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We've been modifying the genetics of food since before we knew what 'genetics' were. Now we just use science to shorten the process of trial and error.

This is a non-issue (well, not so much the sneaking it in with another unrelated bill - that gak's gotta stop! - but GM food in general).

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
This is a non-issue (well, not so much the sneaking it in with another unrelated bill - that gak's gotta stop! - but GM food in general).

That was the point of the thread, not to be anti-GM food.

Fair enough.

In all fairness I realize the frankenveggies in the title could be taken as an insult, though it was meant to be more silly than anything. So it isn't unreasonable to think it was an attack on GM, and then some of the posts were about that as well, furthering the tangent. My original intent was to bring to light the way it was slipped into the bill.

Yeah I initially didn't comment because I was annoyed at "frankenveggies". Monsanto are about as bad as you can get as a corporation. Their corporate philosophy is to control the fundamentals needed for human survival to turn a profit. That leads to some pretty scummy practices that are nasty in a way that many other companies can't match, just due to the nature of their business.

GM is a complex issue and many people do not understand the science behind it adequately to participate in any debate about it. However that does not mean there should be no debate, merely improved education. If that education takes a decade to permeate to the point where we can have a sensible debate, well, so be it. Better than people either reacting negatively or positively without any clear basis.

Monsanto does do some rather dubious things, but no more than any other company.

They're trying to protect their product, which just so happens to be fairly difficult to do due to the nature of the beast. And can lead to some silly lawsuits that were caused by cross pollination. Which is really what they have to do to protect their product, they have to overreact to catch all the loose ends. Its not like an electronic product where you can have relativly hard barriers to protect your IP.


Ultimately, there is not solid evidence that GMO plants are harmful and till there is its silly to prevent their use.

While I'm not an expert on this, I would blame the increase in food allergies on increased exposure to chemicals before blaming the food. And GMOs can reduce the level of chemicals in the food, so win win?

Monsanto is just a conveniant scapegoat thats gets pointed to too much.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Da Boss wrote:
Yeah I initially didn't comment because I was annoyed at "frankenveggies". Monsanto are about as bad as you can get as a corporation. Their corporate philosophy is to control the fundamentals needed for human survival to turn a profit. That leads to some pretty scummy practices that are nasty in a way that many other companies can't match, just due to the nature of their business.

GM is a complex issue and many people do not understand the science behind it adequately to participate in any debate about it. However that does not mean there should be no debate, merely improved education. If that education takes a decade to permeate to the point where we can have a sensible debate, well, so be it. Better than people either reacting negatively or positively without any clear basis.

You can always move to the country and grow your own food.

Thats the price you pay for putting your food supply in other people's hands. By choosing to live in an area where you are not in control of your food you have already agreed to the system. You are free to leave if you wish.


And the food that is produced as a result of this is much cheaper than any alternatives. Its not like people are being held hostage by high food prices.

Organic and "Naturally grown" food can be anywhere from 3 to 10 times the price of the commercial version. And with often very little nutritional difference, certaintly not what the price would tell you.

Grey Templar wrote:Monsanto does do some rather dubious things, but no more than any other company.

They're trying to protect their product, which just so happens to be fairly difficult to do due to the nature of the beast. And can lead to some silly lawsuits that were caused by cross pollination. Which is really what they have to do to protect their product, they have to overreact to catch all the loose ends. Its not like an electronic product where you can have relativly hard barriers to protect your IP.


Ultimately, there is not solid evidence that GMO plants are harmful and till there is its silly to prevent their use.

Translation: "because I obviously haven't thought about this, I think it's a good idea to let the general population be the lab rats!"

Translation with hyperbole: "sure, a company may have no idea what this new medication will do, but they're gonna say it cures cancer, and after enough people take it, I guess we'll find out if they're right. Nothing wrong with that, nope nope. Huh, looks like I'm turning inside out. Hmm... maybe if this happens to enough people, that horrific drug will be taken off the market because it'll have finally been proven to be harmful. Oh well, too late for me!"

EDIT: Seriously, can we please drop the "evil actions aren't any more evil than other evil actions, so they're okay" line? I see it trotted out by the same authority-worshippers every damned thread. It's never okay and it's proven to always be a horrendously flawed argument. The worst part about it in this instance, is that yeah, GT, Monsanto actually does do more dubious things than most other companies. Do even the smallest bit of research and this will become apparent.

 azazel the cat wrote:

Grey Templar wrote:Monsanto does do some rather dubious things, but no more than any other company.

They're trying to protect their product, which just so happens to be fairly difficult to do due to the nature of the beast. And can lead to some silly lawsuits that were caused by cross pollination. Which is really what they have to do to protect their product, they have to overreact to catch all the loose ends. Its not like an electronic product where you can have relativly hard barriers to protect your IP.


Ultimately, there is not solid evidence that GMO plants are harmful and till there is its silly to prevent their use.

Translation: "because I obviously haven't thought about this, I think it's a good idea to let the general population be the lab rats!"

Translation with hyperbole: "sure, a company may have no idea what this new medication will do, but they're gonna say it cures cancer, and after enough people take it, I guess we'll find out if they're right. Nothing wrong with that, nope nope. Huh, looks like I'm turning inside out. Hmm... maybe if this happens to enough people, that horrific drug will be taken off the market because it'll have finally been proven to be harmful. Oh well, too late for me!"

EDIT: Seriously, can we please drop the "evil actions aren't any more evil than other evil actions, so they're okay" line? I see it trotted out by the same authority-worshippers every damned thread. It's never okay and it's proven to always be a horrendously flawed argument. The worst part about it in this instance, is that yeah, GT, Monsanto actually does do more dubious things than most other companies. Do even the smallest bit of research and this will become apparent.

Let the hate flooow my young Jedi...

ahem... 'scouse me.

FYI... Monsanto has an A+ with the BBB for years now... yeah... they're evil.

 Grey Templar wrote:
Monsanto does do some rather dubious things, but no more than any other company.

No, more so.

 Grey Templar wrote:
They're trying to protect their product, which just so happens to be fairly difficult to do due to the nature of the beast. And can lead to some silly lawsuits that were caused by cross pollination. Which is really what they have to do to protect their product, they have to overreact to catch all the loose ends.

No, they don't. "Over-reacting" is, by definition, excessive. I mean, that's what the word means.

There is a difference between reasonably defending your IP, and acting like Monster Cables. If you don't see that, I suppose there is nothing more to discuss with you, but I assure you, there is a difference, and reasonable people can see it.