GW releases 40k FAQs for Feb. Rulebook errata 1.3

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**Surtur**

Kroothawk wrote:
Arrathon wrote:
Did i read it correct that Black templars can take the Strom talon as well as the raven?

Q: Land Speeder Storms, Stormraven Gunships and Stormtalon
Gunships are all listed as Space Marine vehicles in the Reference
section. Does this mean that every Space Marine Chapter now has
access to these vehicles as well (i.e . Space Wolves, Blood Angels,
Grey Knights etc.)? (p411)
A: No – you may usually only select units and vehicles that are
available in the army list section of your codex. The two
exceptions are the Stormtalon and Stormraven Gunships,
which are available to armies chosen from Codex: Space
Marines and Codex: Black Templars. The rules for using these
Flyers can be found in the Death From the Skies compendium

According to RAW, Blood Angels and Grey Knights just lost their Storm Raven

I loled

**Mr Morden**

Shadelkan wrote:
And SW still don't have a flyer or anything to deal with flyers. Fun.

Well they get more than Tryanids who can't even use the ADL.

But yeah its all pretty rubbish:

Space Marine and Ork players have to but a expensive direct only book to get a couple of new units as the FAQ invalidate the previous publications.

Everyone else gets the shaft

anyone happy ?

**d3m01iti0n**

Savageconvoy wrote:
And I don't know why, but for some reason the way they're putting in entries that mention BT looks like it might get sucked into C:SM.

Funny, I didnt see anything remotely close to suggesting that.

**ceorron**

Mr Morden wrote:

Everyone else gets the shaft

anyone happy ?

Yea and no, in that order. From every ork and space marine player on the forum.

**Rob451**

ceorron wrote:
Mr Morden wrote:

Everyone else gets the shaft

anyone happy ?

Yea and no, in that order. From every ork and space marine player on the forum.

*raises hand*

I'm happy. Stormtalons became Flyer(Hover) which I'm very happy about and getting access to StormRavens is great news. I'm also happy that I will soon have the rules for the Dakka Jet and Bommerz because nobody around here has the White Dwarf with the rules and keeps getting them wrong.

**Crazyterran**

Judging from the FAQs, i'm guessing Stormtalons get Strafing Run and lose Hover Strike. (And just get normal hover mode)

Which makes them better.

**Breotan**

Kroothawk wrote:
Arrathon wrote:
Q: Land Speeder Storms, Stormraven Gunships and Stormtalon
Gunships are all listed as Space Marine vehicles in the Reference
section. Does this mean that every Space Marine Chapter now has
access to these vehicles as well (i.e . Space Wolves, Blood Angels,
Grey Knights etc.)? (p411)
A: No – you may usually only select units and vehicles that are
available in the army list section of your codex. The two
exceptions are the Stormtalon and Stormraven Gunships,
which are available to armies chosen from Codex: Space
Marines and Codex: Black Templars. The rules for using these
Flyers can be found in the Death From the Skies compendium
According to RAW, Blood Angels and Grey Knights just lost their Storm Raven

What RAW are you reading? Nothing in that paragraph FAQs the BA/GK codexes.

**Drakmord**

Aw man, why are they taking out the Deep Strike rules on flyers? I just recently got some Night Scythes and was looking forward to plopping them down with Phased Reinforcements.

**timetowaste85**

Breotan wrote:
Kroothawk wrote:
Arrathon wrote:
Q: Land Speeder Storms, Stormraven Gunships and Stormtalon
Gunships are all listed as Space Marine vehicles in the Reference
section. Does this mean that every Space Marine Chapter now has
access to these vehicles as well (i.e . Space Wolves, Blood Angels,
Grey Knights etc.)? (p411)
A: No – you may usually only select units and vehicles that are
available in the army list section of your codex. The two
exceptions are the Stormtalon and Stormraven Gunships,
which are available to armies chosen from Codex: Space
Marines and Codex: Black Templars. The rules for using these
Flyers can be found in the Death From the Skies compendium
According to RAW, Blood Angels and Grey Knights just lost their Storm Raven
What RAW are you reading? Nothing in that paragraph FAQs the BA/GK codexes.

