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 mattyrm wrote:
The resale value thing is a misnomer, check eBay. Second hand ones go for feth all.

I think this might depend on 'era' for older edition wargame materials in general. There's a certain amount of fondness for 2nd edition books for 40k, so they're still somewhat valuable... I paid a bit extra for a 2nd edition SoB book years ago even though it wasn't useful for me for rules. I just wanted to see what it had in it.

Im old school me, I prefer to buy actual physical goods, I like to actually get something for my money.
Im not a fan of apple I-business either but im not going to knock it, each to his own, i can see the pros of a digital version as well.

 jah-joshua wrote:

@Oni: each issue is just under 400 megs...

...

 jah-joshua wrote:

some things, like the 360's are on GW's site, but the digimag saves me when there is no internet available (remember, i live in the third world, where services are not always dependable)...

But you've still got to download the 400 megs in the first place, which can be pretty tedious on an unreliable connection. I'm sure a siterip of games workshops site (minus video) wouldn't be that big.

I had no idea it was that big, and that means you're pretty limited on the lower sized iPads (16GB? that's about 2% of the available storage space an issue, which doesn't sound much until you've already got a lot of stuff on there, and one of the reasons I wouldn't buy a tablet without expandable memory.)

 Balance wrote:

 mattyrm wrote:
The resale value thing is a misnomer, check eBay. Second hand ones go for feth all.

I think this might depend on 'era' for older edition wargame materials in general. There's a certain amount of fondness for 2nd edition books for 40k, so they're still somewhat valuable... I paid a bit extra for a 2nd edition SoB book years ago even though it wasn't useful for me for rules. I just wanted to see what it had in it.

Those older magazines have content worth reading, the current magazine is nearly worthless as new let alone dog-eared after you've been reading it on the throne.

I've bought the last two issues of WD digital and they come to just a hair under 1 GB.

I have a 50 MB/s DOCSIS3 connection which reliably gets 37 MB/s sustainable download speeds. Yet, downloading WD digital still takes 20-30 minutes.

So, it's either take up shelf space or take up iPad storage space. I have a 32GB iPad, but eventually space will become a rare commodity.

What I would really like to know is if Newsstand allows the files to be stored on your iMac or PC to be shuffled on/off the iPad when storage starts getting tight. My PC died and I haven't replaced it yet.

 oni wrote:
I've bought the last two issues of WD digital and they come to just a hair under 1 GB.

I have a 50 MB/s DOCSIS3 connection which reliably gets 37 MB/s sustainable download speeds. Yet, downloading WD digital still takes 20-30 minutes.

So, it's either take up shelf space or take up iPad storage space. I have a 32GB iPad, but eventually space will become a rare commodity.

Ouch. I wonder if GW is using the Adobe converter that drew some fire when it came otu because it made really inefficient files. I have several relatively complex PDFs on my iPod Touch (synched via GoodReader) that are under 150mb each for well over 100 pages each.

 oni wrote:

What I would really like to know is if Newsstand allows the files to be stored on your iMac or PC to be shuffled on/off the iPad when storage starts getting tight. My PC died and I haven't replaced it yet.

I would hope so, but I don't know if this is true or not!

Well, first they're not PDFs. They have copious amounts of embedded images that you can manipulate. Further, each issue has also included a video. That probably has something to do with the file size.

You can download the issues at any time. I cycle mine out with the touch of a button. Pretty simple.

 cincydooley wrote:
Well, first they're not PDFs. They have copious amounts of embedded images that you can manipulate. Further, each issue has also included a video. That probably has something to do with the file size.

You can download the issues at any time. I cycle mine out with the touch of a button. Pretty simple.

Redownloading is all fine and well, but I have no faith GW will keep them available indefinitly.

What happens when the next big thing comes out and the iPad is made obsolete? What happens to all our precious digital White Dwarfs? What about when you drop your iPad off the 3rd floor balcony and can't afford the $600-$700 to buy a new one?

I'm not trying to be a pessimist here, these are the questions that come into my mind when deciding if I want continue buying digital WD or go back to paper.

I was in the bookstore last week.
Decided to pick up new issues of Penthouse and White Dwarf.
On the way to the register ran into the Minister of my church.
I quickly hid the WD behind the skin mag so he wouldn't see it.
Digital for pr0n and WD. Definitely the way to avoid embarrassment.

 oni wrote:

 cincydooley wrote:
Well, first they're not PDFs. They have copious amounts of embedded images that you can manipulate. Further, each issue has also included a video. That probably has something to do with the file size.

You can download the issues at any time. I cycle mine out with the touch of a button. Pretty simple.

Redownloading is all fine and well, but I have no faith GW will keep them available indefinitly.

What happens when the next big thing comes out and the iPad is made obsolete? What happens to all our precious digital White Dwarfs? What about when you drop your iPad off the 3rd floor balcony and can't afford the $600-$700 to buy a new one?

