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 Jancoran wrote:
But unless you're fearless, you care a lot about this kind of tactic.

No you really don't, because LD 9-10 units don't really fear pinning much, and LD 9-10 units with 2+ saves really don't fear it. It's just a random threat that occasionally hurts you, not something you change your list and/or tactics to avoid.

And what do Kroot do for 3 points less that's worth saving those points in 6E?

Err, what? Where are you getting the idea that kroot are only 3 points cheaper?

Here's what you get:
22 rapid firing kroot shots = 1.83 wounds on the enemy.
6 Pathfinder shots at BS 5 = 1.11 wounds plus pinning

Wait, why exactly are we comparing 77 points worth of Kroot to 6 BS 5 pathfinder shots which cost significantly more than 77 points?

So you're going to let the enemy charge you just to get in an extra .72 wounds MAYBE?

You'd have a point if pinning was guaranteed, not a small chance.

Also, yes, I would gladly give up that small chance of pinning to do an average of 60% more wounds each shooting phase. And to make my bubblewrap much cheaper per unit of area covered with it.

And if i took 15 kroot for 105 points in kroot or 6 Pathfinders with Railrifles:

Why are you dishonestly comparing 105 points of kroot to 132 points of pathfinders, ignoring the cost of the extra squad members and devilfish for the pathfinders, and then giving the pathfinders BS 5 for free?

So when they lose...and they both generally will... 10 kroot lose by 7.035. 6 pathfinders lose by 4.81. Despite it all, the Pathfinders have the better chance of holding the line!

Which is the absolute WORST outcome you can get, since it means that the unit is locked in combat in your shooting phase and immune to shooting, finishes off the unit in your assault phase, and gets to act freely in your opponent's turn. The Kroot, on the other hand, lose combat by enough to pretty much ensure that they run, the target unit is standing around in the open for your shooting phase, and dies. The job of bubblewrap is to take the first charge, then die and get out of the way so you can get back to shooting.

(In theory you can also have a tarpit that traps a unit for several turns, but Tau can't do that.)

Jefffar wrote:

 Grey Templar wrote:
Each Rifle doesn't cause a seperate pinning test.

Yes and no.

My tripling of his number was because he only had 1 rifle shooting. 3x the shots increases the likelihood of a wound 3x which increases the likelihood of taking the test by three times which increases the likelihood of the target unit winding up pinned by . . .

Perhaps, but its still such a laughably feable thing to do. I couldn't care less if my Tac squad gets pinned. Especially when to reliably do it you have to shoot several units and expend marker lights. Those are marker lights not getting used to make Crisis suits BS5 or reduce my cover saves against Railguns.

The Devil Fish is very useful. It screens my broadsides.
9 S6 AP3 shots @ 36" is pretty good for the points.
3 turns of shooting at Marines usually recoups their cost. Of course, my opponent might be shooting back at 4 guys, but I'm ok with that too. Waste the firepower of a whole unit to deal with 77 points of non-scoring fast attack.

I wouldn't ever count on pinning. If you pin once every other game, be grateful. IMO, it's a huge waste to build for, or attempt to pin with them. Far better off removing cover saves from the target when the battle suits kill them.

-Matt

HawaiiMatt wrote:
The Devil Fish is very useful. It screens my broadsides.

Sure, but you can't just ignore its cost even if you find a use for it somehow.

9 S6 AP3 shots @ 36" is pretty good for the points.

Actually it's terrible, since it's barely more effective than an equal point cost in fire warriors (and significantly worse inside 15") while not being a scoring unit.

Thanks for all the different angles people, the only reason why I was considering taking said rail rifles was so I might be able to have more use for the pathfinders instead of devilfish package deal and just markerlights. Just to give more choices if/when I would need them. When pinning a troop would give my FWs just that extra turn to hold an objective.

I already intend to run tetras to help out the railheads and broadsides. But with all this debating it might give me pause to consider what I want, again, thanks all.

Well Peregrine, clearly you can't read in context. So I will just say this: intentionally being obtuse surely does nothing to enhance your point.

Nuff said. Pathfinders are a good unit. Use em.

 Jancoran wrote:
Well Peregrine, clearly you can't read in context. So I will just say this: intentionally being obtuse surely does nothing to enhance your point.

No, you just don't provide any kind of context that makes rail rifle pathfinders good. You ignore the fact that pinning is incredibly unreliable at best, and you make ridiculous comparisons between units that don't even cost the same amount of points.

Nuff said. Pathfinders are a good unit. Use em.

You mean Tetras are a good unit. Pathfinders are just the unit you settle for when you can't have Tetras, and you take them for their markerlights, not for their rail rifles.