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 Grey Templar wrote:

krazykishere wrote:

 Grey Templar wrote:
The Daemon player picks who denies, he'll pick the Warboss every time.

That is false. The daemon can only challenge the controlling player picks who accepts or denies

Yes, if he accepts he picks who accepts. If he declines, the player that issued the challange picks a character to sit out.

Where is this rule coming from?

Have I misread challenges?

The only rule I am aware of that lets the daemon player pick who takes the challenge is from the Slaanesh Loci of beguilement. And the GUO is nurgle.... so wondering how you got to this.

The Slannesh dude picks who accepts.

You always get to pick who declines.

Re-read how challenges and declining works.

Painboys have poisoned weapons

davou wrote:
Painboys have poisoned weapons

If that is true, it will work wonders against a T10 GUO

Painboys are characters and can be challenged. There's also only one unit in the dex that can get Painboyz and that's Nobz.

Getting into combat with that thing with anything other than sacrificial boyz would be ill-advised. He could smash your Nobz and thereby deny them their FNP save as well as causing instant death. Would you really rather have a Nob that dies in one wound with a single 5+ invulnerable save or would you rather have X numbers of wounds via Boyz?

 Green is Best! wrote:

 Grey Templar wrote:

krazykishere wrote:

 Grey Templar wrote:
The Daemon player picks who denies, he'll pick the Warboss every time.

That is false. The daemon can only challenge the controlling player picks who accepts or denies

Yes, if he accepts he picks who accepts. If he declines, the player that issued the challange picks a character to sit out.

Where is this rule coming from?

Have I misread challenges?

The only rule I am aware of that lets the daemon player pick who takes the challenge is from the Slaanesh Loci of beguilement. And the GUO is nurgle.... so wondering how you got to this.

i just had a re-read he is right pg 64 of the BRB and its in bold under refusing

Blob it down with boys. Also, is not the death rolla S10?

Ghazzy!

and is it an ic? if so Old z can also work wonders

Definitely Ghazz, 7 S10 attacks on the charge, declare a Waaagh and get a 2+ invul. Or could go 2 Warbosses in a blob of boys with a nob. Keep refusing challenges and still have one Warboss hitting him.

Tarpit it with a giant unit of Grots.

There's nothing more annoying than having your giant, bad-ass character stuck fighting off a bunch of tiny orks for 4 turns.....then, when he finally breaks free, smash him in the face with a Deffrolla.

Couldn't I accept the challenge, and have up to six re-rolls (one for every five dudes watching the challenge IIRC) from all the Ork Boyz sitting around doing nothing? Especially with Ghaz, thats practically six bonus attacks. I'd rather Gaz attacked +6 times than the boyz launched however many useless attacks

the thing about the 30boyz bubblewrap is you cannot charge something that cannot potentially hurt it - so long as your nob stays the hell away from it and keeps denying a challenge, you arent forced to disengage (not sure how that works) since boyz cant hurt it.

Can the GUO even roll for brb spells? i know the reason my weirdboyz cant is because nothing in the FAQ, BRB, or Codex says i can do it (as its a permissive-based ruleset i must be told i can to do it)

Also if he has Ironarm every single time i'd call him out on cheating because youre suppose to roll for powers in the open before a game begins, i sincerely doubt he got a 1 on a D6 every single game.

EDIT: You could have Ghaz face him and use the 30boyz as a reroll, im not sure if you'd kill him though. Ghaz is a badass but he is far from THE badass HQ since he lacks the MC title which opens a vast amount of options. At best, it would put one hell of a hurtin on him though.

 Vineheart01 wrote:
the thing about the 30boyz bubblewrap is you cannot charge something that cannot potentially hurt it - so long as your nob stays the hell away from it and keeps denying a challenge, you arent forced to disengage (not sure how that works) since boyz cant hurt it.

Again, same thing can be done a whole lot cheaper by using Grots. That Runtherd and his prod wounding on 4+ is enough to charge.

57 points (don't have my codex, so going off memory) to neuter a MC seems like a much better tarpit than the boyz, and lets you use said boyz for krumpin' elsewhere.

Man, that sounds like a fantastic idea. Absolutely fantastic! Could possibly be spamworthy in this case - I now know he's fielding a bunch of tarpit worthy stuff, plus theres a crapload of hideous 2nd edition grots online selling for next to nothing.

God, I always wondered why they put that grot prod thing on the runtherd. Seemed like such a pointless weapon. Now I know otherwise!

