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Made in us
Big Fat Gospel of Menoth





The other side of the internet

 Kroothawk wrote:
 Arrathon wrote:
Did i read it correct that Black templars can take the Strom talon as well as the raven?

Q: Land Speeder Storms, Stormraven Gunships and Stormtalon
Gunships are all listed as Space Marine vehicles in the Reference
section. Does this mean that every Space Marine Chapter now has
access to these vehicles as well (i.e . Space Wolves, Blood Angels,
Grey Knights etc.)? (p411)
A: No – you may usually only select units and vehicles that are
available in the army list section of your codex. The two
exceptions are the Stormtalon and Stormraven Gunships,
which are available to armies chosen from Codex: Space
Marines and Codex: Black Templars. The rules for using these
Flyers can be found in the Death From the Skies compendium

According to RAW, Blood Angels and Grey Knights just lost their Storm Raven


I loled

(╯°□°)╯︵ ┻━┻

RAGE

Be sure to use logic! Avoid fallacies whenever possible.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_fallacies 
   
Made in gb
Mighty Vampire Count






UK

 Shadelkan wrote:
And SW still don't have a flyer or anything to deal with flyers. Fun.


Well they get more than Tryanids who can't even use the ADL.

But yeah its all pretty rubbish:

Space Marine and Ork players have to but a expensive direct only book to get a couple of new units as the FAQ invalidate the previous publications.

Everyone else gets the shaft

anyone happy ?

I AM A MARINE PLAYER

"Unimaginably ancient xenos artefact somewhere on the planet, hive fleet poised above our heads, hidden 'stealer broods making an early start....and now a bloody Chaos cult crawling out of the woodwork just in case we were bored. Welcome to my world, Ciaphas."
Inquisitor Amberley Vail, Ordo Xenos

"I will admit that some Primachs like Russ or Horus could have a chance against an unarmed 12 year old novice but, a full Battle Sister??!! One to one? In close combat? Perhaps three Primarchs fighting together... but just one Primarch?" da001

www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/528517.page

A Bloody Road - my Warhammer Fantasy Fiction 
   
Made in us
Crushing Black Templar Crusader Pilot





New Hampster, USA

 Savageconvoy wrote:
And I don't know why, but for some reason the way they're putting in entries that mention BT looks like it might get sucked into C:SM.


Funny, I didnt see anything remotely close to suggesting that.

BLACK TEMPLARS - 2000 0RkZ - 2000 NIDZ - WIP STEEL LEGION - WIP
 
   
Made in gb
Growlin' Guntrukk Driver with Killacannon





UK

 Mr Morden wrote:

Everyone else gets the shaft

anyone happy ?


Yea and no, in that order. From every ork and space marine player on the forum.

   
Made in gb
Hardened Veteran Guardsman




Shrewsbury

 ceorron wrote:
 Mr Morden wrote:

Everyone else gets the shaft

anyone happy ?


Yea and no, in that order. From every ork and space marine player on the forum.


*raises hand*

I'm happy. Stormtalons became Flyer(Hover) which I'm very happy about and getting access to StormRavens is great news. I'm also happy that I will soon have the rules for the Dakka Jet and Bommerz because nobody around here has the White Dwarf with the rules and keeps getting them wrong.

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Made in ca
Resolute Ultramarine Honor Guard






Vancouver, BC

Judging from the FAQs, i'm guessing Stormtalons get Strafing Run and lose Hover Strike. (And just get normal hover mode)

Which makes them better.

 warboss wrote:
Is there a permanent stickied thread for Chaos players to complain every time someone/anyone gets models or rules besides them? If not, there should be.
 
   
Made in us
Most Glorious Grey Seer





Everett, WA

 Kroothawk wrote:
 Arrathon wrote:
Q: Land Speeder Storms, Stormraven Gunships and Stormtalon
Gunships are all listed as Space Marine vehicles in the Reference
section. Does this mean that every Space Marine Chapter now has
access to these vehicles as well (i.e . Space Wolves, Blood Angels,
Grey Knights etc.)? (p411)
A: No – you may usually only select units and vehicles that are
available in the army list section of your codex. The two
exceptions are the Stormtalon and Stormraven Gunships,
which are available to armies chosen from Codex: Space
Marines and Codex: Black Templars. The rules for using these
Flyers can be found in the Death From the Skies compendium
According to RAW, Blood Angels and Grey Knights just lost their Storm Raven
What RAW are you reading? Nothing in that paragraph FAQs the BA/GK codexes.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2013/02/16 21:08:53


