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 Grugknuckle wrote:

darrkespur wrote:
I'm really liking the iron priest on a thunderwolf with 3-4 cyberwolves for 140-155 at the moment, it's a nice complement to thunderwolves. I am playing a tournament with comp for repeated units though, so it's more of a necessity to me. I echo the pod. two fenrisian wolves seems like a good use of the 20pts, makes that thunderwolf squad a bit more dependable.

I've been thinking about the Iron Priest + Thunderwolf to go with my "Land Raider & TWC" list. Even without the thunderwolf, he can walk behind the LR and keep giving it hull points!

My 1750 list has a land raider, iron priest and thunderwolves. A land raider is an amazing force multiplier for Twolves as it gives you mobile cover for them, and the Iron Priest helps keep it in the game (although my LR suffered melta death early on last time out...)

I think the most I will do is drop one melta guna and give him saga of the beast slayer or wolf tooth necklace. But aside from that this list has basically everything that I need, objectives will be tricky with my whole force being in my opponents face turn 1 and 2 but I suppose tabling will be the goal.

You can't count on tabling in a tournament.

For example, let's say you play against Necrons. Maybe you wipe out his side of the board, but Scythes are gonna drop Troops on Objectives on the far side of the board.

I'm not saying you can't do well in a TAC environment, but certain lists are going to auto win against you.

anonymou5 wrote:

I'm not saying you can't do well in a TAC environment, but certain lists are going to auto win against you.

To be fair, as soon as you choose assault as your main offensive capabilities this is always going to be true.

It can be mitigated somewhat by placing objectives close to your enemy's DZ, but assault armies are weak. However, I'd say SW have potential to field some of the stronger assault lists.

 Griddlelol wrote:

anonymou5 wrote:

I'm not saying you can't do well in a TAC environment, but certain lists are going to auto win against you.

To be fair, as soon as you choose assault as your main offensive capabilities this is always going to be true.

It can be mitigated somewhat by placing objectives close to your enemy's DZ, but assault armies are weak. However, I'd say SW have potential to field some of the stronger assault lists.

Well there are some Assault Lists that can still maintain a board presence, any of the DE/Eldar cheese lists for example, because they can throw in Guardian jetbikes. Or a Wraithstar with NS support.

I've not encountered the DE/Eldar yet (no one in England plays Eldar apparently), but Wraith wing is certinaly a difficult list to deal with. However I find guard don't worry about it so much: high volume, low strength shots seem to be their weakness. Also throw away units help too.

Eh I figured a very in your face type of list would do pretty good, tabling would be hard but if I can hold most of the objectives I think I will be good and my spaces wolves are set up to do pretty good as I see it. I mean with a list like this I just gotta hope that I can pick the right targets to take down.

Nothing works every time. This list will clearly be fun, and I think it'll hit hard much of the time. That's the point IMO.

Yea it will be fine to have the wolf guard running around beating peoples faces in. I do wish I had a rune priest when I think about it though.

For the cost of your fully decked out Wolf Lord, you almost have Logan. Then you could buy a drop pod for one of the long fangs, arm it with MM and add to your alpha strike fun.

Rather than combi-plasma, i think I would rather have combi-meltas on your drop podding termies. With two units of wolf cav, they are only going to have to last one turn.

Rather than Arjac, can you fit in a Rune Priest? Not so much for the spells but his rune staff.

My WIP list hasn't yet gotten effective in my lower point matches, but I can testify that the one unit used in every game that has consistently done the most damage was my RP. LL can be nasty, and it wounds 9/10 times. Jaws is neat, but I've never used it, and the other RP powers are nice. I've not used any of the BRB powers with him but Biomancy is nasty, and if you pair him up with your LF, Divination should cause problems for your opponent.

I've been thinking of trying a Wolf Priest, but I would most likely trade out my Wolf Lord for him rather than my Rune Priest. Never leave home without him.

That wouldnt be a bad trade off, instead of a 5th termie in the pod put a rune priest, I justt dont think theres truly anywhere to put the remaining points. The more I look at the list the more I need to have the 4 troops and everything else is basically at its minimum points to seem effective.

