Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

By and large the only thing posable are the heads and arms on plastic Warjacks. Everything else, including Warbeasts, is static unless you're willing to do conversion and modeling work.

Noob9405 wrote:Holy f>%£ hmm I love the look of circle but I thought you couldn't go cc so changed my mind I may go back

most "excessive damage output" is caused by close combat. this is because of (a) charge bonuses, (b) generally higher damage ability, and (c) most damage buffs affect melee damage rolls. Dont get me wrong. Ranged is great. Even with measly POW10s you're shredding most infantry short of Man o War units with your most basic guns. But when it comes to absolute stomping, cc is where its at for the most part.

as for circle and cc. Yeah, well speak to eKaya. With her spell forced evolution, and with the help of a friendly Gorax, she can put Ghetorix (he's a character warpwolf with a space marine sized axe) up to P+S23. and he gets 6 attacks. believe me, thats monstrous. Ghetorix will shred anything in the game in a single turn with those buffs. and its not just eKaya that helps buff damage output, nor is it confined to Ghetorix. Stalkers, and feral warpwolves are disgusting in melee, and the constructs we have, whilst not as over the top as our wolves, are perfectly capable of handing anything its own backside. then there are tharn ravagers (shock troops who are disgusting on the charge), tharn bloodtrackers (disgusting with their spearchucking), the Lord of the Feast, tharn Whitemanes. heck, even our mst basic troops - the wolves of orboros can put serious hurt into things and those guys only have spears!

Noob9405 wrote:That's what I thought then I read something and it said there hit and run


Automatically Appended Next Post:
I think I seen somewhere the circle can spawn forests and I like that I think I'll pop a forest up the hide my warbeasts in it and move up that way, so what warlock can pop up forests

remember what i said about every faction being buildable mutiple ways. you dont like hit and run, so then dont play that style. you've got plenty more options. circle can do attrition (Baldur, Morvahna), alphastrike (kaya, Kromac), control/denial (baldur, Kromac), assassination (Kromac, Grayle). hit and run is only one of their tricks. and other factions do hit and run just as well. meet Vlad3 for example from Khador, or Morghul from the Skorne.

as for forests, if you want to create forests, look at the warlocks Baldur, and Morvahna, and look at the Stone Constructs, especially Megalith.

Noob9405 wrote:I don't want that I changed my mind because of it

keep them in mind. dont simply dismiss stuff. circle are a rocking good faction.

Noob9405 wrote:
Also with wh/ h is there any posing you can do? Or is it just putting the configuration you want?

posing wise - PP have a policy of use the model thats given. conversions must be like for like (so, swap an axe for another axe is fine, but swapping an axe for a flail isnt.) their policy is models must be identifiable without any hassle, but there is a get out of jail clause- ask your opponent and ask your local pressganger for tournaments. if they're OK with it, you can rock on. but so long as you're handy with pinning, and greenstuff, conversions are cool. want to put fur coats on everything? go for it. how about gasmasks on all your troops? fine. but replace your iron fangs with "counts as" sword knights? Sorry mate, wont pass muster!

Regarding the config - there is no swapping gear. the model''s card says what it has, and it doesnt change. this isnt 40k. you cant swap spell X for spell Y, or upgrade your "magical sword" to a "magical weapon-master weapon with reach". you cant upgrade your feats or swap your armour. what you have is what you have. its just the nature of the game really.

Hmmmm that sucks


Automatically Appended Next Post:
I don't like the no swapping or upgrading, but most of the models are kool, hmm that's a big turn off for me I want to model pose and swap

It really doesn't suck.

In a game where just about anything can do massive damage, and especially once you start playing death clock you need to be able to look at the other side of the table and know whats going on.

Now in a friendly game if you wanna try something out before you buy it, most people don't have a problem with you proxying a unit so long as they are on the same size base (its important).

 darefsky wrote:
It really doesn't suck.

In a game where just about anything can do massive damage, and especially once you start playing death clock you need to be able to look at the other side of the table and know whats going on.

Now in a friendly game if you wanna try something out before you buy it, most people don't have a problem with you proxying a unit so long as they are on the same size base (its important).