 
   
Made in us
Freaky Flayed One




Aw man, why are they taking out the Deep Strike rules on flyers? I just recently got some Night Scythes and was looking forward to plopping them down with Phased Reinforcements.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2013/02/16 21:15:29


 
   
Made in us
Androgynous Daemon Prince of Slaanesh





Norwalk, Connecticut

 Breotan wrote:
 Kroothawk wrote:
 Arrathon wrote:
Q: Land Speeder Storms, Stormraven Gunships and Stormtalon
Gunships are all listed as Space Marine vehicles in the Reference
section. Does this mean that every Space Marine Chapter now has
access to these vehicles as well (i.e . Space Wolves, Blood Angels,
Grey Knights etc.)? (p411)
A: No – you may usually only select units and vehicles that are
available in the army list section of your codex. The two
exceptions are the Stormtalon and Stormraven Gunships,
which are available to armies chosen from Codex: Space
Marines and Codex: Black Templars. The rules for using these
Flyers can be found in the Death From the Skies compendium
According to RAW, Blood Angels and Grey Knights just lost their Storm Raven
What RAW are you reading? Nothing in that paragraph FAQs the BA/GK codexes.


The two
exceptions are the Stormtalon and Stormraven Gunships,
which are available to armies chosen from Codex: Space
Marines and Codex: Black Templars

That's the part he's joking about. It'll be a running joke for a while, as GW poorly wrote this, as RAW only those two codexes can use the two models, but RAO (Rules as obvious) means those two in additions. Kroothawk is having fun with this. But I can see actual people argue that GK and BA are no longer able to take them-those people should be avoided in public places.

Reality is a nice place to visit, but I'd hate to live there.

Manchu wrote:I'm a Catholic. We eat our God.


Due to work, I can usually only ship any sales or trades out on Saturday morning. Please trade/purchase with this in mind.  
   
Made in gb
Mighty Vampire Count






UK

Except it does not say that?

It says if they are not in already your Codex - which for example the GK Stormraven is - you can't have them except in C:Sm and C:BT

Its pretty clear??.

I AM A MARINE PLAYER

"Unimaginably ancient xenos artefact somewhere on the planet, hive fleet poised above our heads, hidden 'stealer broods making an early start....and now a bloody Chaos cult crawling out of the woodwork just in case we were bored. Welcome to my world, Ciaphas."
Inquisitor Amberley Vail, Ordo Xenos

"I will admit that some Primachs like Russ or Horus could have a chance against an unarmed 12 year old novice but, a full Battle Sister??!! One to one? In close combat? Perhaps three Primarchs fighting together... but just one Primarch?" da001

www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/528517.page

A Bloody Road - my Warhammer Fantasy Fiction 
   
Made in gb
Hardened Veteran Guardsman




Shrewsbury

 Mr Morden wrote:
Except it does not say that?

It says if they are not in already your Codex - which for example the GK Stormraven is - you can't have them except in C:Sm and C:BT

Its pretty clear??.


Unfortunately it is a valid interpretation of what's written according to the English Language but it's a case of there being two equally valid ways to read that paragraph because GW doesn't get lawyers to proof read their stuff for them.

However because the Blood Angel and Grey Knight FAQs don't remove the unit entries from the books they can still be taken because an entry in a different armies FAQ doesn't override the content of their codex.

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Made in us
Fireknife Shas'el






 Mr Morden wrote:
Except it does not say that?

It says if they are not in already your Codex - which for example the GK Stormraven is - you can't have them except in C:Sm and C:BT

Its pretty clear??.


But the way it's written can appear differently.

No – you may usually only select units and vehicles that are
available in the army list section of your codex.
This is where I find out what I can field

The two exceptions are the Stormtalon and Stormraven Gunships,
which are available to armies chosen from Codex: Space
Marines and Codex: Black Templars.
And this is worded to possibly imply that the exception is that the Storm talon and Stormraven are the exceptions to what I can field, as they are available only to Codex: Space Marines and Codex: Black Templar.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2013/02/16 21:43:29


I'm expecting an Imperial Knights supplement dedicated to GW's loyalist apologetics. Codex: White Knights "In the grim dark future, everything is fine."

