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 Deunstephe wrote:


Superglue and GS on plastic models is more of a pain, since you have to drill your holes, mix your GS, and then put the superglue in it. Plastic glue, just put a dab on and press the parts together.

Drill holes? What holes?

I accept that I will likely not have the entire collection of 40k stuff I have now. Plans change, lifestyles change, and soon you find you need more time/space/money. Baking an escape clause into your hobbies is never a terrible idea, even if for a marginal return.

But okay, here's an even better case argument summed up into two words: Edition Drop.

With an xacto blade and some patience, I pop my power swords off of my IG sergeants and the fists off of my SM tac squad sergeants, and then reconfigure them, as opposed to buying new models.

You could point out that I use magnets instead. That's not a bad idea, but three years ago if you would have told me if tac squad powerfists were going to be a bad idea, I'd probably have scoffed.

I'm seriously considering "finalizing" some of the magnetized arms on my marines with a teeny tiny drop of superglue. That way they don't shift or come loose in the transport or when I pick them up, but they'll be really easy to separate in the future for edition drop.

Oh, another reason I prefer superglue: I've really started to like painting my models off of their bases and combining the two finished parts at the end. So I superglue the foot or what have you to a nail.

Plus, it really isn't for serious modelers. Just how are you going to scratchbuild with greenstuff using plastic glue? You're not. Acetone will both wreck the GS sculpt AND not glue the GS down. How are you working with plasticard? You're not, because the acetone is going to melt and warp the joints. How are you going to work with metal? You're not, because acetone doesn't do anything to bond metal. How are you going to work with resin? You're not, because acetone goes through resin like kleenex at a snot party.

There is exactly one use for plastic glue - for putting together plastic models more or less exactly according to the instructions. Even then, I hope you don't accidentally drip on something, or you've wrecked your model, and I really hope that you like that unit in exactly that configuration with exactly those weapons, because there's no way you're going to be able to go back in and change anything. Hope you don't make any mistakes either, because those are permanent.

If you're having problems keeping things stuck together with superglue, it's very likely you're using the superglue wrong (putting down multiple applications without cleaning the surface first, for example), or you just need to stop dropping your minis on the floor and stepping on them.

 daedalus wrote:
I accept that I will likely not have the entire collection of 40k stuff I have now. Plans change, lifestyles change, and soon you find you need more time/space/money. Baking an escape clause into your hobbies is never a terrible idea, even if for a marginal return.

But okay, here's an even better case argument summed up into two words: Edition Drop.

With an xacto blade and some patience, I pop my power swords off of my IG sergeants and the fists off of my SM tac squad sergeants, and then reconfigure them, as opposed to buying new models.

You could point out that I use magnets instead. That's not a bad idea, but three years ago if you would have told me if tac squad powerfists were going to be a bad idea, I'd probably have scoffed.

If you want to change weapons in the future, then yes, I recommend you use superglue. Personally I don't like pulling apart my painted minis anyway because it ruins the paintjob so I'm more inclined to either magnetise or just buy new models if the old ones become obsolete. The guys with the actual special weapons I often magnetise now, and I have been known to plastic-glue a model together all except for the weapon arm which I sometimes superglue (if not magnet).

For the most part, though, I wouldn't want to destroy my paintjob by "popping off" weapons like that anyway, I'd sooner just build a new dude with the new weapon option and leave the old dude intact. But hey, that's just me, I'm not saying my way is right or wrong, I just don't get all the hate for plastic glue (other than buying 2nd hand junk it's frustrating to the buyer, but I personally wouldn't advise people to use what, IMO, is inferior just for the sake of perhaps in the future selling it for a few bucks more). A lot of my Space Wolves are fitted with painstakingly converted weapons anyway, so I'm not going to be popping them off any time soon regardless of how GW changes the rules and in fact a lot of the joins on my Space Wolves weapons are such that I wouldn't trust them to anything less than a good plastic glue (or maybe an epoxy, but I'm too lazy to epoxy plastics).

There's a few conversions I've done that would have been significantly harder without the benefit of plastic glue to melt away misalignments or poorly fitted joins. I scratch built some Goblin Chariots which were a pain in the arse to line up and through the glory of plastic glue I could get them within a couple of millimetres and then just use plastic glue and a bit of working to make them line up perfect and also join strongly.




Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Ailaros wrote:
Plus, it really isn't for serious modelers. Just how are you going to scratchbuild with greenstuff using plastic glue? You're not. Acetone will both wreck the GS sculpt AND not glue the GS down. How are you working with plasticard? You're not, because the acetone is going to melt and warp the joints. How are you going to work with metal? You're not, because acetone doesn't do anything to bond metal. How are you going to work with resin? You're not, because acetone goes through resin like kleenex at a snot party.