It's true. It really does make for a tight play experience knowing that any given model is going to perform a certain way.

Coming from 40k It's worth noting when I first heard about this I thought I was going to have fewer "Knobs to Turn" when it came to building my army, but the opposite is really true.

In 40k everything is very same-y except for the weapons. All your Orcs or Space Marines have almost identical stats and abilities, yeah character or leader might have +1 WS or some extra wounds, maybe with some dudes on bikes can move-and-fire or whatever but it's very homogeneous, even across factions. I mean sure a Space Marine with a Bolter is tougher and more accurate than a Guadman with a Lasgun, but they operate very similarly.

In Warmahordes every unit within a faction tend to be much more unique. Everything has special abilities, and with the exception of perhaps legion you'll rarely find rule that's on every model in a faction. Something like Warpborn Skinwalkers vs Tharn Bloodtrackers are incomparable in a way far beyond that of say Nobz vs Shoota Boyz. Any 2 pieces within a given faction are probably more different from each other than any 2 pieces from entirely different 40k factions.

This means from at least a list-building & gameplay experience standpoint, you get far more variety than weapon swapping in 40k would ever allow.

Ok but still I can't really customize the pose how you'd like it

 Noob9405 wrote:
Hmmmm that sucks


Automatically Appended Next Post:
I don't like the no swapping or upgrading, but most of the models are kool, hmm that's a big turn off for me I want to model pose and swap

Its just done differently. 40k does choice (badly!) on an individual level. warmachine does it on the unit level.

Khadoran men o war units. the khadoran heavy infantry. take shocktroops. halberd and shield cannon. you can have a squad of 5, and they'll all have halberds and shield cannon. and thats it. No customisation. But you also have two other flavours of man o war units to choose from as well, with the Demolition Korps, and the Bombardiers. Here is where the choice is. Dont want one? then pick the other. Rather than individual customisation, what warmachine offers is army level customisation. Its why no two warmachine/hordes armies ever look the same. And why most 40k armies do look the same. Look at it further: is the choice offered between shield korps/demo korps/bombardiers as whole units any different to "may swap a halberd/shield cannon for ice maul for free, or upgrade to a bombard for +2pts/squad) or is is simply a different approach to the game?

moving on, to be honest, you're kinda missing the point.

Options are not necessarily a good thing. despite *all* the individual options a 40k unit might have, only one or two builds are ever actually viable. the choice is an illusion, and nothing more. it sounds nice in theory, but it really doesnt work out. I'd argue a lot of the time, that even with choice, there is no choice in 40k games becxause there is always the *best option*.

What do i mean by this?

its why, with 40k, despite thousands of potential builds only a dozen are ever played and seen as viable, whereas the notion of "the khador army build" in warmachine just makes us chuckel - i've never seen two warmachine armies look or play the same. Whereas with Space Wolves, or any 40k army faction you care to name, a huge proportion of the armies on display will share a very large core percentage of choice. So is it choice, or the illusion of choice?

Ultimately, Privateer Press do what they do with regard to "this is the caster. bang" for one very good reason. balance. too many options does not give choice, it simply breeds imbalance. and as warmachine/hordes are one of the best balanced games out there, i have to say their stand on things is quite justified.

Ok I see what it getting at hmm but now I wanna know if they play it where ill be playing


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Also is there restrictions on how many troops and warbeasts I can take?

Warbeast usually don't have restrictions. They are either Field Allowance : Unlimited, which means you could make an army with only one beast repeated multiples times (although it would not be a good idea) or FA:Character, which means you can only have one in your army, no matter the size.

Units and solos on the other hand will have FA:X where X is a number between 1 and 3 (four maybe ?), or FA:C. So you couldn't make an army consisting only of Wolves of Orboros. But as you wouldn't want to (because once you have one it would be a better idea to take another thing) this is not a drawback.

Oh ok yeah I got an ap that has you and fa


Automatically Appended Next Post:
This iPod self correct pisses me off, I mean Uand Fa


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Any set colour scheme?

