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So that bloodthirster is going to be a pain, as will the DPs, but only alightly less so. He's running a flying circus list, so basically shoot his flying mcs down, then engage. If you can get the charge you're good, but keep in mind the BT is T6 with five wounds and 7 attacks on the charge.

Jesus.

First of all it's a points sink for at best a 50% chance to get the power.

Just use deffrollas and/or power klaws to kill it.

Try to multi-assault it and something else you can kill, win the combat and force daemonic instability.

If you win combat by enough to force an Instability test that has a chance of any serious damage you probably killed him with normal attacks.

That is why I said multi-assault. Beat up another unit (say horrors) and force him to take an instability test without wounding him at all.

So you will be banking on that he has another unit nearby that you can beat up.

That will work only once if he's got any skill at all. After that, he'll keep his GUO far away from other units.

 Grey Templar wrote:
So you will be banking on that he has another unit nearby that you can beat up.

That will work only once if he's got any skill at all. After that, he'll keep his GUO far away from other units.

Mistakes can be made in 40k.

 Grey Templar wrote:
So you will be banking on that he has another unit nearby that you can beat up.

That will work only once if he's got any skill at all. After that, he'll keep his GUO far away from other units.

It was the preferred tactic against TMCs in 5th. It's not like it's a new idea.
And if it worked half as often as people said it did in 5th it'll be effective in 6th.

So use some poisoned weapons. The Dark Eldar splinter weapons wound on a 4+, regardless of toughness. I think the Sternguard's Hellfire rounds or whatever (they have a poisoned one) wounds on a 2+. I think Sniper weapons wound on a 2+ too, I dunno (I don't have them in my army). 'Nids are obviously loaded with poisoned things everywhere.

You can also use Fleshbane weapons if you have them (wound on a 2+).

Anyway, the Great Unclean One is a very slow, lumbering thing, which is easily tarpitted by infantry blobs. By the time it's done killing 30 Orks, the game will probably be over. You don't have to kill the Greater Demon to win y'know; you need to fulfill the objectives in time.

remember your not gonna infantry blob a GUO. any decent player is gonna surround him with beast of nurgle. If you do not think thats a big deal re-read "attention seeker" entry on the Beast of nurgle.

Kill everything else first.

The most amusing solution: surrounding it with grots. GUO charges the grots, grots run, GUO cannot run them down because of s&p. Grots regroup rinse repeat.

Realistically tarpit it with boys. 6 attacks/turn will average about 4 dead orks with slightly above average rolls. It cannot run so if it enters combat turn 3 and goes until turn 7 that's only 28 dead orcs. Orks lose about a 200 point unit and a 300 point deamon does nothing else that game.

Unless beasts of nurgle join the fight. Best kill those first.

If the beasts join the fight, beat up the beasts for easy combat resolution and pop the GUO with Instability wounds.

DaddyWarcrimes wrote:
If the beasts join the fight, beat up the beasts for easy combat resolution and pop the GUO with Instability wounds.

We must play two different types of games... beast are t5, with 5++. A majority is gonna hit back. And a Guo, is going to have 6-9 attacks back, with spells from Bio. Meaning hes gonna do 4-6 perhaps 7 wounds alone.
Also remember All Nurgle have defense grenades... no charge bonus attacks.
A mob charging not getting +1 bonus attack really hurts.

anyway this is all hypothetical, but i dont see how anyone would run the GUO without a beast of nurgle escort. Or Plague drone screen at the very least.

For what its worth, i would also throw in a herald with grimoire exalted gift and try to keep pumping my GUO with a 3+ invul.

I like the thought of a GUO losing wounds do to DI, i just dont see it happening. So i state again, as stated earlier in this discussion. Poison, or ID attacks are your best bet against a GUO.

Or another DP


Cheers.

T5 with a 5+ save with 4 wounds, at 52 points per model. The save being invulnerable is meaningless. 29 Orks 87 attacks, for 58 hits and 9 or 10 wounds, which it might save 3, inflicting 6, which kills at least 1 beast. Meanwhile, the beasts kill 1 ork each. The Nob gets obliterated by the GD in a challenge, so unless there are at least 4 beasts, the orks win combat, and Instability kicks in.

Even with Shoota Boyz, the orks take 58 swings, land 38 hits, do 6 wounds, get 2 saved and kill 1 beast, requiring there to be at least 2 beasts in the unit to draw the combat.

Assuming he gets Warp Speed and Iron Arm, and casts both of them, he's a minimum of 215 points, along with 104 points for the 2 beasts to draw against Shoota Boyz, or 208 points to draw against Slugga Boyz.

Needing 6s to wound is the only thing that even remotely slows the orks down.. If you can keep the beasts out by assaulting them with something like a unit of Deffkoptas or warbikes, and can instead multi-assault into something like plaguebearers, the GUO is done. You just need a character to feed the greater daemon and a massive punching bag unit to pour wounds into.

.

