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The reasons I don't run stormravens in my lists are because:

1. I prefer to spend the points on more grey knight troops instead. Each raven can get me a 10-man bare bones strike squad. Kit the raven out to be anti-infantry as well and you can get psycannons and psybolt + hammer for those knights.

2. I liked the ravens better when transporting passengers was less risky. Now, part of its utility has gone as you don't really want to ferry your guys inside them unless you play against an army with little to no AA.

3. Stormravens are not really balanced units. The reason why I normally take stormravens is for the purpose of AA/AT. Sure you can kit them out to deal with infantry as well, but now you are looking at cost of a land raider. In any case, the meta has shifted as more and more people are running foot-based armies. Against such opponents/armies, the ravens can't really do much. Basically, to me, the ravens are not all-purpose vehicles but more as role players. And as role players, I don't like anything that costs more than 150-pts and who cannot at the very least contest enemy objectives.

4. The more ravens you have, the less your foot-presence will be. And unless your foot-units are really resilient (i.e. horde units, wraiths, massed infantry, deathstars, etc.), that just makes it easier for me to deal with the rest of your army as I can just ignore the ravens for a couple of turns. Actually for me, I tend to ignore them for the entire game until my AT firepower has nothing else better to shoot at.


Now I am not saying that the raven is bad. It's just not my thing anymore. Gone are the days in which I used to run expensive transports with limited firepower (i.e. my triple-landraider daemonhunter days). Nowadays, I'm just more of an infantry-man (with the exception of my necron army).

To me this report just shows how nasty 'nids can be with the new psychic powers. They have been a real buff to one of the weaker codices.

Note to self: shoot the psychers!

It is quite easy to hit a Flyrant with Mindstrike missiles. Either ground it with shooting, your twin linked lascannons can do that, or wait for it to go to ground. If the Flyrant is spreading every turn in the air, then it isn't doing enough damage and that's a win for the GK.

The bigger point is the Tyranids have no answer to the Stormraven. The Raven has 2 high str low AP weapons, 4 Mindstrike missile (which can rip through Tervigons just as easily) and hurricane bolters to put out 12 twin linked Bolter shots at close range on little bugs.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Lets try a more diverse list instead of spamming the same 2 units throughout the army list. I love reading these battle reports, but JY2 loves spam almost as much as Mercer.

Has it ever occurred that the reason you have trouble against Janthkin and even Reecius kitchen sink marines is because they don't spam. They have redundant weapons on multiple defensive platforms and they can work to eliminate the one angle in the enemy list that is weakest and thereby win with the counter to that in their list.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 jy2 wrote:
The reasons I don't run stormravens in my lists are because:

1. I prefer to spend the points on more grey knight troops instead. Each raven can get me a 10-man bare bones strike squad. Kit the raven out to be anti-infantry as well and you can get psycannons and psybolt + hammer for those knights.

2. I liked the ravens better when transporting passengers was less risky. Now, part of its utility has gone as you don't really want to ferry your guys inside them unless you play against an army with little to no AA.

3. Stormravens are not really balanced units. The reason why I normally take stormravens is for the purpose of AA/AT. Sure you can kit them out to deal with infantry as well, but now you are looking at cost of a land raider. In any case, the meta has shifted as more and more people are running foot-based armies. Against such opponents/armies, the ravens can't really do much. Basically, to me, the ravens are not all-purpose vehicles but more as role players. And as role players, I don't like anything that costs more than 150-pts and who cannot at the very least contest enemy objectives.

4. The more ravens you have, the less your foot-presence will be. And unless your foot-units are really resilient (i.e. horde units, wraiths, massed infantry, deathstars, etc.), that just makes it easier for me to deal with the rest of your army as I can just ignore the ravens for a couple of turns. Actually for me, I tend to ignore them for the entire game until my AT firepower has nothing else better to shoot at.


Now I am not saying that the raven is bad. It's just not my thing anymore. Gone are the days in which I used to run expensive transports with limited firepower (i.e. my triple-landraider daemonhunter days). Nowadays, I'm just more of an infantry-man (with the exception of my necron army).

