they are only talking about the scout move.

I disagree. The answer to the FAQ makes no sense when applied solely to the second question in the FAQ entry:

Will this allow it to enter play in Turn 1 by redeploying 6"
onto the board? (p56)

The answer only makes sense when applied to the first question. By answering the first, you obviate the need to address the second. Hence no Outflank and no 6'' move. This reminds me a bit of the attempts to avoid allowing MSS to benefit from the ability of a weapon that has the Force USR. If you disallow the 6'' move but allow the Outflank how are you preventing the player from benefiting from the Scout USR?

-Yad

**Dozer Blades**

The most conservative ruling is the flyers gain no benefit whatsoever from the USR... blame GW for sloppy writing if you will but this is the RAW.