"The argument is that we have to do this or we will, bit by bit,
lose everything that we hold dear, everything that keeps the business going. Our crops will wither, our children will die piteous
deaths and the sun will be swept from the sky."
-Tom Kirby 
   
Made in us
Androgynous Daemon Prince of Slaanesh





Norwalk, Connecticut

Exactly. We all know what it's supposed to mean, but GW fails at writing.

Reality is a nice place to visit, but I'd hate to live there.

Manchu wrote:I'm a Catholic. We eat our God.


Due to work, I can usually only ship any sales or trades out on Saturday morning. Please trade/purchase with this in mind.  
   
Made in us
Lurking Gaunt




 Happygrunt wrote:

Also, why did almost every flyer in the game lose deepstrike?


To limit flyer angle of approach I'm assuming. Both deepstrike and outflank provide you tremedous freedom to maximize the number of turns your fliers can attack. It makes it much harder to angle fors units already on your half the board, especially if you end up with length wise board edges.
   
Made in fi
Courageous Space Marine Captain






Rob451 wrote:

Unfortunately it is a valid interpretation of what's written according to the English Language but it's a case of there being two equally valid ways to read that paragraph because GW doesn't get lawyers to proof read their stuff for them.


Yes, and if there is a sensible interpretation and an inane interpretation, half of Dakka feels obligated to stick with the inane one and start countless threads about it on YMDC, even though we all understand perfectly well what they actually meant.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2013/02/16 21:57:15


   
Made in us
Fireknife Shas'el






 Crimson wrote:
Yes, and if there is a sensible interpretation and an inane interpretation, half of Dakka feels obligated to stick with the inane one and start countless threads about it on YMDC, even though we all understand perfectly well what they actually meant.
YMDC threads argue the validity of the rules from a RAW perspective only. I don't think many of the players would use the rules in a terrible way, such as denying vehicles invul saves. And again, nobody here is really saying that they are going to stop their GK and BA opponents from using the Storm talon and Stormraven. They just point out that the FAQ is written in a stupid manner.

I'm expecting an Imperial Knights supplement dedicated to GW's loyalist apologetics. Codex: White Knights "In the grim dark future, everything is fine."

"The argument is that we have to do this or we will, bit by bit,
lose everything that we hold dear, everything that keeps the business going. Our crops will wither, our children will die piteous
deaths and the sun will be swept from the sky."
-Tom Kirby 
   
Made in gb
Powerful Pegasus Knight





There is no failed English at all. It says you can usually only pick units listed in the codex, the exceptions being Stormravens/talons in SM and BT.

The person who only reads the part of the paragraph which reads: '...which are available to armies chosen from Codex: Space Marines and Codex: Black Templars' and ignores everything else is the one who is failing at basic English.

 Savageconvoy wrote:
The two exceptions are the Stormtalon and Stormraven Gunships,
which are available to armies chosen from Codex: Space
Marines and Codex: Black Templars.
And this is worded to possibly imply that the exception is that the Storm talon and Stormraven are the exceptions to what I can field, as they are available only to Codex: Space Marines and Codex: Black Templar.


Only if you ignore the fact that both parts of that sentence do actually have something to do with each other and it IS refering to Stormravens/talons in the context of the SM and BT codexes.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2013/02/16 22:11:30


 
   
Made in us
Most Glorious Grey Seer





Everett, WA

 timetowaste85 wrote:
Exactly. We all know what it's supposed to mean, but GW fails at writing.
More like people failing at English comprehension.

 
   
Made in us
Fireknife Shas'el






That's how it's intended to be read. The problem is that is states that you can choose units in your army listing, with the exception of the storm talon and Stormraven (i.e. they are in your army list, but you can't take them) which are available to C;SM and C:BT.

It can be read either way. I know you want to read it one way, and nobody is arguing that that isn't the proper way it should be interpreted. It's just another entry in the list of confusing FAQ issues.

I'm expecting an Imperial Knights supplement dedicated to GW's loyalist apologetics. Codex: White Knights "In the grim dark future, everything is fine."

"The argument is that we have to do this or we will, bit by bit,
lose everything that we hold dear, everything that keeps the business going. Our crops will wither, our children will die piteous
deaths and the sun will be swept from the sky."
-Tom Kirby 
   
Made in fi
Courageous Space Marine Captain






 Savageconvoy wrote:

I know you want to read it one way, and nobody is arguing that that isn't the proper way it should be interpreted.