You do not need more foot troops. You have enough and more foot troops means more points spent on units that can not affect the Flyrants. In that respect the Stormraven is perfectly balanced for this type of Strikesquad list. It complements it by doing something even 100 strikes can not do. Reliably deal with a toughness 9 Flyrant. if you are worried about reserves, then get psychic communion in the list to control your reserves better.. It sure would have helped bring in the Dreadknight and reserved strikes earlier.

I will second the opinion that ravens wouldn't have helped as much as some think - damage output to the flyrants would have been minimal due to iron arm and ability to lurk in area terrain for a 5+ without evading. Flight paths would also ensure only 1 round of shooting every 2.5 turns unless the ravens went to hover mode, losing skyfire and leaving themselves open to hive guard/ smash assaults. No, overall I think more boots on the ground was the better list option for the GKs despite the loss.

It's a new world order -- tyranids are a force to be reckoned with (finally) in 6th edition.

 SabrX wrote:

I doubt Crowe Purifiers will fair any better. Sure they have cleansing flame, but have too few bodies.

I need to re-work my Crowe-Purifiers GK build. As it is currently, I'm not sure it can compete with the best armies anymore. Even towards the end of 5th, I was starting to add more bodies to it (i.e. my 'Ard Boyz purifier list included 20 strikers to bulk up on the numbers).

When I start to revisit my purifiers - probably after the Bay Area Open - I think I'm going to have to use allies. I think the next evolution of my purifiers are going to include some IG. Either that or just run my purifiers as Elites with Coteaz at the helm (like what Grey Therion is doing).

Anyways, we will see. I'm sure I can make them kick-ass again, even if they will no longer be a pure GK army.

 sudojoe wrote:

While the volume of fire seems impressive from the foot knights, I'm just not sure it'd stand up to like flamer spam from daemons, (I'd get in via movements and deep strike further away) or salvo banner from DA's, or IG pie plates for that matter. Venom spam with night shields would also give this fits as far as I can see. The psyfle dread could definately help but the range problems seem like it can be devestating.

You bet they can stand up to daemons. And it isn't because of Warp Quake or Coteaz's I'll Be Expecting You (although those definitely help). Army-wide Prefered Enemy combined with S5-stormbolters is just pure nastiness against daemons, even when buffed by Fateweaver. As a matter of fact, I feel that daemons will be the underdog in such a matchup. The difference-maker would, of course, be terrain. Play on Nova-type terrain - with a huge LOS-blocking terrain right in the middle, kind of like in this game - and daemons then become the favored in such a matchup.

Venom-spam, however, will be a problem for the knights unless they run with 3 psyflemans.

DarthDiggler wrote:
Did the Dreadknight deny the witch on those enfeebles at a 5+?

Yes he did. He passed 1 out of 3 only, which is statistically average.

I have to agree that shooting the Flyrants was the way to go. It is not always wise to shoot the easy things, its better to shoot the things that will do the most damage to you.

You just need to hit to ground them. In grounding they take a str 9 ap 2 hit which is enough to get through the iron arm and wound them. On the ground, toughness 9 creatures are hurt by poison and Rending. Psycannons rend. Rewrite the list to include a more balanced approach and include more rending to deal with toughness 9 creatures. Either that or Terminators with multiple thunder hammers. Ground them and assault them.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
And I agree with the above post. A GK Stormraven would make a mockery of the Flyrants. Lascannon, multimelta, mind strike missiles will all hurt the Flyrants fast. Throw in hurricane bolters on the Raven and it can help take out gargoyles and Termagants in droves.

It would really depend on the situation. If the stormbolters even had a chance to hurt my flyrant, then I'd say, yeah, go for it! But against a T9 TMC, those S5 stormbolters are just wasted. All you are really doing is relying on Grounding and the psycannons, which would need 6's to hit and then 6's to wound. At T9, that means grounding only has a 1 in 6 chance to hurt it and you would need 36 psycannon shots to even cause 1 wound! I really don't like those odds.