If there was a way to get rune priests in the list I would obviously drop the Lord, but where do I then fit the rune priest in at?

 tankboy145 wrote:
That wouldnt be a bad trade off, instead of a 5th termie in the pod put a rune priest, I justt dont think theres truly anywhere to put the remaining points. The more I look at the list the more I need to have the 4 troops and everything else is basically at its minimum points to seem effective.

If there was a way to get rune priests in the list I would obviously drop the Lord, but where do I then fit the rune priest in at?

Drop a GH squad down to 7 or 8, put him with them, and give them a wolf guard (who eats challenges for the RP). Trust me, when you face Nids or DE/Eldar (both of whom are doing very well on the tourney scene right now), you will wish you had a RP.

Thats my biggest concern is eldar. One of the players at our local store runs eldar and my rune priest allied for my Guard has been a big help, and a friend plays nids and he also helps be his powers as well.

In a list like this what powers would be best? LL/JOTWW? Im not familiar with space wolves powers as I normally run divination. Ive heard a lot of people prefer LL but isnt it only ap5? Indeed it has unlimited sight but doesnt seem to effective neither does JOTWW as most people will just pass on a 1-4 (I generally play against chaos marines). Thanks for the help, im not big with psychers either as I normally play guard so I just shoot...shoot a lot lol

 tankboy145 wrote:
Thats my biggest concern is eldar. One of the players at our local store runs eldar and my rune priest allied for my Guard has been a big help, and a friend plays nids and he also helps be his powers as well.

In a list like this what powers would be best? LL/JOTWW? Im not familiar with space wolves powers as I normally run divination. Ive heard a lot of people prefer LL but isnt it only ap5? Indeed it has unlimited sight but doesnt seem to effective neither does JOTWW as most people will just pass on a 1-4 (I generally play against chaos marines). Thanks for the help, im not big with psychers either as I normally play guard so I just shoot...shoot a lot lol

It's situational. You choose powers at deployment, so you can cater to the matchup. Now, I run two RPs, lol, so I normally run one with Div and one with codex.

The value to LL isn't it's AP (obviously), it's that it's S7 with unlimited range. It absolutely annihlates Dark Eldar vehicles, for example. And with a chooser it's almost a guranteed hit, and at str7 almost a guranteed wound, so it's not bad at whittling down squads at range.

JoTWW is amazing, but again, it's situational. It's absolutely brutal against Orks and Necrons. But even against high I units it has value, remember it hits everyone in a line. Someone is rolling a 5 or a 6. Also, it's the easiest way to kill a Nid MC in the entire game. I killed Belial with it recently (unlikely, but worth it), and my opponent almost killed me.

Some of the other codex powers have value too. Free cover and a free way to slow down your opponent.

You could do as suggested and stick him with your GH. That's where I put him. I keep him in the back, and haven't had to worry about challenges yet but the WG is a good idea.

LL has never never failed to produce wounds in a game for me. I love it. He can also sit back with one of your LF units with Divination.

Against Eldar and Tyranids, I can't imagine not having him. He's needed for his Pyskic denial abilities if nothing else. An Eldar opponent I went up against didn't take Runes of Warding (thankfully). One LL attack took out a third of one of his units. Roll a 6 and you get focused fire. Zap that Farseer.

JotWW is mentioned a lot but I think it's use is more limited. As far as codex powers go, Murderous Hurricane is great, It'd slow down mobile armies like Tyranids a bit. I don't know how effective Fury of the Wolf Spirits is, but it's cool.

What if I threw Njal in the pod instead of the cyclone termie? He could use 2 powers iirc and he denies powers on a 3+. Obviously hes more points but it wouldnt lower the model count in my hunter squads and improves psycher defence and allows me to use more powers. Not to mention I will be able to use the tempest powers right in my opponents face when he comes down.

I don't think Njal is really worth the points. He has access to special powers, but you can make an equivalent RP more cheaply. Others may disagree.

Njal is worth his points if played correctly (after his performance at Nova and Adepticon it's impossible to say he's not worth it anymore), but he is extremely difficult to use right.

If you are bringing him in a drop pod, bring him turn 2.

I don't like Nijal, but that's because he's fairly hard to use. He doesn't tend to fit in many list styles and needs to press forward.
I'll give him a go at some point, 3+ to stop powers would really screw 'nids over.