I'm not trying to be a pessimist here, these are the questions that come into my mind when deciding if I want continue buying digital WD or go back to paper.

I guess I don't think about it because I got rid of about 4 years of WD last week because I was tired of them taking up space.

If you drop and break your ipad, I guess that's on you. I guess I'm just not concerned with the ipad becoming obsolete either. They're on, what, the 11th generation of iPod? Heck. My gen 3 iPod still works! Ill take the gamble, I suppose.

Implying WD is relevant now a day. I've been in the hobby for about three years and I never bought one nor did I read a single interesting line in a WD at my FLGS.
A lost cause.

Like the OP said, this isn't a thread to discuss whether you like WD or not.

I much much prefer digital to paper - the benifits of not having to store all these old magazines is great, and I like the interactivity and quality of whats displayed.

A lot of this debate goes down the same route of Kindle vs Physical book. A lot of the arguments for physical books along the lines of GW pulling the line of digital books or iTunes going down' is nonesntical - you're more likely to have your house burn your physical WD kindling...

Personally I like the traditional magazine rather than a digital version. I mean you can take it with you anywhere and it doesn't have a battery unlike a digital version like say on your ipad/kindle/etc.

 oni wrote:

 cincydooley wrote:
What happens when the next big thing comes out and the iPad is made obsolete? What happens to all our precious digital White Dwarfs? What about when you drop your iPad off the 3rd floor balcony and can't afford the $600-$700 to buy a new one?

iPad minis are closer to the $349 range, I believe. Not sure how this kind of content will look on the smaller display, though.

Bought the new WD400 (digital) to give it one last shot, hoping for the best... Again, despite what GW advertises it has LESS content vs. the paper WD.

Edit - Im finding that:

most pictures that span two pages do not get put into WD digital.

The page foldouts do not get put in.

Most images are drastically smaller (I assume this is to fit the screen format).

 Sean_OBrien wrote:

Take a look at some of these older Harbinger Magazines, as they made a fair use of the bells and whistles available at the time (and remember - those are 6 or 7 years old now).

http://web.archive.org/web/20080420194221/http://www.harbingermagazine.com/downloads.htm

Well I can point to this why paper is better than digital. Tried to download and open the files and Adobe can't read them. Updated the reader to the latest version and no luck. Probably something wrong on my end :(

When is the last time you bought a magazine or book in your native language, open it, and can't read it?

Though if that did happen, you may be having a stroke <_<;

silent25 wrote:

 Sean_OBrien wrote:

Take a look at some of these older Harbinger Magazines, as they made a fair use of the bells and whistles available at the time (and remember - those are 6 or 7 years old now).

http://web.archive.org/web/20080420194221/http://www.harbingermagazine.com/downloads.htm

Well I can point to this why paper is better than digital. Tried to download and open the files and Adobe can't read them. Updated the reader to the latest version and no luck. Probably something wrong on my end :(

When is the last time you bought a magazine or book in your native language, open it, and can't read it?

Though if that did happen, you may be having a stroke <_<;

Erm, so take two minutes and try one of the dozen, better and less vulnerable PDF readers out there(and you do have Flash installed and updated, right?)? I use SumatraPDF myself.

 Howard A Treesong wrote:

 Balance wrote:

 mattyrm wrote:
The resale value thing is a misnomer, check eBay. Second hand ones go for feth all.

I think this might depend on 'era' for older edition wargame materials in general. There's a certain amount of fondness for 2nd edition books for 40k, so they're still somewhat valuable... I paid a bit extra for a 2nd edition SoB book years ago even though it wasn't useful for me for rules. I just wanted to see what it had in it.

Those older magazines have content worth reading, the current magazine is nearly worthless as new let alone dog-eared after you've been reading it on the throne.

This. The old ones also have those really cool building tutorials.

 Yodhrin wrote:

Erm, so take two minutes and try one of the dozen, better and less vulnerable PDF readers out there(and you do have Flash installed and updated, right?)? I use SumatraPDF myself.

I think you are missing the point. I now need to go through and try different programs. Make sure other items are updated and everything installs correctly and then I can finally read it.

Paper doesn't need Version 10.2 eyes, eyelids6.0a, and handsrev2.5 to read.

So I've had a WD subscription since 2002 and read them pretty regularly in the late 80's. I went digital last year when the switch was made.