And how would a GK raven make a mockery out of the flyrants? Even bringing in 3 ravens, you won't reliably kill 1 flyrant, at least not in 1 turn, especially if he is buffed up with Iron Arm or Endurance (or even both) and in cover/jinking. That's 600+ pts of your army there that can't even reliably take it down. And don't think a savvy tyranid general will even give you the opportunity to alpha-strike his flyrant. If I am really concerned about your flyers coming in and trying to kill my flyrant, you know where my flyrant will be? That's right, he's going to be locked in combat with Coteaz' stubborn unit or with some other unit. Just like I locked him in combat with some guardsmen to protect him against 3 vendettas in my battle against IG.

 Griddlelol wrote:
To me this report just shows how nasty 'nids can be with the new psychic powers. They have been a real buff to one of the weaker codices.

Note to self: shoot the psychers!

Easier said than done, especially when that psyker is T9, has 4-6 wounds and cover as well!

Tyranids are beasting this edition. Changes to psychic powers really helped them out. From these battle reports all I can really glean is that to beat them you either have to have crazy good luck with getting first turn and rolling to hit and wound or the Tyranids have to have terrible luck with saves, rolling for psychic powers, and grounding tests.

Honestly, I think Grey Knights have to tailor a list to beat an army like this with such high toughness, flying psykers. Requires more accurate and high powered shots. Dual auto cannon dreads, maybe henchman spam with a lot of jokero, henchmen with plasmas, maybe some servitors. I just don't think a TAC GK list could ever stand up effectively to this big bug rush.

DarthDiggler wrote:
It is quite easy to hit a Flyrant with Mindstrike missiles. Either ground it with shooting, your twin linked lascannons can do that, or wait for it to go to ground. If the Flyrant is spreading every turn in the air, then it isn't doing enough damage and that's a win for the GK.

Actually, I am finding shooting to do more damage than its assault. That's because of that damn ATSKNF. It is just too good. Even a 5-man marine unit can keep the flyrant tied up for 2-3 turns. They lose, you catch them and they remain fighting or they lose, you don't catch them, they regroup on their turn and now you are out in the open for the whole army to shoot down. No, I'd rather keep my flyrants up in the air for as long as possible.

Against non-ATSKNF units however, his assault is pretty good. Just be aware that if you don't kill off his unit on his assault phase, you're probably going to lose your flyrant to his shooting.

The bigger point is the Tyranids have no answer to the Stormraven. The Raven has 2 high str low AP weapons, 4 Mindstrike missile (which can rip through Tervigons just as easily) and hurricane bolters to put out 12 twin linked Bolter shots at close range on little bugs.

My answer to the raven is to just ignore it. What can you do? Besides, after it discharges its mindstrikes, it becomes rather harmless to nids IMO. Also, mindstrikes can be mitigated somewhat by FNP from Endurance or Catalyst.

Automatically Appended Next Post:
Lets try a more diverse list instead of spamming the same 2 units throughout the army list. I love reading these battle reports, but JY2 loves spam almost as much as Mercer.

Has it ever occurred that the reason you have trouble against Janthkin and even Reecius kitchen sink marines is because they don't spam. They have redundant weapons on multiple defensive platforms and they can work to eliminate the one angle in the enemy list that is weakest and thereby win with the counter to that in their list.

I'm in the camp that spamming works. Though currently, I'm trying to spam less with my bugs and Chaos armies. With the exception of the troops (because you need more of them), now I try not to take more than 2 of any units at 2K or below. I really am trying to get away from over-spamming but with certain army builds, sometimes it just can't be helped. Like when I want to run S5-stormbolter-spam, I need to take a lot of GK strikers for that to work.

BTW, I'm up on both Reecius' and Janthkin's kitchen-sink armies. But both are awesome players who always make each battle a challenge to conquer.

You do not need more foot troops. You have enough and more foot troops means more points spent on units that can not affect the Flyrants. In that respect the Stormraven is perfectly balanced for this type of Strikesquad list. It complements it by doing something even 100 strikes can not do. Reliably deal with a toughness 9 Flyrant. if you are worried about reserves, then get psychic communion in the list to control your reserves better.. It sure would have helped bring in the Dreadknight and reserved strikes earlier.