The biggest concern I have for rune priest is that they do not have any invuln save, then again neither does Njal.

Another possibility I have is to make one TWC squad have x5 TWC. Then drop the Cyclone termie. Now I have points for a rune priest with Rune priest and a Chooser and still have like 60-70pts left possibly add termie armor. Or I could drop 1 whole squad of TWC and the Cyclone termie and throw Njal and have points to give him termie armor.

Both of these options will add great psycher defense while being right in my opponents face.

The only reason Im considering him myself is because I could throw him forward, add him to the termie squad and be right in my opponents face turn 1 or even 2.

The RP doesn't need an invulnerable save, he has a 2+ LOS! and Nijal has 5++ from TDA along with a 2+ LOS!

I wouldn't use him personally; he is hard to get right. If you're not getting the most out of everything he can provide, then he's not worth 270pts (or however much he costs with TDA). A RP with Master of Runes, or two RPs would probably be a better option - remember you're not restricted to 2 HQ choices as SW.

I would certainly use a RP in TDA, or Runic armor. Runic gives a good armor save, even if it isn't an invul.

The last thing I upgrade on my list is my RP's armor. He's not going to be alone, 2+ LOS is just as good as armor, for 20 pts less.

So heres what Im thinking. Drop the cyclone termie, drop the second TWC squad. Put a rune priest with TDA and master of the runes in the cyclone termies place in the pod. Then with remaining points add two more TWC models to the first squad so that the squad now has 5 TWC models. Now I have 8 points left, any suggestions?

My concern with that is his length of survival. That squad of Terminators is dangerous, but still somewhat of a suicide squad. If you do use him that way, I don't know how much use you'll get out of MoR. He'll hit hard with it, depending on the powers, while he is alive at least.

With the two other HQ choices, I doubt his loss will be very detrimental but I'd keep him back a little, even with TDA. Now if you put them in a LR, that would be different I suppose.

Maybe someone can weigh in on the efficacy of a four man Terminator squad. I have my doubts, but then again they'd have the RP with them so I suppose it's a moot point. Two TWC units would be nasty, but so will a 5 man squad with your Wolf Lord!

Remember my opponent is going to have to make major decisions during deployment? Bunch up or spread out. If he bunches up I can just use JOTWW like crazy and drop units all over. With master of the runes I get a 3rd power right and can cast 2 a turn? Sorry for that question, ive been trying to learn as much about psykers as I can but as Ive never really used them they confuse me a little bit.

Also does my opponent get any cover saves from JOTWW?

When I cast that and say it hits 3 guys in one squad and 5 guys in the other squad. Does the whole squad try to deny the witch or does each individual model roll to deny the witch?

Also back to if my opponent spreads out then I will be able to strike at weak points and focus more power in areas that I see too so then I would be able to cut out parts of his army that will just corner and trap him.

Master of Runes allows you to use two powers per turn, turning you into a 2nd Level Psyker like Njal. You still only choose two powers.

Looking again at Njal, he has some cool bennies, but I wouldn't take him except for fun. Wish my RP's CotS could attack. It's a Fenrisian Wolf.

For JOTWW, they don't get an armor save, but have to make an Initiative check. If they pass, they're fine. Works well with MC and such. It may work well, many people use it as a staple.

Murderous Hurricane may be an option if you're going against something with decent Initiative. 3D6 S3 hits within 18", the unit then treats all terrain, even open, as both difficult AND dangerous terrain in their next turn. It'll do some damage, and slow them down with potential to do more damage in their movement phase, keeping a little distance between you. Great especially after softening them up with LL.

With JOTWW or any beam power, the first unit makes the Deny the Witch roll and that's it. If he fails, all units in the line of fire are effected and do not make successive Deny the Witch rolls. They better hope they make the Initiative check!

Okay that clarifies some things up a bit. So basically I fire the beam and hits 3 squads, the first squad makes the deny the witch and if they fail it then everyone else is hit. Sounds good to me. Just check the FAQ and its pretty clear to me now of how it works. No cover saves allowed and can go through terrain.

Also in the FAQ it says that the beam can target specific units in a squad, say one is a character are they able to LoS that beam shot or no?

No, because LoS is to avoid wounds, JOTWW doesn't cause wounds.