Beast are I2, they go same time as orks. A unit of 6 does 6d6+6 attacks. Whats average? 27 hits? Thats 13-14 wounds, orks save 2 maybe 3.... thats 11-12 wounds by my calculations. ( i know their 52 points a model, but you run 6. I run 6 drones currently and they are 52 (with upgrades) also and well worth it) But you are correct there does have to be 5+. I mean why bother running anything less if your a nurgle player.

Not to mention if you some how do win combat.. its by 1 or 2... hell lets say 5 (which is very unlikely, i'd bet non existent...) but lets say he loses by 5. That makes his leadership a 4. Average roll on 2d6 is 7... so the Guo takes 3 wounds from DI (hes still there)... Next round, nite nite orks. No more challenges.

I mean we can throw math back and fourth, but if we are then lets do it from a non-favorable standpoint. Nurgle players will run more then 4 beast and Beast kill more then 5 orks...

Poison, Instant death weapons, or another GD is the way to kill that GUO. assuming you are gonna ally.

Also the Default nurgle spell, kills 2 orcs on the way in. If he rolled plague wind on the GUO. He would be ecstatic to see mobs of orks on the table (12" range, str1, ap2, poison 4 large blast) And he surrounds the GUO with the Beast and swarms so you cant even charge him if he gets to within 12".

Original poster, Look for things that dont require h2h Is my advice. Assuming you don't want to ally anything. Using strictly orcs? Drive by wrecking ball/hammers. Bomb Squigs, Dakka jets on the wagghhh. Deff Rollers, or lootas are superior then relying on 30 orcs.

This is also assuming your opponent IS screening his GUO, or has a Beast of nurgle unit nearby.

But even if he is in the open and you charge 30 orks. Hes gonna challenge you, sending your nob to the rear. He goes first and kills 5 orks. Thats 50 attacks back from you, if he has the Eternal Blade, which he should. He could make you be hitting on 5's.. Assuming he doesnt get the bonus 3 WS. you hit 25 times. You wound on 6's? (are orks str 3). You do 4 wounds. He saves 1, you are fearless. Hes gonna send help, if he doesn't, He challenges again sending your nob to the rear. killing 5 more orks on i4, you come back with 40 attacks, 20 hits, 3-4 wounds. So you may get him in 2 rounds. Maybe, if dice are with you. I highly doubt it. H2H is not the way for orks on this guy.

312 points of beasts plus a 215 point GUO that got the exact 2 powers it needed is a decent chunk of an army . At that point, no 30 orks won't handle it, but 500 points of shoota boyz is 60 orks and 2 power klaw nobz, with room to spare for a warboss with a power klaw.

58 orks throw 116 hits into the beasts for 19 wounds. The beasts save 6, take 12, and lose 3 beasts. They inflict 15 hits, for about 11 wounds back to the orks, killing 9 orks. The Nob adds 1 or 2 more with his power klaw, and the warboss adds 3 more S10 power klaw wounds after invuls. All told, the orks lose 11 wounds, inflict 26, and unless the GUO rolls snake-eyes, it dies outright to combat resolution, as do the other beasts.

Beasts are a neat idea, but they are a liability for greater daemons, and way, way too pricey to be used in large numbers.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Why decline the challenge? Losing the nob doesn't break you. Losing the nob means he stays in combat with a mob of Boyz an extra round, giving you more time to kill the rest of the daemons.

DaddyWarcrimes wrote:
312 points of beasts plus a 215 point GUO that got the exact 2 powers it needed is a decent chunk of an army . At that point, no 30 orks won't handle it, but 500 points of shoota boyz is 60 orks and 2 power klaw nobz, with room to spare for a warboss with a power klaw.

58 orks throw 116 hits into the beasts for 19 wounds. The beasts save 6, take 12, and lose 3 beasts. They inflict 15 hits, for about 11 wounds back to the orks, killing 9 orks. The Nob adds 1 or 2 more with his power klaw, and the warboss adds 3 more S10 power klaw wounds after invuls. All told, the orks lose 11 wounds, inflict 26, and unless the GUO rolls snake-eyes, it dies outright to combat resolution, as do the other beasts.

Beasts are a neat idea, but they are a liability for greater daemons, and way, way too pricey to be used in large numbers.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Why decline the challenge? Losing the nob doesn't break you. Losing the nob means he stays in combat with a mob of Boyz an extra round, giving you more time to kill the rest of the daemons.

We disagree with the usefulness and effectiveness on the beast them selves.

I run 3 daemons, 6 plague at 52 each, another fast attack with 15 models in the unit, some chariots and 3 troop choices in my 1850.

but we do agree on how many orks it takes to get to the center or a lolipop. LOL

And you are right about accepting the challenge it does tie it up another round. but when the orks finally lose, you dont want to lose on ork turn. ( also: do orks needs the nob alive for the mob rule, i honestly dont know?)

But honestly If GUO rolls one spell on the nurgle table, hes gonna love to see big units or orks no matter which one it is.

The great unclean one, isn't a unit for killing, it's a unit for tieing up, and hunting down very dangerous stuff with. The way to counter it, is to do exactly what it's not built for, which is killing weak hordes.