I'm thinking that if I want to run stormravens, then I'm probably going to have to design a completely different list. I'm going to have to include some cheaper troops to complement the more expensive ravens. That's where the Inquisition or allied guards come in. There will be strikers still. They just won't be the focus of my offense.

As far as my current list goes, I'm thinking about swapping out 1 unit of strikers for another unit of henchmen. Then with the leftover points, get 1 psyfleman and perhaps 1 or 2 teleporters for my dreadknights.




Automatically Appended Next Post:

 gpfunk wrote:
Tyranids are beasting this edition. Changes to psychic powers really helped them out. From these battle reports all I can really glean is that to beat them you either have to have crazy good luck with getting first turn and rolling to hit and wound or the Tyranids have to have terrible luck with saves, rolling for psychic powers, and grounding tests.

Honestly, I think Grey Knights have to tailor a list to beat an army like this with such high toughness, flying psykers. Requires more accurate and high powered shots. Dual auto cannon dreads, maybe henchman spam with a lot of jokero, henchmen with plasmas, maybe some servitors. I just don't think a TAC GK list could ever stand up effectively to this big bug rush.

It's quite ironic how the tables have turned. In 5E, grey knights were a terrible matchup for tyranids, but now in 6E, tyranids have become a horrible matchup for most MEQ armies. That doesn't mean that the GK's can't handle them - they still can depending on what psychic powers the bugs get - however, I feel that currently, the advantage has tipped slightly in favor of tyranids in a matchup between the 2.





Automatically Appended Next Post:

 tetrisphreak wrote:
I will second the opinion that ravens wouldn't have helped as much as some think - damage output to the flyrants would have been minimal due to iron arm and ability to lurk in area terrain for a 5+ without evading. Flight paths would also ensure only 1 round of shooting every 2.5 turns unless the ravens went to hover mode, losing skyfire and leaving themselves open to hive guard/ smash assaults. No, overall I think more boots on the ground was the better list option for the GKs despite the loss.

It's a new world order -- tyranids are a force to be reckoned with (finally) in 6th edition.

Agreed 1000%.

As an aside, we really don't need synapse giving us EW as is rumoured for our next release. That would IMO actually make us kind of OP.

do you have any matchups against mech DE?

 Mafty wrote:
do you have any matchups against mech DE?

No, but I want to.

I may just proxy a game with them, though if I do batrep it, it'll probably be without pictures.

 tetrisphreak wrote:
I will second the opinion that ravens wouldn't have helped as much as some think - damage output to the flyrants would have been minimal due to iron arm and ability to lurk in area terrain for a 5+ without evading. Flight paths would also ensure only 1 round of shooting every 2.5 turns unless the ravens went to hover mode, losing skyfire and leaving themselves open to hive guard/ smash assaults. No, overall I think more boots on the ground was the better list option for the GKs despite the loss.

It's a new world order -- tyranids are a force to be reckoned with (finally) in 6th edition.

The results of the batrep proved more boots on the ground didn't work and the Flyrants were untouchable. A SR would have forced jy2 to play much less aggressively with his Tyrants. It's not like most games both Tyrants will get Iron Arm... This was just a one off case... Not something I'd count on happening a lot.

 Dozer Blades wrote:

 tetrisphreak wrote:
I will second the opinion that ravens wouldn't have helped as much as some think - damage output to the flyrants would have been minimal due to iron arm and ability to lurk in area terrain for a 5+ without evading. Flight paths would also ensure only 1 round of shooting every 2.5 turns unless the ravens went to hover mode, losing skyfire and leaving themselves open to hive guard/ smash assaults. No, overall I think more boots on the ground was the better list option for the GKs despite the loss.

It's a new world order -- tyranids are a force to be reckoned with (finally) in 6th edition.

The results of the batrep proved more boots on the ground didn't work and the Flyrants were untouchable. A SR would have forced jy2 to play much less aggressively with his Tyrants. It's not like most games both Tyrants will get Iron Arm... This was just a one off case... Not something I'd count on happening a lot.

