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Alright so a friend of mine is drawing deep from GWs teat, spending thousands to buy virtually every new Chaos Daemon and Greater Daemon for his pay to win army.

One model that scares the bajeezes out of me is his super Nurgle daemon, whatever its called, which with the "Iron Arm" upgrade becomes nothing less than Toughness 10 (armour save and WS unknown), which I know for certain will be in his army. I think it spawns Nurglings and/or drops massive low strength or poisoned pie plates as well.

How on earth do I counter this thing with my boyz? I'm coming up with nothing and need your help.

For reference purposes, since few of us face T10 on a daily basis...
Under STR 7 does nothing at all
STR 7 wounds on 6+
STR 8 wounds on 6+
STR 9 wounds on 5+
STR 10 wounds on 4+

Sofar mass Loota or big choppa spam or crushing it repeatedly with a tide of battlewagons seems to be my only hope. I typically deal with tough guys using PK, but in this case they're only worth it on the big boss, having exactly zero to-wound advantage over big choppas when used on Nobz.

Any and all cheese is permitted and I can counts-as any model as virtually anything else, blocks of wood as vehicles and so on, so anything goes.

Pay to win? Daemons? Have you even seen the new codex? Pay to win is CSM/Necron army and even that is not going to win without a decent amount of skill. The new daemons are mid tier but with some really cool new models.

T10 can be a pain for orks to KILL but they can keep it tied up all game with a single decently sized boyz unit. The unclean one just doesn't have enough attacks to deal with a big mob of boyz.

How do you work that out? Nobz w/PK are str9 on the charge, str8 otherwise and str7 on the charge with a big choppa, str6 otherwise, huge difference.

I think you're talking about a Great Unclean One. The greater daemon that hurls nurglings can't get to T10 since it has no access to biomancy, only nurgle powers.

The Great Unclean One still has to roll for iron arm on the powers chart and then needs to roll a 5 or 6 to get to T10. So it won't happen every game, nor will it happen every turn if he has iron arm. Otherwise it doesn't have a ton of attacks and still moves 6+D6 from running. Treat it like any other death star unit. Run away from it and ignore it.

By ignoring him and using the speed from your Trukks, wagons and bikers to maneuver and kill his scoring units, and unless you have killed his FMC w/Lootas (I assume he will have 1 as a GUO makes Nurgle DP HS) I wouldn't waste their shots on him. It is extremely slow and isn't even guaranteed to get Iron Arm. I saw a similar matchup and the daemon player got soundly beaten as he couldn't catch up with all the trukks and battle-wagons with his GUO,


Automatically Appended Next Post:

bogalubov wrote:
Istill moves 6+D6 from running.

Daemon of Nurgle gives Slow and purposeful USR, so it can't run BTW

 CaptainJay wrote:
How do you work that out? Nobz w/PK are str9 on the charge, str8 otherwise and str7 on the charge with a big choppa, str6 otherwise, huge difference.

Ah forgot about furious charge. That is quite a difference.

Treat it like any other death star unit. Run away from it and ignore it.

T10 can be a pain for orks to KILL but they can keep it tied up all game with a single decently sized boyz unit. The unclean one just doesn't have enough attacks to deal with a big mob of boyz.

Alright, so don't try to kill it, try to 'neutralize' it. Got ya

 ansacs wrote:
Pay to win? Daemons? Have you even seen the new codex? Pay to win is CSM/Necron army and even that is not going to win without a decent amount of skill. The new daemons are mid tier but with some really cool new models.

T10 can be a pain for orks to KILL but they can keep it tied up all game with a single decently sized boyz unit. The unclean one just doesn't have enough attacks to deal with a big mob of boyz.

I agree. Go give Papa Nurgle a group hug with 30 Boyz. Who cares if he kills 5 a turn? You've got plenty more!

