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Asmodai Asmodean wrote:
I am aware noosphere is a real word, but it's not a good one or a very 40k-ish one, and I said so in the above post.

Having three cities on a PLANET is pretty absurd... it's like if Earth only had three cities, and the rest was just wilderness. Considering the amount of effort going into Terraforming, it's colonisation fail.

We're talking about hive cities. They can be the size of continents.

"Just" three hive cities can hold the current population of Earth, by many mentions in the fluff. Look at Mega-cites in Judge Dread.

 AegisGrimm wrote:
Look at Mega-cites in Judge Dread.

That's how I usually picture (among other various sci-fi settings/depictions, of course) a "normal" or "average" city, for a "normal" or "average" Imperial world. A Hive city, and by extension a Hive world, I always imagined as a Mega-city x10, like... a city but the size of, say... the UK.

Even Hive Primus on Necromuda is 10 miles across at the base, and 10 miles tall.

A Hive city, and by extension a Hive world, I always imagined as a Mega-city x10, like... a city but the size of, say... the UK.

In "Dredd", Mega City one has 800 million people making just that one city containing nearly three times the population of the continental US.

 AegisGrimm wrote:
In "Dredd", Mega City one has 800 million people making just that one city containing nearly three times the population of the continental US.

Yeah, but most of those people live spread out with plenty (by Dredd and 40K standards) of room. I also imagine, in addition to being the size of a large Earth island, that a hive city would be incredibly dense, even by sci-fi depictions such as Dredd et al - and certainly by our own, real world - standards. Continental US has a much lower population density than Europe or Asia. Take somewhere like Tokyo or Mumbai... now extrapolate that level of density to the size of an island like the UK, and you start to get a proper picture of my "mega-city x10" idea.

When I read of hive cities, I immediately think of Courascant in Star Wars; cities, quite literally, kilometers deep. Not tall. Deep.

 TermiesInARaider wrote:
When I read of hive cities, I immediately think of Courascant in Star Wars; cities, quite literally, kilometers deep. Not tall. Deep.

Yeah, and like New York City in The Fifth Element.

Asmodai Asmodean wrote:Only issues I had with it were 'noosphere', it's just such an un-40k word. It's a pretty stupid word, in general.

That and one legion of titans taking out three times their number. Maybe Invictus just rocks.

Also, Sci-fi writers have no sense of scale; Orestes is a Forge World, but it has a totality of three hive cities, only one of which makes things. What?

Noosphere predates Titanicus in 40k by quite a bit though. It's basically just the AdMech's take on short-range wireless communications and HUD.

Remember that Armageddon is also a Forge World, and a Hive World at the same time, too. And the majority of that planet is barren desert or polar ice, or covered in water or jungle. Numbers-wise, there are not many hive cities on Armageddon. They are quite spread out.

 TermiesInARaider wrote:
When I read of hive cities, I immediately think of Courascant in Star Wars; cities, quite literally, kilometers deep. Not tall. Deep.

From various maps of hive worlds from Dark Heresy and Necromunda, most hive worlds aren't completely covered in cities. They have large, monolithic, but still separate, hive cities dotted across the planet, with large expanses between them.

Armageddon has at least 8 Hive regions, with numerous sub-hive cities, which gives the impression of being actually a planet.

Orestes seemed more like a continent- granted it was new and all that, but I just didn't get the sense of Planetary distances and scale when reading the book,
and this is a problem with most 40k novels- planetary scale and continental action.

It's probably a literary device as it's difficult/complicated to involve planetary levels of conflict.

 Mr Morden wrote:
It is really good (although I think Helsreach is even better) but for me it ends a bit aprubtly without really finishing the story?

I agree with you completely, to say the ending was abrupt is putting it mildly. I felt like the author just gave up on the story or became tired of writing it. I did enjoy the book up until the ending just tailed off.

The bit about Cally's husband was not done very well, just some cheesy melodramatic tragedy that I felt was not needed.

I loved Titanicus. The stakes were very high in this one and it made it feel epic.

I never felt that Orestes was a strategically important world, you never had information pressed into you about its importance beside the fact it was a forge world, with a single remaining hive operational. the scale, however , was epic: Legion on Legion action.

I was refering to how The Emperor is not the Omnisiah and that revelation could cuase a civil war between The Imperium and Mechanicum.

The awesomeness of Titans is why GW should restore Epic as their third main product line, in place of the Hobbit.

 Fifty wrote:
The awesomeness of Titans is why GW should restore Epic as their third main product line, in place of the Hobbit.

I really don't understand why they limit their game stores to selling three types of product. If they sold Battlefleet Gothic to appeal to naval wargamers, Epic to poor/strategic wargamers, Blood Bowl to... fantasy football fans, Necromunda/Mordheim to skirmish players and the RPG books to RP'ers, they would almost double their target market overnight.

Instead, they dedicate their 'hobby stores' to a single game night and two (hobbit is dead in the water) game lines.





Automatically Appended Next Post:

 KamikazeCanuck wrote:
I was refering to how The Emperor is not the Omnisiah and that revelation could cuase a civil war between The Imperium and Mechanicum.