Just got the guy's army list off of him. He feels so confident about the outcome of the battle that he's told me what he's fielding in advance.

"A Great unclean one
Bloodthirster
2 squads of 10 bloodletters
2 squads of PlaugeBearers
one skull cannon
2 daemon princes one of khorne one of nurgle"

So GUO and Bloodthirster look like brilliant targets, would the Daemon Princes be worth drowning in grots as well?

I haven't the faintest clue what anything else is / is capable of so Ork counters for them or just general information about those units would be appreciated as well

 Dakkamite wrote:
Man, that sounds like a fantastic idea. Absolutely fantastic! Could possibly be spamworthy in this case - I now know he's fielding a bunch of tarpit worthy stuff, plus theres a crapload of hideous 2nd edition grots online selling for next to nothing.

God, I always wondered why they put that grot prod thing on the runtherd. Seemed like such a pointless weapon. Now I know otherwise!

Just got the guy's army list off of him. He feels so confident about the outcome of the battle that he's told me what he's fielding in advance.

"A Great unclean one
Bloodthirster
2 squads of 10 bloodletters
2 squads of PlaugeBearers
one skull cannon
2 daemon princes one of khorne one of nurgle"

So GUO and Bloodthirster look like brilliant targets, would the Daemon Princes be worth drowning in grots as well?

I haven't the faintest clue what anything else is / is capable of so Ork counters for them or just general information about those units would be appreciated as well

That will depend. Unfortunately I don't know that Daemon 'dex all that well -- but for the Bloodletters and PlagueBearers, you could probably put some hurt on them with Lootas.

I've run lists in the past that really worked on Tarpitting to some success. I would take a lot of Grots and tie up the big guys for a couple of turns while my elites and boyz took care of the "little stuff". Once they finished, I consolidated them on the tarpits to finish those off through sheer number of dice rolls.

While not the most tactical, it worked fairly well and was a pain for some of my opponents to deal with.

Usually ran the following "core":

Ghaz

3x mobs of 30 shoota boyz
3x mobs of 19 grots
2x mobs of 15 Lootas

That gave me a pretty good shooty green tide army for right around 1500 points as well as 177 models on the board. Movement phase was a PITA, but it was fun.

Add to that a few specialized units (Kommandos, Stormboys, Rokkit buggies, Deffkoptas etc.) or maybe another HQ like Zogwort and you have a fun list that should do well against your opponent IMO.

What is the point limit you guys are playing?

With Orks, if you HAVE to face it,...

power klaws, power klaws, power klaws, then bash his face with some deff rolla's, tank hunter tank hammers! Deff dread, killa kans in CC, hope for a awesome roll with the shokk atack gun.. Hope for a lucky roll on a zzzap gun... Maybe boom guns and rokkits can do some damage,... Throw ghazkull in his face or a mega armor warboss,..

There are a lot of options but most come with the risk of uncertainty,...And a guarantee that you will lose orks..

Personally i would throw a squad of 20 boyz with the mad dok at him and keep him stuck...and hopefully do some wounding before he releases my boyz from their misery..

What good will a greater daemon do if he cant use it properly.... and 20 boyz are only 120 points.... The mad dok will cost some but will make sure they dont die as easy and will keep em from running when they fall below 11 boyz....

well as others have said warbosses, tarpits etc, or lootas- in short lots of dice...

if those DPs are flying then we are in another ball game altogether...

on a more fun note, his list is ripe for being trolled by Dark Eldar (if you had allies hint hint ) all those high toughness models mean nowt to splinter weapons- i'd make him cry

Ally dark Eldar, Take a Heamon, shoot it with a Hex rifle. And watch him roll a 6 on his wounds characteristic. I do not think i have ever had an opponent as mad at me in my history of playing 40k when i pulled it off playing my DE.

For troops, take warriors with splinter poison 4+, or even wracks with h2h poison four, and the Champ can have a flesh gauntlet. Poison 4, instant death.

Assuming, you dont wanna ally DE.

Lootas, Mega armor Nobz with Pk, Def Dreads.

I mean if your opponent with the great unclean one, takes all biomancy. Then he has no offense range spells. Just avoid the Green blob. He can only move 6 a turn, he cant run, just stay 12" away from him.

 NickTheButcher wrote:

 Vineheart01 wrote:
the thing about the 30boyz bubblewrap is you cannot charge something that cannot potentially hurt it - so long as your nob stays the hell away from it and keeps denying a challenge, you arent forced to disengage (not sure how that works) since boyz cant hurt it.