Or, use massed Loota fire. S7 needs sixes to wound, but you're bound to get a few if you bring a couple units.

bogalubov wrote:

The Great Unclean One still has to roll for iron arm on the powers chart and then needs to roll a 5 or 6 to get to T10. So it won't happen every game, nor will it happen every turn if he has iron arm. Otherwise it doesn't have a ton of attacks and still moves 6+D6 from running. Treat it like any other death star unit. Run away from it and ignore it.

DoN have S&P which means they can't run, if you keep moving the big fatty will never catch you

Let's assume you need a 4+ to hit and a 6+ to wound, with a 3+ save, and 5 wounds. (I'm uncertain of GUO's new stats but this probably isnt far off)


That's about 190 attacks needed. How many Boyz are needed to do that, let's say in 2 game turns aka 4 turns of combat? (and I'm assuming the GUO can kill 4-5 Boyz per turn).

Don't kill it. The two best ways of dealing with a GUO are to either kite it (S&P means it can't run so it moves sloooow) or throw a blob of boyz on it to tie it up. With level 3 and a few gifts, he is going to run ~250 points so sacrificing 30 orks to him isn't a big deal. If he parks his GUO on an objective then just happily ignore that objective and watch as your opponent spent 250 points on a body guard for a scoring unit.

Also, he needs to roll Iron Arm and then roll a 3 on D3 to get T10. That's not outside the realm of possibility but you shouldn't assume that it is always going to be T10 all the time. On a turn where he fails his psychic test and cant cast Iron Arm or rolls a 1 you can shoot the stuffing out of him with Lootas if you really want to kill him.

You can try to attack him with a Nob squad on a low toughness turn as well, but I'm not sure I would recommend it.

 azazel the cat wrote:
Let's assume you need a 4+ to hit and a 6+ to wound, with a 3+ save, and 5 wounds. (I'm uncertain of GUO's new stats but this probably isnt far off)


That's about 190 attacks needed. How many Boyz are needed to do that, let's say in 2 game turns aka 4 turns of combat? (and I'm assuming the GUO can kill 4-5 Boyz per turn).

Boyz can't scratch T10, only the PK would work. And it needs 6s to wound(5s on the charge)


Anyway, ignore it or tie it up. Let him kill 5 boyz a round. With a mob of 30 that will be 4 rounds of CC before you start taking Ld tests.

He may not get Iron Arm, and he may not pass the psychic test every turn.

The GUO only has 5 attacks anyway (okay, 6 if you want to spend at least 30pts on two magic weapons). So he'd still have to roll off his socks and/or get the Warp Speed psychic power to even kill 5 boys per round. Average is only ~2.8 dead orks per round with 5A.

Of course, this is analyzing in a vacuum, and other units might pitch in to help, but the advice given in the thread is solid; he's a lot of points, slow as heck, and not very effective against big horde units which are Fearless.

So in reality its going to take more like 6-8 rounds to get the boys down to taking Ld tests.

I'll also mention that krak grenades also work in melee now. Not sure who can have them in the ork codex, but a few dozen S6 attacks might hurt him pretty bad.

Ghaz will do the job.

Any warboss with a powerklaw and an attack squig in a group of boys with a nob will eat his lunch. Nob denies the challenge and the warboss hits him with 5 s10 attacks every round. If you want to soften him up ram him with a deffrolla first.

The Daemon player picks who denies, he'll pick the Warboss every time.

Way to deal with a GUO. Ready? Get a 30 man mob of Boyz and tarpit him.

That's all.

Ok i was reading some of the above comments...got a little bored...and skipped to post my reply.


Orks excel at rolling fregging heaps of dice.
I am an Ork/Necron player, and believe you me, it is not that hard to roll 6's if you have a lot of dice (Necron's glancing Land Raiders to death on 6's because of Gauss.).

Lootaz are perfect, roll a 5 or 6 = 3 shots each. Lets say that there is a unit of 10 Lootaz, they roll a 5 = 3 shots each. That means 30 shots. Theoretically that means 10 shots hit. That means at least one 6 should be (theoretically rolled).