There is exactly one use for plastic glue - for putting together plastic models more or less exactly according to the instructions. Even then, I hope you don't accidentally drip on something, or you've wrecked your model, and I really hope that you like that unit in exactly that configuration with exactly those weapons, because there's no way you're going to be able to go back in and change anything. Hope you don't make any mistakes either, because those are permanent.

If you're having problems keeping things stuck together with superglue, it's very likely you're using the superglue wrong (putting down multiple applications without cleaning the surface first, for example), or you just need to stop dropping your minis on the floor and stepping on them.

Did plastic glue run over your dog and sleep with your wife or something? I really don't get the hatred for it. It's really quite simple.

Plastic glue.
Glues plastic and only plastic together by melting the surfaces slightly.
Tough.
Hard to remove.
Joins are integral with the plastic.
Joins don't need to line up 100% and some misalignment can be corrected because of the weld-like nature.
Don't be an idiot and spill it everywhere and get it on things you don't want melted (seriously, how is this even an issue? Do you glue by throwing it at the model?)

Superglue.
Glues most anything by bonding surfaces (including fingers to models, which can be a factor in certain circumstances).
Likes to have joins that line up well.
Is a poor filler.
Not quite so tough and tends to be brittle (though if you have a join that lines up well, it can be pretty tough).
Easier to remove.

Pick which one you want for the situation you have and the desired outcome. Just because you want to use plastic glue doesn't mean you can't also use super glue and vice versa.

Agreed, but I think what we are saying is that some of us just don't like using plastic glue, as we have no use for it. I don't need to reassemble my models, but super glue is easier and cleaner for me to use. I don't have to mess around with different glues when working with metal or resin. It's just easier and there is no downside that affects me.

 Ailaros wrote:
... [snippedangrystuff] How are you working with plasticard? You're not, because the acetone is going to melt and warp the joints. [snippedangrystuff]

If you're using enough glue to warp the joints then you're using waaaaay too much glue. I was taught to use the right tool for the job. Poly cement is my chosen tool for working in plastic and have had no problems. superglue has its place, but I prefer the control available in poly cement. Sure you can mess up your model by dripping poly cement on it, but you can do just as much irreversible damage to surfaces and detail by losing control of the superglue, as the OP has presented.

If you want to switch out weapons the you're going to be doing damage to the model in various ways anyway, so you may as well just snip off the offending weapon and replace directly as try to prize off a whole limb.

Also with a sharp knife and a decent saw, nothing is ever permanant

 nectarprime wrote:
Agreed, but I think what we are saying is that some of us just don't like using plastic glue, as we have no use for it. I don't need to reassemble my models, but super glue is easier and cleaner for me to use. I don't have to mess around with different glues when working with metal or resin. It's just easier and there is no downside that affects me.

Yeah, personally I use plastic glue because I do find it easier I find I don't need to do quite so much prep, I find it's cleaner, I find it easier to pose models and I find it requires less post work (for models which require post work). I've used plenty of both over the years and I personally just find plastic glue is easier to use on plastics. For the times I want superglue, it's sitting right there on my desk next to the plastic glue and the epoxy glue. The only one I actually find takes significantly more work is the epoxy since you need to mix it.

Just skimmed through. but if i recall you can weaken superglue and chip it off with like a toothpick if you soak it in simple green / la awesome and in general alot of different chemicals we use for striping.

 Ailaros wrote:
Plus, it really isn't for serious modelers. Just how are you going to scratchbuild with greenstuff using plastic glue? You're not. Acetone will both wreck the GS sculpt AND not glue the GS down. How are you working with plasticard? You're not, because the acetone is going to melt and warp the joints. How are you going to work with metal? You're not, because acetone doesn't do anything to bond metal. How are you going to work with resin? You're not, because acetone goes through resin like kleenex at a snot party.

There is exactly one use for plastic glue - for putting together plastic models more or less exactly according to the instructions. Even then, I hope you don't accidentally drip on something, or you've wrecked your model, and I really hope that you like that unit in exactly that configuration with exactly those weapons, because there's no way you're going to be able to go back in and change anything. Hope you don't make any mistakes either, because those are permanent.

Plasticard is made of styrene, which is plastic, therefore plastic glues/cements are best for it instead of superglue. As others have said, if your glue is warping the joints then you're using way too much cement. I've been building meganobs with poly cement and I haven't had any joint warping. If I'm working with metal, why would I bother with poly cement? I'd use pins and superglue, and any fool (not that you are, you're making some good arguments) would know that PLASTIC glue doesn't stick to METAL. If you're working with resin, then as a newbie not knowing what resin is, you would look it up. So far the only resin I've worked with is Forgeworld, and it's best to use resin mixes on that instead of regular superglue.