Again, same thing can be done a whole lot cheaper by using Grots. That Runtherd and his prod wounding on 4+ is enough to charge.

57 points (don't have my codex, so going off memory) to neuter a MC seems like a much better tarpit than the boyz, and lets you use said boyz for krumpin' elsewhere.

Grotz aren't fearless, will run away. Also, they don't have nice things like waaaagh to get them into that charge, or a dedicated transport to get them across the board in time. UNfortunately, grots have only one place in the new codex, and that's to man the big guns/killakans

The Demon Princes are only T5 and maybe T6 for Nurgle, so they can be taken care of by enough Boyz.

davou wrote:

 NickTheButcher wrote:

 Vineheart01 wrote:
the thing about the 30boyz bubblewrap is you cannot charge something that cannot potentially hurt it - so long as your nob stays the hell away from it and keeps denying a challenge, you arent forced to disengage (not sure how that works) since boyz cant hurt it.

Again, same thing can be done a whole lot cheaper by using Grots. That Runtherd and his prod wounding on 4+ is enough to charge.

57 points (don't have my codex, so going off memory) to neuter a MC seems like a much better tarpit than the boyz, and lets you use said boyz for krumpin' elsewhere.

Grotz aren't fearless, will run away. Also, they don't have nice things like waaaagh to get them into that charge, or a dedicated transport to get them across the board in time. UNfortunately, grots have only one place in the new codex, and that's to man the big guns/killakans

I completely forgot that was FAQ'd (it's been awhile since I've played Orks)

So with that in mind, I suppose a mob of 30 boyz would be the way to go. Maybe instead of a PK, you could use a Big Choppa to save points since they would be locked in compbat for a good portion of the game (and since you will be denying any challenges)

Anyone suggesting Killa Kans, Deff Dreads, Meganobz or non-Bike/Ghazghkull Warbosses might want to reread the Smash rule and realize what it means for their suggestions...

 Vineheart01 wrote:
the thing about the 30boyz bubblewrap is you cannot charge something that cannot potentially hurt it - so long as your nob stays the hell away from it and keeps denying a challenge, you arent forced to disengage (not sure how that works) since boyz cant hurt it.

You are never forced to disengage. You cannot assault a vehicle you cannot hurt. Otherwise it's fair game.

I'd ignore the hell out of the GUO and deal with the winged beasties first. Enough Lootas should put them down though.

Wait, you can't even declare a charge against something you cant hurt?

No, scratch that...see my edit. I should have known not to take his word for it...lol

 SlaveToDorkness wrote:

 Vineheart01 wrote:
the thing about the 30boyz bubblewrap is you cannot charge something that cannot potentially hurt it - so long as your nob stays the hell away from it and keeps denying a challenge, you arent forced to disengage (not sure how that works) since boyz cant hurt it.

You are never forced to disengage. You cannot assault a vehicle you cannot hurt. Otherwise it's fair game.

I'd ignore the hell out of the GUO and deal with the winged beasties first. Enough Lootas should put them down though.

You actually don't have to be able to hurt a target to charge it.

Don't use Grots, they arn't fearless.

 AlmightyWalrus wrote:

 SlaveToDorkness wrote:

 Vineheart01 wrote:
the thing about the 30boyz bubblewrap is you cannot charge something that cannot potentially hurt it - so long as your nob stays the hell away from it and keeps denying a challenge, you arent forced to disengage (not sure how that works) since boyz cant hurt it.

You are never forced to disengage. You cannot assault a vehicle you cannot hurt. Otherwise it's fair game.

I'd ignore the hell out of the GUO and deal with the winged beasties first. Enough Lootas should put them down though.

You actually don't have to be able to hurt a target to charge it.

If its a vehicle you do.

 SlaveToDorkness wrote:

 AlmightyWalrus wrote:

 SlaveToDorkness wrote:

 Vineheart01 wrote:
the thing about the 30boyz bubblewrap is you cannot charge something that cannot potentially hurt it - so long as your nob stays the hell away from it and keeps denying a challenge, you arent forced to disengage (not sure how that works) since boyz cant hurt it.

You are never forced to disengage. You cannot assault a vehicle you cannot hurt. Otherwise it's fair game.

I'd ignore the hell out of the GUO and deal with the winged beasties first. Enough Lootas should put them down though.

You actually don't have to be able to hurt a target to charge it.

If its a vehicle you do.

BRB says you do, FAQ says you don't.

Which deals with the general Assault rules on pg 20. Then the specific rules for vehicles forbid it.

Happens all the time.