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 DeathReaper wrote:
How does that make what I said untrue?

We have permission to disembark from a vehicle. as long as it has been stationary or moved 6 inches or less.

When you disembark from a flyer that has not moved yet you are allowed to disembark because the vehicle has not moved in the current movement phase.

Can you provide a page number and directions to the rules that disallow disembarking from a stationary flyer, because I have shown permission to disembark from a stationary vehicle. P.79 under Disembarking.

Disembarking before the flyer moves is fine. Since you cannot disembark from a Zooming Flyer, however, the Flyer choosing to Zoom after the disembark would be breaking a rule.

rigeld2 wrote:

 DeathReaper wrote:
How does that make what I said untrue?

We have permission to disembark from a vehicle. as long as it has been stationary or moved 6 inches or less.

When you disembark from a flyer that has not moved yet you are allowed to disembark because the vehicle has not moved in the current movement phase.

Can you provide a page number and directions to the rules that disallow disembarking from a stationary flyer, because I have shown permission to disembark from a stationary vehicle. P.79 under Disembarking.

Since you cannot disembark from a Zooming Flyer

Can you provide a page number please, because I could not find it.

Also, the Flyer is not zooming when you disembark, so the unit is not disembarking from a zooming flyer.

 DeathReaper wrote:

rigeld2 wrote:

 DeathReaper wrote:
How does that make what I said untrue?

We have permission to disembark from a vehicle. as long as it has been stationary or moved 6 inches or less.

When you disembark from a flyer that has not moved yet you are allowed to disembark because the vehicle has not moved in the current movement phase.

Can you provide a page number and directions to the rules that disallow disembarking from a stationary flyer, because I have shown permission to disembark from a stationary vehicle. P.79 under Disembarking.

Since you cannot disembark from a Zooming Flyer

Can you provide a page number please, because I could not find it.

Also, the Flyer is not zooming when you disembark, so the unit is not disembarking from a zooming flyer.

Page 80, right side, middle paragraph of the Flyer rules, last sentence.
And if the Flyer then Zooms, it is a Zooming Flyer that disembarked troops - which is illegal.

rigeld2 wrote:

Page 80, right side, middle paragraph of the Flyer rules, last sentence.
And if the Flyer then Zooms, it is a Zooming Flyer that disembarked troops - which is illegal.

Thank you for the reference, I must have skipped that graph.

However the rule says "models cannot ...disembark from a Zooming Flyer." It does not say "models cannot ...disembark from a Flyer that is going to perform a zoom move this phase."

Of course that is strict RAW. The RAI is probably a little different.

Troops disembark.
Flyer Zooms.
Did the troops disembark from a Zooming Flyer?

A zooming flyer may never voluntarily move less than 18" pg 80. Disembarking is a voluntary action that limits the Flyer to a 6" move.

Fragile wrote:
A zooming flyer may never voluntarily move less than 18" pg 80. Disembarking is a voluntary action that limits the Flyer to a 6" move.

there are no rules to back up the underlined assertation.

rigeld2 wrote:
Troops disembark.
Flyer Zooms.
Did the troops disembark from a Zooming Flyer?

No, they disembarked from a vehicle that was a stationary vehicle, as the vehicle had not moved when they disembarked.

I disagree. If the Flyer Zooms in the same turn that troops Disembark from it, a rule has been broken*.

The grammar is awkward but the intent is clear, especially given the consequence of using the interpretation you're championing, DR: That no flyer would ever be forced to slow to Hover mode in order to disembark Troops.


(*Invasion Beams, Grav Chutes, Skies of Blood and Shadow Skies aside)

Page 79 reads as model can hop out before the vehicle moved or after the vehicles has moved less than 6". It doesn't look to limit the ability of a vehicle to dump it's troops and then blast away as fast as it can.

However the restriction on no disembarking from a zooming flyer seems redundant if you take into account the rules on disembarking. I think that from the context it is clear that at no point is it allowed to disembark from a zooming flyer unless another rule allows it such as skies of blood etc.

 Mannahnin wrote:
I disagree. If the Flyer Zooms in the same turn that troops Disembark from it, a rule has been broken*.

The grammar is awkward but the intent is clear, especially given the consequence of using the interpretation you're championing, DR: That no flyer would ever be forced to slow to Hover mode in order to disembark Troops.


(*Invasion Beams, Grav Chutes, Skies of Blood and Shadow Skies aside)

I agree with you on the intent, but the RaW and the RaI do not match up.

I think RAW and RAI do match up. "Cannot disembark from a zooming flyer" is not the same as "cannot disembark from a flyer that has zoomed".
The first prevents a flyer from zooming after troops disembark as well as preventing troops disembarking after a flyer has zoomed. The second is a redundant statement that just backs up the rules on disembarking.

Except that the Flyer is not "a zooming flyer" if it has not moved.

P. 80 "Zooming allows the Flyer to move at fantastic speeds, making it very difficult to shoot down, but limiting its maneuverability. If a Flyer Zooms, it has a combat speed of 18 inches and a cruising speed of 36 inches"

This establishes how a Zooming flyer moves and that it must move at least 18 inches. If a flyer has not moved it can not be "a zooming flyer".

Since the models disembarked and the flyer had not moved, the flyer can not be a zooming flyer at the time of the disembark, and thus a (Technically) legal disembark.