As for changing up items in a squad, then I would look up what I want on the squad before I build it. Ripping off the arms of a model that's been superglued is the same as dropping it off the tabletop, since it'll shatter apart anyway. Plastic glue takes time to bond anyway, so if there's a mistake you can move the piece and then it's fixed, BEFORE YOU EVEN PRIME IT. Superglue? The bond is instant, and then you have to rip the bits off, with the possibility of them flying about the room.

 nectarprime wrote:

 Deunstephe wrote:


Superglue and GS on plastic models is more of a pain, since you have to drill your holes, mix your GS, and then put the superglue in it. Plastic glue, just put a dab on and press the parts together.

Drill holes? What holes?

For the GS to go in, that way it doesn't smoosh around.

FINAL NOTE
Can we agree to disagree, as it seems we'll never find a middle ground without flaming each other to Zog.

To the OP,
As you can see there are a range of opinions regarding plastic glues and superglues (cyanoacrylates).
Basically plastic glue will give you a more permanent bond, while superglue will give you a bond that is somewhat more brittle.

If you think you might want to modify, re-equip or sell your miniatures someday, superglue might be the option for you.

If you want a stronger or more permanent bond, then plastic glue is a good option.

I use both types of glue for different projects. I have a watery brush applied plastic solvent (Plastruct Plastic weld) for fast assembly of some plastic models. I also have a thin super glue (BSI instacure) for gluing of well matched parts or strengthening existing bonds and a thicker rubberized superglue ( BSI Instaflex+ or Gorrilla Impact Tough)for gap filling and to make bonds between larger parts less brittle.

All different products for different uses. My personal opinion is that the smart modeler will make use of all of them in different situations , but YMMV.

Ailaros wrote:nail polish remover is acetone.
plastic glue is acetone.
acetone melts plastic.

Just wanted to address this as being only partly true.

SOME plastic glues are acetone. Not all. Some are MEK based and some have other solvents as their active ingredient.

Regarding the "melting", he's basically correct. Nearly all plastic glues have some sort of solvent in them that melts the plastic a bit, essentially allowing the two pieces of plastic to be fused into one.

Mmmmm yummy MEK

Deunstephe wrote:

 KingmanHighborn wrote:

 Deunstephe wrote:

 Ailaros wrote:

In any case, it's stupid. Plastic glue is for people who never want to do conversion work or to be able to sell their minis to anyone ever.

I have to reckon you're wrong, because plenty of people do extensive conversions on a lot of minis, and they are held together very well with plastic glue. But I guess to each their own.

It mostly depends on the brand of glue you use, since Tamiya glues hold models together amazingly well.

And flesh...it holds flesh together well...especially after your hobby knife goes into your thumb....

Are you talking about the Tamiya plastic glue or superglue?

 nectarprime wrote:
I've always been fine with superglue and GS, I have never found a reason to use plastic glue. It's too much of a pain and not forgiving.

Superglue and GS on plastic models is more of a pain, since you have to drill your holes, mix your GS, and then put the superglue in it. Plastic glue, just put a dab on and press the parts together.

Superglue in general, I've never had plastic glue near by to try, when my knife slips. (I'm a klutz, and I think my blades like me more then my models) I was actually thinking a zzap gap when you were talking about the Tamiya glue.

 KingmanHighborn wrote:

Deunstephe wrote:

 KingmanHighborn wrote:

 Deunstephe wrote:

 Ailaros wrote:

In any case, it's stupid. Plastic glue is for people who never want to do conversion work or to be able to sell their minis to anyone ever.

I have to reckon you're wrong, because plenty of people do extensive conversions on a lot of minis, and they are held together very well with plastic glue. But I guess to each their own.

It mostly depends on the brand of glue you use, since Tamiya glues hold models together amazingly well.

And flesh...it holds flesh together well...especially after your hobby knife goes into your thumb....

Are you talking about the Tamiya plastic glue or superglue?

 nectarprime wrote:
I've always been fine with superglue and GS, I have never found a reason to use plastic glue. It's too much of a pain and not forgiving.

Superglue and GS on plastic models is more of a pain, since you have to drill your holes, mix your GS, and then put the superglue in it. Plastic glue, just put a dab on and press the parts together.

Superglue in general, I've never had plastic glue near by to try, when my knife slips. (I'm a klutz, and I think my blades like me more then my models) I was actually thinking a zzap gap when you were talking about the Tamiya glue.

Ah okay, that clears it up then. Zap-a-gap, funnily enough, also sells plastic glue.

Nah, over-gluing isnt THAT bad. It will leave a noticable spot if its bad enough, but a quick file-job usually takes care of it (i use these tiny fine-toned files i got at a local store). You can paint over it just fine. The only time it causes issues is if you glue after you painted because then you cannot strip the paint off since its sealed under the glue lol.