This is just a suggestion: Necron Allies
Get a triarch stalker with TL Gauss Cannon (S9). If you hit it, that could be a wound, but, for the remainder of that phase (i don't know if all or just necrons that shoot) all shots against that hit target is TL. Lootaz with TL could be brutal.

Then get a AoBR or equivalent Stat Warboss, maybe even in a Nob Squad with PK, and kill dat thang.
Charging Warboss with Pk = 5 S10 attacks. That could do something.

Generally keep away from it. If you want to kill it, don't direct too much of your force, as the enemy is probably taking it just to distract you/kill you. So ignore/keep away from it if you have neither of the aformentioned squads.


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 TedNugent wrote:
Way to deal with a GUO. Ready? Get a 30 man mob of Boyz and tarpit him..

or this could work...

Zogwort can turn him into a squig.

Dakka jet could put some wounds on it as well. Might even really hurt it on the waaaagh

krazykishere wrote:

 Grey Templar wrote:
The Daemon player picks who denies, he'll pick the Warboss every time.

That is false. The daemon can only challenge the controlling player picks who accepts or denies

Yes, if he accepts he picks who accepts. If he declines, the player that issued the challange picks a character to sit out.

krazykishere wrote:
Dakka jet could put some wounds on it as well. Might even really hurt it on the waaaagh

You really should read BRB pg 64 again...

then get a towel for that egg.

bogalubov wrote:
I think you're talking about a Great Unclean One. The greater daemon that hurls nurglings can't get to T10 since it has no access to biomancy, only nurgle powers.

The Great Unclean One still has to roll for iron arm on the powers chart and then needs to roll a 5 or 6 to get to T10. So it won't happen every game, nor will it happen every turn if he has iron arm. Otherwise it doesn't have a ton of attacks and still moves 6+D6 from running. Treat it like any other death star unit. Run away from it and ignore it.

The Great Unclean is toughness 6

 whitedragon wrote:
Zogwort can turn him into a squig.

Doesn't Zoggy only work on ICs? The GDs aren't ICs.

 mrblacksunshine_1978 wrote:

bogalubov wrote:
I think you're talking about a Great Unclean One. The greater daemon that hurls nurglings can't get to T10 since it has no access to biomancy, only nurgle powers.

The Great Unclean One still has to roll for iron arm on the powers chart and then needs to roll a 5 or 6 to get to T10. So it won't happen every game, nor will it happen every turn if he has iron arm. Otherwise it doesn't have a ton of attacks and still moves 6+D6 from running. Treat it like any other death star unit. Run away from it and ignore it.

The Great Unclean is toughness 6

No, he's 7.

 Mannahnin wrote:

 whitedragon wrote:
Zogwort can turn him into a squig.

Doesn't Zoggy only work on ICs? The GDs aren't ICs.

Correct... only ICs.

Is there any ICs in the new codex?

Heralds, of course.

 Mannahnin wrote:
Heralds, of course.

Wait... heralds can be spammed like no tomorrow...right? 3/HQ slot?

Hmmmm... Zoggy might be fun to field in a friendly game.

 mrblacksunshine_1978 wrote:

bogalubov wrote:
I think you're talking about a Great Unclean One. The greater daemon that hurls nurglings can't get to T10 since it has no access to biomancy, only nurgle powers.

The Great Unclean One still has to roll for iron arm on the powers chart and then needs to roll a 5 or 6 to get to T10. So it won't happen every game, nor will it happen every turn if he has iron arm. Otherwise it doesn't have a ton of attacks and still moves 6+D6 from running. Treat it like any other death star unit. Run away from it and ignore it.

The Great Unclean is toughness 6

He is Toughness 7 in the new codex. Greater Rewards can give him +1 W, it will not die, FNP 4+, reroll inv save, or a 3+ armor save. Biomancy can give him +D3 Str/Toughness (thus 7 + 3 = 10), Eternal warrior, FNP, it will not die, or +D3 Init/Attacks.