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 Ouze wrote:
Yeah, I went the patience route and it got all stabby.

What's your gear setup, if I can ask?

Oh, also, as far as Slate goes:

Are you supposed to eventually be able to ally with either Comstock or Vox Populi? If so, and for the choice to be at all meaningful, I can't wait to see what kind of nastiness Vox gets up to because Father Comstock is about as unsavory as I can imagine.

 Alfndrate wrote:

 Ouze wrote:
Yeah, I went the patience route and it got all stabby.

What's your gear setup, if I can ask?

I'm not sure how to see it once equipped, if you can tell me that? I have a hazy recollection of what I picked up but not good enough to type up.

 Ouze wrote:

 Alfndrate wrote:

 Ouze wrote:
Yeah, I went the patience route and it got all stabby.

What's your gear setup, if I can ask?

I'm not sure how to see it once equipped, if you can tell me that? I have a hazy recollection of what I picked up but not good enough to type up.

It's going to be kind of hard to translate this without the game in front of me, and since you're on the PC and I'm on the 360... You bring up the menu (not the pause menu), and it should be the second or third tab. It'll have all of your gear listed, and you can assign it there too...


Also I just read a spoiler I didn't want to look up :-\...

Oh, I got it. I checked keybindings. It's "o".

I have:



Also - if it were me with the spoiler, sorry about that :/



Automatically Appended Next Post:
Also, a question regarding the Vox:

 Ouze wrote:
Oh, I got it. I checked keybindings. It's "o".

I have:

Spoiler:

Burning Halo hat: sets people I melee on fire
Scavenger's vest - when I kill people they drop ammo 40% of the time
Head Master pants - 50% more criticals
Nothing in the middle slot.

Also - if it were me with the spoiler, sorry about that :/

Hrm... I'll check what I've got tonight when I get home, but that looks like a decent setup... I'll also post the "classes" the guidebook has, as they might be something people want to go for. And no, you didn't spoil the game for me... I looked up something about Father Comstock and scrolled too far down the Bioshock Wiki past their large spoiler warning >_< I only have myself to blame.

Also, a question regarding the Vox:

Spoiler:

Do you guys know where to find the codebook for the vox wall scribbling?

I can check the guide when I get home.

Tangentially: Did either of you get a collector's edition? It came with a Handy Man miniature from the upcoming (and rather mysterious) Bioshock Infinite board game from Plaid Hat Games. The miniature is only about a half inch tall -- considering how large a Handyman is in-game, that's about 6-7mm scale? Yikes!

 Manchu wrote:
Tangentially: Did either of you get a collector's edition? It came with a Handy Man miniature from the upcoming (and rather mysterious) Bioshock Infinite board game from Plaid Hat Games. The miniature is only about a half inch tall -- considering how large a Handyman is in-game, that's about 6-7mm scale? Yikes!

I didn't, though with the amount that I traded in to get the game, the season pass and the guide, I could have splurged and still come out at about retail for just the game...

No on the collectors edition - regardless of how A:CM turned out I almost never go in for those. The only CE I really remember buying was for Mass Effect 3.

I wanted Song Bird.

Is it possible to be stealthy in this game? I'm currently murdering every cultist bastard I see, and the radio hates me for it.

It's hard to imagine not killing them. This game is going to be tough for committed racists.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Lo and behold:

http://kotaku.com/5968336/the-jew-ken-levine-is-making-a-white+person-killing-simulator

http://www.gameskinny.com/o7im6/bioshock-infinite-gives-racists-something-to-hate

Haha oh god, I can't wait until Yahtzee reviews that, just because he's usually the reviewer that mentions how racist games can unintentionally be.

For those not currently playing Bioshock Infinite, this is an early scene in the game:So yeah, this game isn't pulling punches.

 Manchu wrote:
For those not currently playing Bioshock Infinite, this is an early scene in the game:

Spoiler:

There is a big carnival going on and as part of that there is a raffle. When you get to the raffle, there's a woman with a basket full of baseballs with numbers on them. You take one and then a man on a stage in front of you draws a number -- which turns out to be the one of your baseball. So what's your prize? On stage, some hokey music starts playing and some plywood scenery pops up with cartoonish depictions of black people as monkeys. Then a white man and black woman, bound and tied side by side, pop up and the man on stage makes it clear with some racist language that you are supposed to throw your baseball at them unless" you take your coffee black." So we've got a lynch-themed stoning using baseballs -- i.e., an iconic American artifact -- as the instrument of torture/murder.

So yeah, this game isn't pulling punches.

Yeah, that scene was harsh. I was about to brain that top hatted git, before those cops got me.

What happens if you throw it at the couple though?

According to Alfndrate, it turns out the same.

I was just thinking to myself, for how many people is this even a choice?

I was going to mention the people from Stormfront, but for them it doesn't appear to be much of a choice either. For entirely different reasons.

Yeah, apparently what happens is that no matter what, as you raise your hand to throw the ball the cop notices your hand.

The results of your choices apparently happens later down the road. The couple gives you some gear (a pair of pants I believe) for not braining them with a baseball.


Also I completely understand what Ouze means by the appaling racism of Booker Dewitt... But that's a decently big spoiler.

Edit: I wish my lunch break was longer so I could play it

Just finished it. 11 hours on hard with lots of backtracking. Wish I knew the 1999 mode was available from the start.