The two
exceptions are the Stormtalon and Stormraven Gunships,
which are available to armies chosen from Codex: Space
Marines and Codex: Black Templars

That's the part he's joking about. It'll be a running joke for a while, as GW poorly wrote this, as RAW only those two codexes can use the two models, but RAO (Rules as obvious) means those two in additions. Kroothawk is having fun with this. But I can see actual people argue that GK and BA are no longer able to take them-those people should be avoided in public places.

**Mr Morden**

Except it does not say that?

It says if they are not in already your Codex - which for example the GK Stormraven is - you can't have them except in C:Sm and C:BT

Its pretty clear??.

**Rob451**

Mr Morden wrote:
Except it does not say that?

It says if they are not in already your Codex - which for example the GK Stormraven is - you can't have them except in C:Sm and C:BT

Its pretty clear??.

Unfortunately it is a valid interpretation of what's written according to the English Language but it's a case of there being two equally valid ways to read that paragraph because GW doesn't get lawyers to proof read their stuff for them.

However because the Blood Angel and Grey Knight FAQs don't remove the unit entries from the books they can still be taken because an entry in a different armies FAQ doesn't override the content of their codex.

**Savageconvoy**

Mr Morden wrote:
Except it does not say that?

It says if they are not in already your Codex - which for example the GK Stormraven is - you can't have them except in C:Sm and C:BT

Its pretty clear??.

But the way it's written can appear differently.

No – you may usually only select units and vehicles that are
available in the army list section of your codex.

This is where I find out what I can field

The two exceptions are the Stormtalon and Stormraven Gunships,
which are available to armies chosen from Codex: Space
Marines and Codex: Black Templars.

And this is worded to possibly imply that the exception is that the Storm talon and Stormraven are the exceptions to what I can field, as they are available only to Codex: Space Marines and Codex: Black Templar.

**timetowaste85**

Exactly. We all know what it's supposed to mean, but GW fails at writing.

**TheRedDevil**

Happygrunt wrote:

Also, why did almost every flyer in the game lose deepstrike?

To limit flyer angle of approach I'm assuming. Both deepstrike and outflank provide you tremedous freedom to maximize the number of turns your fliers can attack. It makes it much harder to angle fors units already on your half the board, especially if you end up with length wise board edges.

**Crimson**

Rob451 wrote:

Unfortunately it is a valid interpretation of what's written according to the English Language but it's a case of there being two equally valid ways to read that paragraph because GW doesn't get lawyers to proof read their stuff for them.

Yes, and if there is a sensible interpretation and an inane interpretation, half of Dakka feels obligated to stick with the inane one and start countless threads about it on YMDC, even though we all understand perfectly well what they actually meant.

**Savageconvoy**

Crimson wrote:
Yes, and if there is a sensible interpretation and an inane interpretation, half of Dakka feels obligated to stick with the inane one and start countless threads about it on YMDC, even though we all understand perfectly well what they actually meant.

YMDC threads argue the validity of the rules from a RAW perspective only. I don't think many of the players would use the rules in a terrible way, such as denying vehicles invul saves. And again, nobody here is really saying that they are going to stop their GK and BA opponents from using the Storm talon and Stormraven. They just point out that the FAQ is written in a stupid manner.

**BolingbrokeIV**

There is no failed English at all. It says you can usually only pick units listed in the codex, the exceptions being Stormravens/talons in SM and BT.

The person who only reads the part of the paragraph which reads: '...which are available to armies chosen from Codex: Space Marines and Codex: Black Templars' and ignores everything else is the one who is failing at basic English.

Savageconvoy wrote:
The two exceptions are the Stormtalon and Stormraven Gunships,
which are available to armies chosen from Codex: Space
Marines and Codex: Black Templars.
And this is worded to possibly imply that the exception is that the Storm talon and Stormraven are the exceptions to what I can field, as they are available only to Codex: Space Marines and Codex: Black Templar.