Noob9405 wrote:Ok but still I can't really customize the pose how you'd like it

you can customise the pose. its just a bit harder as 90% of the range is metal. you just have to be aware that conversions are a bit stricter.

Noob9405 wrote:
Also is there restrictions on how many troops and warbeasts I can take?

It depends. you have to look at the force allocation. you have "FA:C" which is character. meaning you only get one of these! sorry. no 2 sorscha's! you have FA:U which means you can take as many as your points allow. you also have FA:*number* which means you can have up to *that many* of them.

Bear in mind there are also tier lists which can swap things around for themed armies. For example, with Khador, Doom Reavers are normally FA:2 (meaning 2 squads max) but if you decide to run an Epic Butcher "Mad Dogs of War" theme list, their force allocation gets changed from FA:2 to FA:U. And running 8 squads of doom reavers, as i do, is a lot of fun!

Noob9405 wrote:
Any set colour scheme?

most people stick to either the standard scheme, or standard scheme with minor variations. But you dont have to. if you want pink cygnar with baby blue trim, go for it!

Ok I see what everyone's getting at now, now can I get some help picking a warlock?


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Also should I get the circle battle box with rule book or two player starter I have around 100$

 Noob9405 wrote:
Ok I see what everyone's getting at now, now can I get some help picking a warlock?

any particular style you're looking for?

Baldur: spamming forest templates, and overall a rock solid control/beatstick/generalist caster.
Baldur2: bit like the above, but more beatsticky and aggressive in style if you ask me.
Kaya: hit and run. likes her beasts.
kaya2: Alphastriking/assassination and beast focused.
Kromac: Alphastriking/assassination/magic denial. beast focused, with excellent toolbox spelllist. definately a personal favourite of mine.
Krueger: Lightning spewing Infantry shredding support spellslinger. my personal second choice to Kromac in a 2-list tournament.
Krueger2: your premier lightning sprewing control/denial/manipulator caster.
Morvahna: Infantry supporting spellslinging support caster who excels at attritonal playstyles.
Cassius: Control/manipulation support caster.
Mohsar: control/denial spell focused caster.

 Noob9405 wrote:

Also should I get the circle battle box with rule book or two player starter I have around 100$

up to you. i started with the circle battle box, kromac, gorax, totem hunter and lord of the feast. cost me about £80. 25pts and it was quite nasty. took second place at my first big tourney with it. that said, the only things i use with it now is the feral warpwolf, and sometimes an argus. kaya never clicked for me (my first pick, and still first choice warlock is kromac) and 2 argus is 1 too many. that said though, starter boxes are a fantastic way to cut your teeth with this game. going halfsies on the 2-player starter is a great option too, so long as you have an other half to grab the legion stuff! personal opinion; other people will have preferences for one or the other. or else they'll say pick up things individually. *shrug* up to you bud!

In addition to what Deadnight said, tons of people play everblight, you shouldn't have that much problem finding a buyer.

 Noob9405 wrote:
Ok I see what everyone's getting at now, now can I get some help picking a warlock?


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Also should I get the circle battle box with rule book or two player starter I have around 100$

The 2 Player Battle box is always the best bet if you are starting out and want one of the armies included. Basically for an extra $50 over the cost of the battlebox you get the rulebook (~ $20), a unit of infantry (~$30 - $40) and a whole other army to either play around with or sell/trade. Also, if I recall correctly, the 2 Player Hordes box has a argus and a winter argus instead of 2 argus, and from what I've heard winter argus are slightly better choices.

RegalPhantom wrote:

 Noob9405 wrote:
Ok I see what everyone's getting at now, now can I get some help picking a warlock?


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Also should I get the circle battle box with rule book or two player starter I have around 100$

The 2 Player Battle box is always the best bet if you are starting out and want one of the armies included. Basically for an extra $50 over the cost of the battlebox you get the rulebook (~ $20), a unit of infantry (~$30 - $40) and a whole other army to either play around with or sell/trade. Also, if I recall correctly, the 2 Player Hordes box has a argus and a winter argus instead of 2 argus, and from what I've heard winter argus are slightly better choices.