Ah, I see. It always seemed implicit that Mars would side with the Imperium regardless of any schism, however, if only out of sheer survival instinct.

Asmodai Asmodean wrote:

 KamikazeCanuck wrote:
I was refering to how The Emperor is not the Omnisiah and that revelation could cuase a civil war between The Imperium and Mechanicum.

Ah, I see. It always seemed implicit that Mars would side with the Imperium regardless of any schism, however, if only out of sheer survival instinct.

Not really, when you consider the history of the whole saga. Remember, most of the high-ranking Martian members of the Mechanicum priesthood went over to Horus during the Heresy, and the Omnissiah Question was a major factor in that; even in "modern" 40K, if you look at what supplemental background info on the AdMech exists, they remain split on the issue(I forget exactly, but I think three of the sub-factions mentioned in the FFG books focus on the Omissiah Question in one way or another). The AdMech are no less divided by ideology than the Inquisition, and any sufficiently revelatory information on the subject could be a tipping point.

If that was so why would ships come from Mars to expunge the evidence/straighten the record? At this point in the 41st the two are so intertwined that one cannot live without the other. Mars cannot support its fleets without the Astronomican and the Navis Nobilite, or communicate effectively without Astropaths. Also, the evidence was tainted by the fact that it was used for personal gain, and once this was revealed it completely lost its cachet.

GW really needs to re-release Adeptus Titanicus and Space Marine again.

 AegisGrimm wrote:
GW really needs to re-release Adeptus Titanicus and Space Marine again.

Yes, I was definitely thinking of finding a copy of Adeptus Titanicus after reading it...

Why does GW have such a daft specialist policy.

Asmodai Asmodean wrote:
If that was so why would ships come from Mars to expunge the evidence/straighten the record? At this point in the 41st the two are so intertwined that one cannot live without the other. Mars cannot support its fleets without the Astronomican and the Navis Nobilite, or communicate effectively without Astropaths. Also, the evidence was tainted by the fact that it was used for personal gain, and once this was revealed it completely lost its cachet.

But it's still true. It comes down to a question of whether you value your faith more or your nation. A significant scism between Mars and Terra could actually mean the end of The Imperium.

We don't know it was true. It was 'verified' by the same person who later admitted to having manipulated data to get what they wanted. There's no guarantee or certainty as to its veracity at all.

I'm really into the ad mech right now and I was wondering if there has ever been a member of the ad mech in any book or codex that actually believes the Emperor and the Omnisiah are the same guy. Because it always seems like in every book no one in the ad mech thinks that the Emperor is the real deal and it seems like more of a general consensus then just a few dissidents speaking out.

Pretty sure most people in the Admecha think The Emperor is The Omnisiah. Books tend to focus and dissidents and trouble makers.

And yet, even The Schism of mars were unable to weed out the ones who believed otherwise. I believe that in book there was a short hint that entire forges teaches that Omnissiah is not the Emperor. It looks like that adeptus mechanicus is destined to be split on this question.

In book end, there was a fat hint that data was genuine enough to be true. Place there member of adeptus mechanicus member refused to comment on this issue at all speaks of truthiness of data. The fleet of adeptus mechanicus there on rout only to formally deny this as damage control, remove data from public eye and ensure that right people stand in power. You simply cannot delete something that was broadcasted on entire planet's scale. Even more, now this data is widespread among galaxy, making it easily accessed.

Asmodai Asmodean wrote:
Having three cities on a PLANET is pretty absurd... it's like if Earth only had three cities, and the rest was just wilderness. Considering the amount of effort going into Terraforming, it's colonisation fail.

Well, it's not like a Hive is like New York or something. A Hive would contain, for example, the current population of Earth, and is absolutely gigantic.

That was a great book. I thought the thing with the woman in the PDF and her husband ended stupidly, just kinda "hey, here's a downer kids" but other than that it was great.

I also wish that Abnett had expanded on the former Princepts, or Moderati or whatever he was, the one that was brain damaged from feedback during a previous conflict.

Priests of Mars felt like a great spiritual successor to Titanicus, I can't want for the next book in that series. I was amazed at how well it expanded on the scale and interrelatedness of the facets of the Imperium.

I like the book, especially the guys riding around in a centaur (or was it a trojan?). However, the cover really spoilt it for me:



Why are there marines? I kept expecting marines to show up at some point, yet there isn't a single one in the entire book. Not that I missed them, it is just odd to have them on the cover.

Ernestas wrote:
And yet, even The Schism of mars were unable to weed out the ones who believed otherwise. I believe that in book there was a short hint that entire forges teaches that Omnissiah is not the Emperor. It looks like that adeptus mechanicus is destined to be split on this question.

In book end, there was a fat hint that data was genuine enough to be true. Place there member of adeptus mechanicus member refused to comment on this issue at all speaks of truthiness of data. The fleet of adeptus mechanicus there on rout only to formally deny this as damage control, remove data from public eye and ensure that right people stand in power. You simply cannot delete something that was broadcasted on entire planet's scale. Even more, now this data is widespread among galaxy, making it easily accessed.

For sure. By "most" I don't mean some huge overwhelming majority like 99%. But it is probably like 75%.