While you have no reliable access to instant death as orks, you do have models in abundance, so tie it up, and resign yourself to the fact that you are very unlikely to get slay the warlord.

Tieing up also works against all the other greater daemons, but they will have a better chance at chewing through orks, particularly the keeper of secret's, which is practically built for mowing it's way through cheap infantry.

In short, you will have an easier time with them than the average marine player for instance, due to an abundance of disposable troops.

What you would be hurt by most, is a lord of change, as it packs a metric ton of weaker shot's while it is flying, rather than a small number of high strength hit's while it is in combat. Fear the lord of change.

How many points is this thing worth?


Seems like if you wanted min points to kill the thing... send a biker boss after him.. 145-160 points vs.

or for a little more security thanks to the rerolls from get em boss, warboss backed by lots of boys/grots.... 235 points if you have a boss and 30 grots vs.


or in big games, send a few bosses at him, decline challenge and 1 round drown him in S10 PK attacks. (I would charge the bosses in solo, not as a unit, in case you lose so he doesn't sweep entire unit in a single roll in event you yahtzee to hit rolls)

Except that Orks are T4, so your odds of doing a huge amount of damage with Rancid Visitations is pretty small.

Edit: If you want to kill hordes, bring a Lord of Change with a Staff of Change.

When it comes down to it, the GUO with upgrades, is now the single most survivable model in the game. Not the most dangerous by a long shot, but the most survivable.

The enemy is counting on you wasting resources trying to kill it. Don't play into their hands

I play it myself, and It's just bliss to see entire armies waste their shooting at it, for it to take maybe one wound or two max most times. Gives the rest of my army the time it needs.

 Evileyes wrote:
When it comes down to it, the GUO with upgrades, is now the single most survivable model in the game. Not the most dangerous by a long shot, but the most survivable.

I'd argue that Fateweaver when combined with the Grimoire of True Names effect is more survivable. An FMC with a 2++ that rerolls all save rolls of 1, with T5 and 5 (?) wounds is going to take forever to kill.

Why would you put a Nob with a Power Klaw in a tarpit unit?

That's a giant waste of points. The whole point is you want 20 Fearless wounds. Anything else would be pointless. There's nothing else in the Ork Codex that could hope to kill a GUO. They've given us the best tarpit unit out of any Codex, and you want to ruin it with a Power Fist?

Frankly, everything that's scary should be dealt with this way. 30 Ork Boyz. If he gets through that many, give him 30 more.

release the shock attack gun! why havent any said it yet, get that double six and toss it back into the warp! (small chanse but big fun)

because the SAG is unreliable as hell. I rarely put it on a single model unless its within a reasonable scater distance of other models or its the only thing in sight.

I just had a game where turn 1 (well, 2 i couldnt fire turn 1 cuz of nightfighting) i rolled snakeyes and wiped out half my ADL gunline i had set up. No idea how pissed i was.

Poison, Instant death weapons, or another GD is the way to kill that GUO. assuming you are gonna ally.

I will have Necron allies available, but Dark Eldar is also a possibility. Specifically a Destroyer Lord (with any gear), and Necron destroyers or heavy destroyers. Plus my Tin 'eads if he lets me use them.

Is a Nob needed for Mob Rule

Pretty sure it isn't.

 Vineheart01 wrote:
because the SAG is unreliable as hell. I rarely put it on a single model unless its within a reasonable scater distance of other models or its the only thing in sight.

I just had a game where turn 1 (well, 2 i couldnt fire turn 1 cuz of nightfighting) i rolled snakeyes and wiped out half my ADL gunline i had set up. No idea how pissed i was.

I hear ya. I remember a game in 5th where my Bomb squiq blew up a Trukk loaded with Boyz. Explosion killed 7 boyz. After that I added more blue paint to my army and stopped using bomb squigs.

Dem' Orks can be really unpredictable....but fun

No, Mob Rule is an ork rule for all orks. Only vehicles and grots lack it (they took it off the Runtherder i believe to avoid confusion about him being with 30+ models anyway). Nob is not needed for that.

Runtherder's default wargear remove 1 attack in btb. 3 herders equals minus 3 attack to a min. of 1. Could slow something big down?

Geezeso far everyone has skipped around my favorite Killing tarpit ..

30 Gretchin ..3 Runtheredz with Grot Prods..Mod Dok ...

Its pricey yes but its a situational Group ..its fearless and has rage ..it has several poison attacks ..and it has FNP ..yea so you will lose 4-9 grotz total ..but in 1-2 turns whatever its fighting is DEAD ...(10 poison attacks/turn)



Automatically Appended Next Post:
6 at ws 4 and 4 at ws 5 .

insead of Mad Doc you can use old Zog and either turn him into a squig or get a random number of additional poison attacks at 2+ ...either way hes dead before you have to make a leadership roll ..


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Hmn yep Mad Dok and the Grotz is the better choice ..they should have your nurgle deamon dead in one round and will then run to the next group and kill it ..This tarpit will keep going till its dead then Mad Dok joins the next blobby group and keeps the charge rolling ...