If you split it in half from a decent online retailer, you only pay around $38 for it assuming you split the box 50/50.

ill get 2 player but who's the caster for circle in that one?

 Noob9405 wrote:
ill get 2 player but who's the caster for circle in that one?

Kaya the Wildborne, or pKaya as she's commonly known. She's actually pretty good for learning in smaller games. A great place to start and figure out what you like about the game before making any commitments to anything.

Grrrr it's kaya hit and run what I don't want


Automatically Appended Next Post:
K cuz I'm getting this for chirstmas and I have no one around me that plays and I can't drive

 Noob9405 wrote:
Grrrr it's kaya hit and run what I don't want

Well, that's fine I suppose but it's still a good starting point. I mean the first games are just going to be learning about the mechanics in general it really wouldn't matter what caster you had, as you're not really going to be leveraging any of their specific tricks too well. Better to learn on a caster that's basically free (or steeply discounted at minimum), so that if you don't like them you're at no loss. Rather than investing money into a caster just to discover you hate or they're challenging to work with.

Also know that almost any Circle list is going to have some level of fiddling around with movement and being shifty (even if it's not strictly hit and run). Teleportation, Forced Movement and Mobility are just kind of their thing. They've got all of I think maybe 2 or 3 casters without any movement shenanigans in their arsenal.

Movements kool just not away from the enemy

 Noob9405 wrote:
Movements kool just not away from the enemy

try it warmachine style before you dismiss it

"hit and run" in this game isnt like 40k.

"Hit and run" means smash something to pulp and then line up for a new charge whilst they're punching at shadows.

Oh I thought it was hit run away so they can't hit u


Automatically Appended Next Post:
How do they expect you to pick a warlock when you can't see there card


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Seriously how?

Buy the faction book?

Or buy the model, every model comes with its stat card which is all you need to play with. The books are optional. In fact the faction card decks are probably better just for getting all the caqrds together(although it may be missing some cards)

 Noob9405 wrote:
Oh I thought it was hit run away so they can't hit u


Automatically Appended Next Post:
How do they expect you to pick a warlock when you can't see there card


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Seriously how?

http://battlecollege.wikispaces.com/

Battle College, you're first stop for any questions you may have about any unit.

 Noob9405 wrote:
Oh I thought it was hit run away so they can't hit u

Well, its that too. And how is that a bad thing? You need to understand the damage output of this game. Even the hardest of your pieces can be taken out in a single turn. The ability to inflict damage seriously outweighs anyone’s ability to withstand it.
In order to “take the punches”, you either need high ARM, lots of hits or extremely high DEF. and in each of these cases, there are workarounds. There is no “one trick” in this game – everything can be countered by something else. With Khador and Trolls, I love a good attrition game. It’s how they roll. But Circle? Yes, they can do it with a Baldur Construct list and with Skinwalkers. But why trade pieces when I can launch a meat-seeking missile into your lines, rip stuff to shreds, and rather than lose it to the inevitable counter attack next turn, I get to put it back and relaunch it next turn? Its simply good tactics.

 Noob9405 wrote:

How do they expect you to pick a warlock when you can't see there card
Seriously how?

Forces of War: Circle for a start. Gives you the fluff, rules and stats for everything circly up to the release of Domination and Gargantuans. Failing that, buy the model, and check the rules. Failing that, there are online resources like battlecollege (useful for a quick skim, but it has too many errors to be taken as true and infallible gospel, but it’s a good start nonetheless)

That site isn't working for me

 Noob9405 wrote:
That site isn't working for me

Try doing a google search for Battle college. Other than that, I don't know.

 Surtur wrote:

http://battlecollege.wikispaces.com/

Battle College, you're first stop for any questions you may have about any unit.

First step. But by all that is holy don't let it be your last. Great place for getting the basics, but the write ups don;t tend to be very in depth. You are usually better off checking out the PP forums. Almost every faction has stickies and writeups that will usually tell you much more and more varied opinions. Though sometimes those forums get kind of stuck in the mud as well.

Frankly, I recommend you buy the book for any faction you are about to start playing. And possibly the 2010 MkII deck as well. Unless you are really tight on cash.