Actually, if anything, this game tells me that there is NOT enough boots on the ground. If the GK army had less models on the ground, the game would've probably wrapped up even earlier.

Then again, I agree that this game was an exception rather than the norm. Normally, I'd be happy if even 1 flyrant can get Iron Arm.

I need to re-work my Crowe-Purifiers GK build. As it is currently, I'm not sure it can compete with the best armies anymore. Even towards the end of 5th, I was starting to add more bodies to it (i.e. my 'Ard Boyz purifier list included 20 strikers to bulk up on the numbers).

When I start to revisit my purifiers - probably after the Bay Area Open - I think I'm going to have to use allies. I think the next evolution of my purifiers are going to include some IG. Either that or just run my purifiers as Elites with Coteaz at the helm (like what Grey Therion is doing).

Anyways, we will see. I'm sure I can make them kick-ass again, even if they will no longer be a pure GK army.

This is pretty much what I've found after much experimenting in 6th. Heck, it's one of the first paragraphs of my giant GK tactical lol. The more I play around with different things, the more I see GK as the allied detatchment rather than as the main just because of their elite nature though I'll always keep trying as GK has been my first and "main" army though now I play with enough marines to sub in as any flavor practically, some eldar now, IG, daemons, Tau, necrons, and sisters lol.

I'm very interested in what you plan to do with the purifiers JY2. Through my testing, I definately don't do the rhino rush with them anymore execpt as mobile cover. It's just a 40 point marine as far as I can tell and my guys just run around behind it for LOS and the rhino just moves flat outs usually. Henchmen are almost necessary for such a list and it's pretty dependent on decent cover along with decent fire lanes which invariably means some sort of castle formation/hide in LOS. Between shadows in the warp, runes of warding, runic weapons, and other anti-psyker madness at least locally, I'm mostly not depending on any sort of assault though I always "threaten" to assault via positioning.

I only manage to run purifiers as an elite now a days and the core is coteaz henchemen with some strikes for warpquake, a storm raven for anti-tank/range/ flier, a bastion or ADL with quad/las cannon (more las cannons the mroe I play it seems), a DK or 2 depending on points and usually a psyfle just cause it counters a ton of stuff still.

I've managed a win with my crowe purifiers as a solo force just once with a decent opponent running wolves+ guard but mostly cause I got lucky and the enemy got greedy and put his valkyries into hover range and I got in a good assault on them with just 3 purifiers which still tore them up. Also incredibly lucky that my storm raven came in super late and was a threat to his movement the whole time and killed off both of his hydras that were hiding behind an aegis all game the turn it arrived which was kind of rare. It was more luck than tactics that I won that game I feel like.

Really I think all test games against forces of good should be run with an allied sw or eldar detachment. I am not going to the BAO because I live in Maine lol (would love too) but if I could advocate one thing to people attending:

Bring psycher defense!

If you can ally a farseer or a Rune priest I just do not understand why you wouldn't. They shut down certain armies like this bug build. They are also super cheap and buff your army in other match ups, I think it's a no brainer.

As a GK, I'd be hard pressed to take eldar allies as it kind of screws with my own powers as well so it's not ideal. Wolves in drop pods and meltas however have proven very strong for me. With proper pre-measuring, it's not too hard to use and you can get like 2 rune priests per HQ slot so it's pretty darn good. Just keep 24' away from things you want to cast and it's a good combination. Since I normally use them somewhat suicidally or with long fangs in cover as a dual castle formation it's usually not that big a deal.

My Crowe Purifier list is doing great in 6th edition. I think Strike based armies are terribad as proved by this batrep.

 Dozer Blades wrote:
My Crowe Purifier list is doing great in 6th edition. I think Strike based armies are terribad as proved by this batrep.

