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andystache wrote:


So really your response is I can't actually justify my response with RAW or with fluffy sources because the Dark Angels RW command squad can and does escort Techmarine so I'm going to resort to calling you names. This isn't rules lawyering, this is saying hey the Dark Angels aren't a codex Chapter and OMG they don't follow codex rules.

You cite how specifically the Command Squads are worded, but expect me to believe that the one Command squad that a Techmarine could unlock doesn't specify Techmarines don't unlock them. I know you're attached to your interpretation, but lacking a basis for your stance is no reason to start throwing around insults.

I don't know what I expected from you honestly, it's is painfully apparent you haven't read my posts in this thread, especially the one where I say that I do not run this type of army list. Hell you can click on my username, view my posts in Army Lists, but no. You don't have the wherewithal to research anything, you just want to call me names in an attempt to discredit my argument because you can't contradict me. So take your LRC and I'll table you, without a single Command squad. Your list is one dimensional and indicative of a lack of tactical knowledge. You rely on the most obvious combination in the codex because other people have run 24" lists. Please change your username to SM Addict, put down the DA codex and go play with Fling in smurf land. See I can insult you too, it's not that hard, especially when I'm not scrambling to defend my position without anything to support me

I do apologize for the name calling... It was meant in fun but obviously crossed the line. However I do strongly believe that RAI, Techmarines never unlock a command squad. RAW you can... Now the TO will have to determine this so let the fun begin.

I fail to see how your stance of GW didn't use an Oxford comma when listing the special rules for FMCs is in anyway related to my stance that the PW Command squad specifically disallows Techmarines while the RW does not. This is not an issue of proper grammar, which guess what the Oxford comma is considered to be optional so your comments really are the definition of cheating. A missing (and still grammatically correct) comma and a clause not being present are miles apart. One is a stylistic editing choice the other is a lack of words, several words for that matter, that would sustain your point.

Because I do not agree with you does not mean that I am attempting to cheat. It means that I read the words in the codex, see a cool option not presented before and want to make that option known to people who may have missed it.

You can say Techmarines don't take up a force org slot and I'll agree, but if we're talking about force org slots why do the Command Squads exempt themselves? They don't occupy a force org slot either, but GW felt the need to cite them for exclusion in each case.

EDIT- DAaddict - you know man, honestly I see that now, but at the time I was too fired up myself to see it as anything other than an attack. I respect that RAI for you is no, I likewise believe that RAI and RAW are together in this case. I think that if you give a Techmarine a bike you can escort him with the RW Command squad, but we can agree to disagree on this one. What's your RAI on multiple command squads per HQ choice? Again RAW would let a Master take both a PW and DW Command Squad by putting him in termie armor.

This is a tough one in my mind and I can see both points of view. Really (and you guys have already covered this), it all comes down to RaW and RaI.

My rules as written break down:

Starting with the codex entry for a techmarine, the fine print says (for each HQ choice in your army you may include a techmarine). Asmodai's army has this covered with Sam and the Libby [he could technically take two techmarines]

Where under Power Armored Command Squads it says explicitly "...Not including Techmarines...", but that axiom is not present for deathwing (obviously as Techmarines can't take Termie armor) and Ravenwing. Techmarines do have the option to take a bike, and according to the Ravenwing Command Squad entry, for each HQ choice that is mounted on a bike (again, note this does not have the same wording as PA Command Squads which clearly says Techmarines can not take PA Command Squads), they may have a RWCS.

Rules as written makes it pretty clear that you can take a Techmarine on Bike and therefore unlock a RWCS. In fact, you could technically do this twice as each HQ choice unlocks another Techmarine.

The only argument there is really, Does a Techmarine count as an HQ choice...or does it fall in the same area as Command Squads, which are technically HQ choices, but do not unlock other Command Squads?

RaW : You can take a Techmarine RWCS

My Opinion though, and my personal Theory, is that GW did not intend for this loophole, and most likely forgot to add in the powered armored command squad rule excluding techmarines. I bet they just copied and pasted from the Deathwing Command squad rules, and replaced 'Belial' with 'Sammael' and 'Deathwing' with 'Ravenwing', and forgot to add the Techmarine exception.

Until its FAQ'ed however, RaW is pretty clear.

Speaking of FAQ's, they better address (And yes i know it'll never happen but i can dream damnit):

-Deathwing Assault in pure Deathwing lists, could you reserve all of them, thus making Deathwing Lists much more competitive in my opinion and eliminating the nonsense of footslooging termies, or paying a land raider premium for transport). The catch here would be you'd have to Deathwing assault with at least one unit on the table turn one, so as not to auto lose. Maybe follow the same rules as Drop Pods?

-Incredibly, hilariously, over priced Nephilim, Dark Talon, and LS Vengeance

-Confirming that the Banner of Devastation effects all boltguns (including LRC Hurricane's). Personally I think it does, but confirmation would be wonderful.

For the FAQ I think it'll break down like this:

DWA - FAQ will confirm that you can do all DWA army because you declare your DWA after Warlord traits, but before deployment. At deployment your entire army must enter by deep strike so you're exempt from the 50% reserve rule. This is based on the previous FAQ establishing the "phases" that occur immediately before the player begins moving models.

Neph/Dark Talon - I think we'll see other flyers go up in price rather than ours coming down. Either that or you'll see drops in AV amongst other flyers

LS Vengeance - Dude I don't know. I want to like this thing, it'd be gravy if they took off Gets Hot!, but I can't see that happening. They don't normally adjust points costs with FAQ so I'm not holding out much hope. I think that's going to be relegated to people who want to run only RW armies and still have some firepower (granted I think the Typhoon does a better job for less points)

Banner of Devastation - Nothing to say on this one really, I don't expect it to be in an FAQ, but confirmation would be nice

A lot of the things that get heated here never show up in the FAQs because, well I have no idea honestly. I think that since GW isn't trying to make tourney ready rules they don't feel the need to include the really nit-picky stuff preferring to let TOs make the calls on those. Otherwise the BRB has the resolution to disagreements, roll a d6