1. portable. If I have a connection, I can pull in latest issue sitting on my couch.
2. I can put content on or off my WD as needed.
3. I can favorite or book mark them for later.
4. I can read it in my office or a meeting an look like I'm working : D
5. The digital is searchable
6. I can add bookmarks to issues
7. Some of the pictures blow up really big and you get the 360 view.
8. The digital WD painting guides suck. Pics are too small by far. If they wanted to improve the digital Mag content just do 1 or 2 painting articles like they do in the painting guides they sell. Hell, they could just re-use content. Those guides are seriously amazing. But the WD guide is smallish pic and list of paint... bleh.
9. I can't increase the font size in either. I was hoping I could in digital lay out. My old eyes suck.
10. Why is the file so big on the digital? I mean I have Men's health with tons of pics and it doesn't clock in at 1/2 the size. Cooking light only about 100MB. Seriously WTFeth. It is huge. If I can get SD version of Avengers for 1.2 GB why is a white dwarf 557MB.
11. I don't have 60 issues of WD sitting around my home any more in some rare thought I might actually want a painting article.
12. Seriously make the WD digital about $5 USD vs current cost would be great. Sell me a version with a real painting guide for $10 and I buy it.

So net net... I like the digital for convenience. It is always on me. I keep it with the digital codex and other digi content.

silent25 wrote:

 Yodhrin wrote:

Erm, so take two minutes and try one of the dozen, better and less vulnerable PDF readers out there(and you do have Flash installed and updated, right?)? I use SumatraPDF myself.

I think you are missing the point. I now need to go through and try different programs. Make sure other items are updated and everything installs correctly and then I can finally read it.

Paper doesn't need Version 10.2 eyes, eyelids6.0a, and handsrev2.5 to read.

No I understand the point perfectly, I just don't think it's particularly persuasive; we're talking about two minutes of effort to google "free PDF readers", download the one that appeals, and install it, nobody is being asked to hand-craft the Great Wall of China with a bucket&spade. As for Flash, if you use your computer to browse the internet and you don't keep Flash updated, you're just asking for trouble, that's not additional effort you're required to go to in this specific case, keeping core software updated is part of the general operation of a PC.

I prefer digital to paper, but I prefer paper to iPad only. If GW released the ebooks where I could read them on my PC AND on my laptop AND on a tablet then I'd most definitely prefer digital. As it is, paper for me, thank you very much.

Well, I'm not interested in buying an ipad, so I don't have firsthand experience.

But drawing on the description and videos I've seen both here and elsewhere, I'd say that the digital version is more idea for the purposes of wargaming. The abilities to zoom, to scroll and pan around, to rotate images - that's going to be a better experience. I love the tactile experience of reading a book - the feel of the paper, the smell of a new book even - but the first time you use the bookmarks in a PDF'd codex you don't want to go back.

If I'm reading the backstory, I want the dead tree edition. If I'm looking up a rule because I'm playing digital seems the way to go.

 Yodhrin wrote:

No I understand the point perfectly, I just don't think it's particularly persuasive; we're talking about two minutes of effort to google "free PDF readers", download the one that appeals, and install it, nobody is being asked to hand-craft the Great Wall of China with a bucket&spade. As for Flash, if you use your computer to browse the internet and you don't keep Flash updated, you're just asking for trouble, that's not additional effort you're required to go to in this specific case, keeping core software updated is part of the general operation of a PC.

Nope, flash is up to date and adobe can't read the file. Again, you are saying, "Your just using the wrong program". I guess I'm the only one who sees this as a problem.

Here, read this, but first you will need to download this, update this, and set this to this setting.

Where as paper. You hand it to the person.

Frick, few months ago was helping my mom clean out my old room. Threw out a ton of floppy disks for the Mac from 20 years ago. The old White Dwarfs from 20 years ago, was able to read them and take them home for later reading.

The digital convenience of today can become difficult and inaccessible tomorrow.

The digital convenience of today can become difficult and inaccessible tomorrow.

QFT. Even though I do like my technological advances, as and example, I still do all of my banking via paper, you know those things called... checks. I have seen first hand what happens when financial institutions challenges you when you made a transaction or not.

Books and magazines. Digital works nicely if you are going to travel a long distance and/or airplane travel. Put it on your tablet and relax.

On the other hand I prefer hard copy over digital. I paid for it. I want something in return that is physical in nature and the way it feels in my hands. If I do buy digital it is something I need a copy for a long business trip.

Pro of digital WD:

1) No trees killed
2) No ink wasted
3) No plastic bags used
4) When you reach age 13 all you have to do is click the delete button.

Paper always for me.

I personally don't buy anything I can't physically hold unless there is literally no alternative.

I have also noticed the lack of content in comparison to the paper copy. Although to be honest the only reason I still have a WD subscription anymore is for earlier Games Day tickets.

Although I must admit I have been enjoying them a lot more since the format change, it's a little less of a catalogue now

Mongoose says their sales went up when Signs and Portents went digital. I believe it. Only one store I knew carried it. I didn't even know about it when it was in print

I only read S&P for SST anyway, and when that went belly up, I stopped reading.

--Chris
www.chrisvalera.com