Only if you ignore the fact that both parts of that sentence do actually have something to do with each other and it IS refering to Stormravens/talons in the context of the SM and BT codexes.

**Breotan**

timetowaste85 wrote:
Exactly. We all know what it's supposed to mean, but GW fails at writing.

More like people failing at English comprehension.

**Savageconvoy**

That's how it's intended to be read. The problem is that is states that you can choose units in your army listing, with the exception of the storm talon and Stormraven (i.e. they are in your army list, but you can't take them) which are available to C;SM and C:BT.

It can be read either way. I know you want to read it one way, and nobody is arguing that that isn't the proper way it should be interpreted. It's just another entry in the list of confusing FAQ issues.

**Crimson**

Savageconvoy wrote:

I know you want to read it one way, and nobody is arguing that that isn't the proper way it should be interpreted.

Then job fething done! It doesn't need to be any clearer.

**BolingbrokeIV**

Would you rather they worded it like this for people who have no comprehension skills? Complete with caps and different coloured type for the instant messaging generation.

No – you may usually only select units and vehicles that are available in the army list section of your codex. THAT FULL STOP DENOTES I HAVE NOW ENDED THAT SENTENCE AND AM STARTING A NEW ONE. The two exceptions are the Stormtalon and Stormraven Gunships, (THAT COMMA MEANS I AM NOW GOING TO GIVE MORE MEANING, IN THIS CASE CONTEXT, TO WHAT I JUST WROTE) which are available to armies chosen from Codex: Space
Marines and Codex: Black Templars. I HOPE THAT CLEARS THINGS UP.

**Kroothawk**

Breotan wrote:
timetowaste85 wrote:
Exactly. We all know what it's supposed to mean, but GW fails at writing.

More like people failing at English comprehension.

More like people failing at interpreting emoticons

**RatBot**

No – you may usually only select units and vehicles that are
available in the army list section of your codex. The two
exceptions are the Stormtalon and Stormraven Gunships,
which are also available to armies chosen from Codex: Space
Marines and Codex: Black Templars. The rules for using these
Flyers can be found in the Death From the Skies compendium

Fixed, job's a good 'un.

**insaniak**

Glorioski wrote:
Would you rather they worded it like this for people who have no comprehension skills? Complete with caps and different coloured type for the instant messaging generation.

No – you may usually only select units and vehicles that are available in the army list section of your codex. THAT FULL STOP DENOTES I HAVE NOW ENDED THAT SENTENCE AND AM STARTING A NEW ONE. The two exceptions are the Stormtalon and Stormraven Gunships, (THAT COMMA MEANS I AM NOW GOING TO GIVE MORE MEANING, IN THIS CASE CONTEXT, TO WHAT I JUST WROTE) which are available to armies chosen from Codex: Space
Marines and Codex: Black Templars. I HOPE THAT CLEARS THINGS UP.

Just leaving out the 'only' would serve the same function without the hyperbole.

**BolingbrokeIV**

Or you could leave it as it is.

**Byte**

Drakmord wrote:
Aw man, why are they taking out the Deep Strike rules on flyers? I just recently got some Night Scythes and was looking forward to plopping them down with Phased Reinforcements.

I wonder why FMCs didn't loose deep strike. Unless I'm missing something.

**Living Still**

I really wish that game designers had to take a TECHNICAL writing class of some kind AND that it was legitimately reviewed by players (peer reviewed). It would make all the difference. Christ almighty.

**Leth**

Wouldn't stop people, just give them something else to bitch about.

**Savageconvoy**

Leth wrote:
Wouldn't stop people, just give them something else to bitch about.

That's assuming the complaint of a poorly worded FAQ isn't valid and we are complaining just to complain. FAQ issues are a recurring theme and just warrants the complaint.

It's not like people are looking for things to rage over. I was hoping that the FAQs were going to include useful updates. Instead I saw ads and the standard poorly worded FAQ. If I didn't see those issues, are you saying I'd just go looking for something to be upset about?

**SetantaSilvermane**

Wow, I have zero reason to buy this book because I play Space Wolves, and still don't get the flyers.