Checkpoints are dreadful, but that's a function of checkpoints in general. I'm playing this game on a PC for God's sake, give me a save function.

Weapons handling is okay-ish. The guns feel a little weak, especially towards the end. Pretty much everything can be solved with Bronco + shotgun/repeater, except the bosses.

Disappointed in the handling of the social commentary. Mostly because there isn't any.

Characters were decent. It's hard to not like Elisabeth and Booker, but they're not the deepest of ponds, so to speak. There's also a rather abrupt change in character for Elisabeth. It's explained, but jarring.

Story is as good as the ending and the ending is a

Still, the game has incredible atmosphere and fabulous art design. That wipes away a lot of the grime I've smeared all over it above.

Yeah, the game's visual design alone makes me want to get it even if it turns out to be mediocre. I'm kind of getting tired of bland and boring games like the battlefield and call of duties series'.

Well, been playing for ~1,5h and so far I'm disappointed.
This is a Bioshock game all right, but that is not a compliment, because I did play the same game twice already.

a) Refined game play mechanic. Weapons handle very similarly, we have plasmids, similar management of health / mana / inventory. OK, shield instead of health packs.
b) So far painfully linear.
d) Story, well can't say much as I hope there will be something impressive down the road.
Still, does that sound familiar?
High-tech ~50 years ago.
Audio logs.
Hordes of brainwashed minions, arch-enemy megalomaniac lurking as a main threat, who decides to separate the city from USA by going underwater, whoops, going airborne.
Every X steps expect propaganda announcements.
Even the tutorials movies feel the same.

96 on metacritic? All time fifth? Shame on you reviewers!

Seriously, you only like completely novel games? You must hate pretty much everything.

 Macok wrote:
snip!

There are some interesting twists...

And remember, Bioshock games are to show a society when 1 ruling factor of civilization are taken to the extreme. Bioshock 1 was about the genius of the individual, Bioshock 2 is about the collective effort and the power of the community. Bioshock Infinite is about the ideas of Ultra-Nationalism, with special regards to the whole, "'MURICA!" mentality....

I think the right word, rather than nationalism, is exceptionalism.

 Manchu wrote:
I think the right word, rather than nationalism, is exceptionalism.

Just pulling from the BioShock wiki, but yes I would agree with exceptionalism.

Yeah, I agree that 96 is a bit much. Its more deserving of a 80-85.

If you actually had choices, if the game weren't as linear, and if the Comstock faction were more sympathetic, then maybe it would be more deserving of the 90+ mark

Seriously, why would you side with those KKK-esque fascists? If there were no choice, that would have been fine. But as there is a choice, there must be some reason to join them. Yeah, I know its a stretch, but if FO3 can do it in the pitt DLC, than so could have this game.

Then again, I can be ridiculously critical.

Still, I have to give them props for not pulling any punches on the portrayal of the bad guys.

How do you make overt racists sympathetic?

I also had this problem with Skyrim, where choice was actually important unlike here, because the Stormcloaks were unabashed racists and all their "fatherland" talk did not engage my sympathy. Bethesda threw them a bone by portraying the Thalmor as the Gestapo and having Talos-worship banned. But, at least to me, the real reason Stormcloaks liked Talos-worship is because of their larger "Skyrim for the Nords" policy. For me at least, joining the Stormcloaks is only a possibility if the Empire is something worse than racist.

Same thing applies here. Vox has got to be worse than racist. I haven't met them in my playthrough yet, however.

 Alfndrate wrote:
And remember, Bioshock games are to show a society when 1 ruling factor of civilization are taken to the extreme. Bioshock 1 was about the genius of the individual, Bioshock 2 is about the collective effort and the power of the community. Bioshock Infinite is about the ideas of Ultra-Nationalism, with special regards to the whole, "'MURICA!" mentality....

Even if you'd go with exceptionalism, instead of nationalism, it's still pretty obvious that Infinite fails to comment on the subject the way the previous games did. Both meritocracy and collectivism are socially neutral concepts that can be used for both good and wrong.

Social and racial supremacy does not. For a game obsessed with the duality of events and concepts, Infinity fails the show the tails (or heads) of Columbia, because there is none to be found. It's a slideshow of grade A filth with nothing to balance it.

 Manchu wrote:
How do you make overt racists sympathetic?

\\

Ai, that's the problem. The main issue is giving you the choice to side with them in the first place.

If there's no reason to join them (ie, they are all asshats), then why add the choice?

Bioshock as a series always had this problem with morality issues. Its usually "Gar, you are evil!" or "You are not evil."


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 His Master's Voice wrote:

 Alfndrate wrote:
And remember, Bioshock games are to show a society when 1 ruling factor of civilization are taken to the extreme. Bioshock 1 was about the genius of the individual, Bioshock 2 is about the collective effort and the power of the community. Bioshock Infinite is about the ideas of Ultra-Nationalism, with special regards to the whole, "'MURICA!" mentality....

Social and racial supremacy does not. For a game obsessed with the duality of events and concepts, Infinity fails the show the tails (or heads) of Columbia, because there is none to be found. It's a slideshow of grade A filth with nothing to balance it.

Funny thing, that was actually pointed out in the game itself. You have to flip a coin at some point for these two characters, and according to the readings that they have, tails never comes up. There's always one option.