A Flyer is still Zooming during your opponents shooting and movement phase. There's nothing removing the Zooming state during your movement phase until you select that vehicle to move.

All fliers are zooming fliers unless they choose not to be. So all fliers are zooming unless they take advantage of other rules.
You have the cart before the horse here.

 DeathReaper wrote:
Except that the Flyer is not "a zooming flyer" if it has not moved.

P. 80 "Zooming allows the Flyer to move at fantastic speeds, making it very difficult to shoot down, but limiting its maneuverability. If a Flyer Zooms, it has a combat speed of 18 inches and a cruising speed of 36 inches"

This establishes how a Zooming flyer moves and that it must move at least 18 inches. If a flyer has not moved it can not be "a zooming flyer".

Since the models disembarked and the flyer had not moved, the flyer can not be a zooming flyer at the time of the disembark, and thus a (Technically) legal disembark.

I think you're making a mistake in assuming a flyer isn't zooming if it hasn't moved. Flyers have to declare whether they are zooming or hovering before they move or arrive from reserves, and stay that type unless they swap to the other mode in a later movement phase.

rigeld2 wrote:
A Flyer is still Zooming during your opponents shooting and movement phase. There's nothing removing the Zooming state during your movement phase until you select that vehicle to move.

Can you provide a page number please, because I can not find where it says this.

Maybe I am missing this bit somewhere but I swear I have read those rules on 80-81 like 5 times over now trying to make sense of them.

 DeathReaper wrote:

rigeld2 wrote:
A Flyer is still Zooming during your opponents shooting and movement phase. There's nothing removing the Zooming state during your movement phase until you select that vehicle to move.

Can you provide a page number please, because I can not find where it says this.

Maybe I am missing this bit somewhere but I swear I have read those rules on 80-81 like 5 times over now trying to make sense of them.

p. 81, in the "Hover 'Type'" sidebar.

There is not any words on "p. 81, in the "Hover 'Type'" sidebar." that says "A Flyer is still Zooming during your opponents shooting and movement phase." It may be somewhere else, but it is not in the sidebar.

Only zooming flyers can evade, yes? So they MUST be zooming in your opponents phase?

So once you declare that they are Zooming, they remain Zooming until you declare that they are Hovering.

 DeathReaper wrote:
There is not any words on "p. 81, in the "Hover 'Type'" sidebar." that says "A Flyer is still Zooming during your opponents shooting and movement phase." It may be somewhere else, but it is not in the sidebar.

There are multiple references to how other models interact with zooming flyers outside of the movement phase. If zooming flyers were only zooming during the course of their move, we could ram, assault, and shoot them at full BS, and they wouldn't be able to declare barrel rolls when shot at.

 Mannahnin wrote:
So once you declare that they are Zooming, they remain Zooming until you declare that they are Hovering.

There we go. Thank you.

I knew I was missing something, but the rules did not say you were zooming, but they actually do as you declare zoom in your previous turn and nothing revokes the zooming until you declare zoom or hover for the vehicle.

P.S. it has been a very long week.

Cheers! Always good to work one through.

So to sum up, you can only disembark troops from a flyer if:

1) You declare Hover mode then disembark or move the vehicle no more than 6 inches and disembark.
Or
2) You declared Hover on your last turn and you disembark your unit before the vehicle moves. The vehicle is then free to move normally, either Zoom or Hover mode.

Points 1 and 2 sound correct to you guys?

1 looks right. I still think the rule I originally quoted binds the transport to moving no more than 6" on the same turn the unit disembarks, even if it didn't move before the unit got out.

A) If a transport was in hover mode on your last turn, it is in hover mode until you declare Zooming and move the unit.
Do we agree on point A?

B) If you are in hover mode you can disembark.
Do we agree on point B?

C) After you disembark from a stationary transport, the transport may move normally.
Do we agree on point C?

A is good. B is good.
C is good so long as the flyer doesn't zoom. IMHO I think it is a blanket ban on disembarking from a zooming flyer.
Thing is I doubt there will be many situations where flyers disembark after a turn of being a hovering flyer,embark would be more important.

I don't see a general restriction on vehciles moving 6" only after a unit disembarks but I do see one for flyers that are zooming(or about to declare zooming).

 DeathReaper wrote:
A) If a transport was in hover mode on your last turn, it is in hover mode until you declare Zooming and move the unit.
Do we agree on point A?

B) If you are in hover mode you can disembark.
Do we agree on point B?

C) After you disembark from a stationary transport, the transport may move normally.
Do we agree on point C?

Hrm. I'm still kind of on the fence, but after sleeping on it I'm more inclined to think this does actually work, which would certainly make Vendettas and Stormravens even better...

Either way, you still need to keep your flyer in hover for a whole round of shooting, so it doesn't seem like a major worry to me. It's just an extra bit of flexibility.

 liturgies of blood wrote:
C is good so long as the flyer doesn't zoom. IMHO I think it is a blanket ban on disembarking from a zooming flyer.


I don't see a general restriction on vehciles moving 6" only after a unit disembarks but I do see one for flyers that are zooming(or about to declare zooming).

"C is good so long as the flyer doesn't zoom" Why?

It has been proven that the flyer was in hover mode last turn and stays that way until you declare movement for the flyer before the flyer moves this turn. Why can you not disembark and move normally?

P.79 says "If the vehicle had not moved before the unit disembarked, the vehicle can then move normally."

Where is the restriction for the underlined?