I don't know about that, strike based armies are still a great counter to drop pod, demon and deathwing style lists. All of course before your factor in their own deep strike potential and awesome rate of fir with psybolt ammo. I do think though that strikes are complemented greatly by purifires, whos fearless and additional gear/CF make them amazing, I just think maybe a comfortable mix need be implemented. I think a strike list with corteaz and purifiers could be very flexible. Maybe even a grand master to utilize grand strategy to awesome effect.

any baselist to be shared? I have tried to make one and i didnt get far

was thinking along:

Coteaz

1 to 2 units purifiers with rhino/ razorback

1 to 2 units Strikers
5 Deathcults
1 to 2 units henchmen with razorback

StormRaven

1 to 2 Dreadknights

1 Aegis Defense Line with quadgun

 sudojoe wrote:

This is pretty much what I've found after much experimenting in 6th. Heck, it's one of the first paragraphs of my giant GK tactical lol. The more I play around with different things, the more I see GK as the allied detatchment rather than as the main just because of their elite nature though I'll always keep trying as GK has been my first and "main" army though now I play with enough marines to sub in as any flavor practically, some eldar now, IG, daemons, Tau, necrons, and sisters lol.

I'm very interested in what you plan to do with the purifiers JY2. Through my testing, I definately don't do the rhino rush with them anymore execpt as mobile cover. It's just a 40 point marine as far as I can tell and my guys just run around behind it for LOS and the rhino just moves flat outs usually. Henchmen are almost necessary for such a list and it's pretty dependent on decent cover along with decent fire lanes which invariably means some sort of castle formation/hide in LOS. Between shadows in the warp, runes of warding, runic weapons, and other anti-psyker madness at least locally, I'm mostly not depending on any sort of assault though I always "threaten" to assault via positioning.

I only manage to run purifiers as an elite now a days and the core is coteaz henchemen with some strikes for warpquake, a storm raven for anti-tank/range/ flier, a bastion or ADL with quad/las cannon (more las cannons the mroe I play it seems), a DK or 2 depending on points and usually a psyfle just cause it counters a ton of stuff still.

That is somewhat similar to what I had in mind. Haven't really sat down yet to actually write a list, but it's most likely going to involve IG allies, Coteaz, purifiers as elites and henchmen troops.

 Red Corsair wrote:
Really I think all test games against forces of good should be run with an allied sw or eldar detachment. I am not going to the BAO because I live in Maine lol (would love too) but if I could advocate one thing to people attending:

Bring psycher defense!

If you can ally a farseer or a Rune priest I just do not understand why you wouldn't. They shut down certain armies like this bug build. They are also super cheap and buff your army in other match ups, I think it's a no brainer.

Let's see the psychic options for the armies that I currently play:

Tyranids - other than Shadows, I can't bring any psychic defense.

Necrons - can't bring eldar allies. The only choice is space wolves rune priests....which I don't like as an ally.

Grey Knights - eldar allies will screw me over. Space Wolves are ok, but probably the best solution will be the psyfleman dread.

Space Wolves - they're good.

Chaos Space Marines - no allies with psychic defense.

Chaos Daemons - no allies with psychic defense.


Honestly, I would love to bring in an eldar farseer on jetbike, but with the armies that I am running, I am very limited on psychic defense and allies with psychic defense.

 sudojoe wrote:
As a GK, I'd be hard pressed to take eldar allies as it kind of screws with my own powers as well so it's not ideal. Wolves in drop pods and meltas however have proven very strong for me. With proper pre-measuring, it's not too hard to use and you can get like 2 rune priests per HQ slot so it's pretty darn good. Just keep 24' away from things you want to cast and it's a good combination. Since I normally use them somewhat suicidally or with long fangs in cover as a dual castle formation it's usually not that big a deal.

GK's with SW allies.....sounds interesting, though I'm probably not going to go in that direction.

 Dozer Blades wrote:
My Crowe Purifier list is doing great in 6th edition. I think Strike based armies are terribad as proved by this batrep.

So what is your Purifier list, if you don't mind my asking?

 Red Corsair wrote:

 Dozer Blades wrote:
My Crowe Purifier list is doing great in 6th edition. I think Strike based armies are terribad as proved by this batrep.

