Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

You know, if you wanted to go All In, @2400 points, you get 3 goblin warbosses on spiders, 6 goblin big bosses on gigantic spiders, one upgraded to the BSB with the spider banner; and still enough points for a level 4 goblin wizardlord.

If you load the front rank with 5 characters on 50mm, then the 4 in the 2nd rank could all take great weapons
That would give you 18 S5 attacks (poison on 6), 12 S6 attacks (poison on 6), 15 S4 attacks (poison on 5), and then 12 S4 rank and file attacks (poison on 6), ending with 5 S4 stomps.
You've got about 50 points of gear to slap on those goblin lords, so odd are you'll have most of your frontage 2+ armor (enchanted shield, dragon helm and gamblers armor split between the 3 lords).

No matter how you shake it out, if you're doing an O&G cav death star, you want that spider banner, and you want it in the 2nd rank.

-Matt

I've done a basic unit of 25 goblin wolf riders ranked 5 by 5. It worked pretty well in the edition before steadfast came out. i basically considered them VERY fast infantry. It was a way I could get a 4+ armor save and shove a couple characters into combat QUICK.

Never tried it as a horde.

It would be interesting to shoot them across the field with their vanguard. If nothing else it would be an impressive sight. Couldn't put characters in it if you wanted to do that though.

war wrote:
It would be interesting to shoot them across the field with their vanguard. If nothing else it would be an impressive sight. Couldn't put characters in it if you wanted to do that though.

Actually, Giant Wolves look to have the Fast Cavalry rule. As such, I think characters could be present in such a unit. Still couldn't charge on Turn 1 (unless the enemy got priority), but would basically mean you have only a single turn of shooting / magic to deal with.

Sure you could put characters in them. I've considered something like this myself- the wolf itself grants fast cav to any character riding it.

In fact, I may have missed it, but one of the potential advantages of this big ol' wolfstar is that it *is* fast cav (provided everyone inside's riding a wolf). That's gotta be worth something!

Its the wolves? I really need to reread that book, I can't believe I missed that one. If it is the wolves that give fast cav rules then it makes the wolf rider swarm significantly better. The problem was always that they didn't really do much in combat and were flanked very easily. If there are characters that can dish it out a bit then you have the ranks to break steadfast and the kills from the characters that can route the unit.

Still bulky to move around of course.

I think it's a very good idea. Better than 50 spearmen slogging across the board getting shot to death.

It's a real shame that Brettonian Knight units are capped as i would LOVE to horde Knights and a unit of 30+ Errants with characters would be nothing if not awsome. However i doubt brettonians would be as effective as say empire or O&G (even without unit size restrictions) as they they suffer from having fewer hero and lore options,

 brentyboi wrote:
It's a real shame that Brettonian Knight units are capped as i would LOVE to horde Knights and a unit of 30+ Errants with characters would be nothing if not awsome. However i doubt brettonians would be as effective as say empire or O&G (even without unit size restrictions) as they they suffer from having fewer hero and lore options,

Bret. Knights mostly suffer from price, really. They have a 2+ / 6+ Save by default, which improves to 2+ / 5+ versus S5 or better (well, technically this means somewhere between a 2+ / 6+ and 4+ / 6+ at low-end, 4+ / 5+ to / 5+ for high end). This is rather nice when compared to, say, 4+ / - for Wolf Riders, and makes them more durable than regular Empire Knights against anything ≤S3 or that negates saves.

But at 600pts minimum for 30? With no upgrades, and their base weapon being Lances at S3? Not too good. WR's / SR's are made better by having a ton of cheap characters give a very consistent number of S4 for if they fail to break the enemy, and S5 for attempting to break 'em. Brets still have S5 for breaking... but only S3 for if they fail. A front rank of characters makes things better (especially with how Lance Formation works), but they don't need to go in big hordes / bricks to negate steadfast like other armies (heck, 12 Bret Knights can take six casualties and still negate ranks whereas 15 Wolf Riders who take the same casualty count cannot).

Lore of Beasts / Life can make up for this, mind. T7 Knights are pretty tough after all, as are those benefiting from Wyssan's.

@Minsc. Precisely my point when comparing them to O&G, however on a durability scale. For 20pts an Errant a horde with buffs would be extremely hard to kill and once again for 800 points (with characters) it would be able to divert a lot of pain from Kotr lances