Superglue is the standard. I use these cheapo 2 for $1.80 superglue bottles from a random store with home improvement stuff in it, it works fine. I have better glue (gel stuff) for more tedious projects but in general i use the cheap stuff.
Also you really only need a dab of glue for arms. Unless its metal or an odd surface, you rarely need more than a drop regardless of what it is youre gluing.

I personally have had more trouble with plastic glue then I have ever had working with superglue. I have had models almost fall apart by looking at them funny when put together with plastic glue and then refuse to break thanks to super.

 White Ninja wrote:
I personally have had more trouble with plastic glue then I have ever had working with superglue. I have had models almost fall apart by looking at them funny when put together with plastic glue and then refuse to break thanks to super.

You must be using some pretty terrible plastic glue. Which plastic glue were you using?

YO op use this stuff, you can get it at walmart for like 5 bucks and it comes with a brush, so you brush the super glue on, a dab will do you, goes on purple but drys clear.
https://www.google.com/shopping/product/609216956549865961?q=krazy%20glue&hl=en&bav=on.2,or.r_cp.r_qf.&bvm=bv.44158598,d.cGE&biw=1920&bih=979&sa=X&ei=wKpLUbW9J6bHiwKrp4DYBA&ved=0CHAQ8wIwAQ

 Ailaros wrote:
Plus, it really isn't for serious modelers. Just how are you going to scratchbuild with greenstuff using plastic glue? You're not. Acetone will both wreck the GS sculpt AND not glue the GS down. How are you working with plasticard? You're not, because the acetone is going to melt and warp the joints. How are you going to work with metal? You're not, because acetone doesn't do anything to bond metal. How are you going to work with resin? You're not, because acetone goes through resin like kleenex at a snot party.

There is exactly one use for plastic glue - for putting together plastic models more or less exactly according to the instructions. Even then, I hope you don't accidentally drip on something, or you've wrecked your model, and I really hope that you like that unit in exactly that configuration with exactly those weapons, because there's no way you're going to be able to go back in and change anything. Hope you don't make any mistakes either, because those are permanent.

If you're having problems keeping things stuck together with superglue, it's very likely you're using the superglue wrong (putting down multiple applications without cleaning the surface first, for example), or you just need to stop dropping your minis on the floor and stepping on them.

Plastic glue works fine for plasticard and other styrene shapes and parts. Whether you are using a amyl acetate, MEK or acetone based plastic glue - you can glue the parts together perfectly fine without worry of warping...unless of course you are dousing the objects with it - in which case it might melt them. There is a reason why companies like Plastruct who are major suppliers of plastic for scratch building have their own brand of plastic glue...but not of CA.

Urethane resins also are immune to most plastic glues. They don't run through them...they just don't do anything at all.

Regarding metal to metal...umm...OK, what part of "plastic" glue would indicate that metal to metal would work with it? That said, when dealing with composite miniatures which have plastic and metal/resin components - there is an old trick using plastic glue. In order to center holes for pinning, you can dip the metal or resin contact surface in a solvent cement and then push it against the plastic. The solvent will soften the plastic and allow it to conform to the surface so you have minimal gaps to clean up and fill with putty. If you predrilled for your pin - it will also leave a nub that marks the exact location you will need to drill on the plastic side for the pin. So, yep...pretty handy there too.

 Ailaros wrote:
Plus, it really isn't for serious modelers. Just how are you going to scratchbuild with greenstuff using plastic glue? You're not. Acetone will both wreck the GS sculpt AND not glue the GS down. How are you working with plasticard? You're not, because the acetone is going to melt and warp the joints. How are you going to work with metal? You're not, because acetone doesn't do anything to bond metal. How are you going to work with resin? You're not, because acetone goes through resin like kleenex at a snot party.

There is exactly one use for plastic glue - for putting together plastic models more or less exactly according to the instructions. Even then, I hope you don't accidentally drip on something, or you've wrecked your model, and I really hope that you like that unit in exactly that configuration with exactly those weapons, because there's no way you're going to be able to go back in and change anything. Hope you don't make any mistakes either, because those are permanent.

Just wanted to reply to the "Serious Modeler" comment. Plastic glue is THE main glue of choice for serious scale modelers, most of whom engage in some sort of kitbashing, modification etc. It's not just for model kits, it's also the glue of choice for architectural builders who use plascard, rod, etc.

If your plastic glue is warping your plascard, THEN you're doing something wrong.

Ailaros is right that superglue is the glue that is often necessary when dealing with greenstuff, or alternate materials like resin or metal but that doesn't mean that plastic glue is not right for the pieces assembled under the greenstuff, and he's completely wrong in suggesting that it's a bad choice for plasticard.

Solvent-based glues are what the professionals use when building, scratchbuilding and kitbashing in plastic. It's only us gamers who are worried about re-positioning, reselling or rearming (to compensate for whatever new codex GW shoves at us) who prefer cyanoacrylates for plastic model assembly.