Then job fething done! It doesn't need to be any clearer.

   
Made in gb
Powerful Pegasus Knight





Would you rather they worded it like this for people who have no comprehension skills? Complete with caps and different coloured type for the instant messaging generation.

No – you may usually only select units and vehicles that are available in the army list section of your codex. THAT FULL STOP DENOTES I HAVE NOW ENDED THAT SENTENCE AND AM STARTING A NEW ONE. The two exceptions are the Stormtalon and Stormraven Gunships, (THAT COMMA MEANS I AM NOW GOING TO GIVE MORE MEANING, IN THIS CASE CONTEXT, TO WHAT I JUST WROTE) which are available to armies chosen from Codex: Space
Marines and Codex: Black Templars. I HOPE THAT CLEARS THINGS UP.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2013/02/16 22:27:14


 
   
Made in de
Decrepit Dakkanaut







 Breotan wrote:
 timetowaste85 wrote:
Exactly. We all know what it's supposed to mean, but GW fails at writing.

More like people failing at English comprehension.

More like people failing at interpreting emoticons

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Made in us
Wraith






No – you may usually only select units and vehicles that are
available in the army list section of your codex. The two
exceptions are the Stormtalon and Stormraven Gunships,
which are also available to armies chosen from Codex: Space
Marines and Codex: Black Templars. The rules for using these
Flyers can be found in the Death From the Skies compendium



Fixed, job's a good 'un.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2013/02/16 22:31:13


 
   
Made in au
[MOD]
Making Stuff






Under the couch

 Glorioski wrote:
Would you rather they worded it like this for people who have no comprehension skills? Complete with caps and different coloured type for the instant messaging generation.

No – you may usually only select units and vehicles that are available in the army list section of your codex. THAT FULL STOP DENOTES I HAVE NOW ENDED THAT SENTENCE AND AM STARTING A NEW ONE. The two exceptions are the Stormtalon and Stormraven Gunships, (THAT COMMA MEANS I AM NOW GOING TO GIVE MORE MEANING, IN THIS CASE CONTEXT, TO WHAT I JUST WROTE) which are available to armies chosen from Codex: Space
Marines and Codex: Black Templars. I HOPE THAT CLEARS THINGS UP.

Just leaving out the 'only' would serve the same function without the hyperbole.

 
   
Made in gb
Powerful Pegasus Knight





Or you could leave it as it is.
   
Made in us
Decrepit Dakkanaut





The Golden Throne

Drakmord wrote:
Aw man, why are they taking out the Deep Strike rules on flyers? I just recently got some Night Scythes and was looking forward to plopping them down with Phased Reinforcements.


I wonder why FMCs didn't loose deep strike. Unless I'm missing something.
   
Made in us
Stalwart Veteran Guard Sergeant




The Biggest Little City

I really wish that game designers had to take a TECHNICAL writing class of some kind AND that it was legitimately reviewed by players (peer reviewed). It would make all the difference. Christ almighty.

May the WAAC and pretzels be with you.

~Casey 
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut




Indiana

Wouldn't stop people, just give them something else to bitch about.

People who stopped buying GW but wont stop bitching about it are the vegans of warhammer

My Deathwatch army project thread  
   
Made in us
Fireknife Shas'el






 Leth wrote:
Wouldn't stop people, just give them something else to bitch about.

That's assuming the complaint of a poorly worded FAQ isn't valid and we are complaining just to complain. FAQ issues are a recurring theme and just warrants the complaint.

It's not like people are looking for things to rage over. I was hoping that the FAQs were going to include useful updates. Instead I saw ads and the standard poorly worded FAQ. If I didn't see those issues, are you saying I'd just go looking for something to be upset about?

I'm expecting an Imperial Knights supplement dedicated to GW's loyalist apologetics. Codex: White Knights "In the grim dark future, everything is fine."

"The argument is that we have to do this or we will, bit by bit,
lose everything that we hold dear, everything that keeps the business going. Our crops will wither, our children will die piteous
deaths and the sun will be swept from the sky."
-Tom Kirby 
   
Made in us
Ferocious Blood Claw



Houston, TX

Wow, I have zero reason to buy this book because I play Space Wolves, and still don't get the flyers.
   
 
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