I don't know about that, strike based armies are still a great counter to drop pod, demon and deathwing style lists. All of course before your factor in their own deep strike potential and awesome rate of fir with psybolt ammo. I do think though that strikes are complemented greatly by purifires, whos fearless and additional gear/CF make them amazing, I just think maybe a comfortable mix need be implemented. I think a strike list with corteaz and purifiers could be very flexible. Maybe even a grand master to utilize grand strategy to awesome effect.

I think both can work if designed properly. Towards the end of 5th, I was using a hybrid purifier/striker list with 20 (4x5) purifiers and 20 (2x10) strikers.

Strikes are a great unit to ADD to an army because they give you tools to deal with a range of stuff, but imo you don't want to completely build an army around them. Once you have 1-2 units of them + a unit of Interceptors you don't really need more, you can cover the board with Warp Quake at that point and you have plenty of other options which can hit harder (and you can ally with Guard or something to get bulk scoring/just take Coteaz Henchmen). While they are certainly much better than Tacticals you still have to think about them in the same way, more than 3 units at 2k is probably overdoing it and leaving you short on heavier hitters. This is what makes them very good allies imo, they are rock solid scoring and 2 units of them is pretty much all you need anyway.

@ jy2 - I use units you eschew such as a land raider Crusader and a Stormraven. Both of these are tough nuts to crack for Nidz and you won't engage my tank unless its on my terms. A couple of five Purfifer squads in rhinos with two psycannons are still an awesome unit. I play more of a defensive game rather than advancing my whole army forward. I have ways to kill T9 too.

Powerguy wrote:
Strikes are a great unit to ADD to an army because they give you tools to deal with a range of stuff, but imo you don't want to completely build an army around them. Once you have 1-2 units of them + a unit of Interceptors you don't really need more, you can cover the board with Warp Quake at that point and you have plenty of other options which can hit harder (and you can ally with Guard or something to get bulk scoring/just take Coteaz Henchmen). While they are certainly much better than Tacticals you still have to think about them in the same way, more than 3 units at 2k is probably overdoing it and leaving you short on heavier hitters. This is what makes them very good allies imo, they are rock solid scoring and 2 units of them is pretty much all you need anyway.

I'd have to disagree on the building around them part. In 6E, you want more bodies because they are your scoring units and the focus of your offense as well. S5-stormbolters are really good. It's definitely a viable way to build your army, just as viable as focusing your army on purifier psycannons, inquisitorial henchmen or paladins. I feel that the results of this game is more of an anomaly than the norm. Tacticals are nowhere near as killy as strikers, both with shooting and in assault, nor can they take down vehicles as reliably. Therefore, they need much more support units around them. Strikers on the other hand can deal with all but the most extreme units. They don't need as much support around them as tact squads do because they are flexible enough to handle a wider range of threats.

But that is only 1 aspect of list building. The other aspect, and probably the more important aspect is, what do you like to play? What is your preference of playstyle? Currently, I just like to run a lot of infantry. And I really like a lot of S5 dakka. Hence, until I design my new Purifier list, I'm going to be running a grey knight horde for the time being.

 Dozer Blades wrote:
@ jy2 - I use units you eschew such as a land raider Crusader and a Stormraven. Both of these are tough nuts to crack for Nidz and you won't engage my tank unless its on my terms. A couple of five Purfifer squads in rhinos with two psycannons are still an awesome unit. I play more of a defensive game rather than advancing my whole army forward. I have ways to kill T9 too.

That is fine. If it is a playstyle you enjoy and that has been working for you, then you should keep on doing it. For me, I used to run very elite armies. I'm talking about only 25 purifiers at 2K or 15 paladins. I'm talking about 3x5 grey knights in 3 land raiders from my old daemonhunter days. It's a playstyle that I've been running for perhaps 3+ years and frankly, I need to take a break from it. I've now gone over to the extreme end by running a grey knight horde build and I must say that I quite enjoy it. It isn't perfect, as this game demonstrated, however I feel that it is still a very competitive and somewhat balanced list.

Sounds good to me. Thanks for the insite. I enjoy learning about the strategic choices good players make.