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Tiarna Fuilteach wrote: There is not trick to killing abaddon, you just have to make him take saves and hope he fails them, similar to lysander. Although since they were both mentioned in the first post, one on one abaddon kills lysander every day of the week
I remember looking at an MS Exel sheet of math-hammer, and at best 1 v 1 in melee alone, Abby will win roughly 45% of the time.
But, it wasn't my work, so it could have been wrong.
It was wrong. Abbadon kills Lysander every day of the week and twice on Sundays. The problem is Lysander is just lacking attacks. Lysander has 3 swings, hitting 1.75 times each round. Abbadon is shrugging off half of those that wound. Abbadon, on the other hand is hitting Lysander with many more attacks, and even though Lysander has a better save, he just can't compete with the increased number of attacks over sustained turns.
dreamakuma wrote: I just throw Ghazzy at him on the waaagh more often than not i get the kill.
Your a lucky man, and/or play people who don't know how to run challenges.
What you want to do is intervene with a unit champion on the round after Ghaz calls his Waaagh. This chews up Ghaz's second round of near-invulnerability. Once that is done, Ghaz's chances of success drop dramatically. The only way to ensure you get the 2 rounds of 2++ is to Waaaagh on the CSM players turn if Abbadon charges Ghaz. This is because you cannot intervene on your opponents turn
To keep Abbadon alive Stick him with a squad of cultists, CSM, or plague marines. So long as you have LoS saves you can make, he will stay alive for a long time. While some things (bloodthirster) will kill him dead, they are few and far betweeen.
To kill Abbadon Challenge him with a punk. Let Abbadon spawn/DP himself.
This message was edited 4 times. Last update was at 2013/04/09 21:05:41
The Swarmlord has many notches in his carapace of Abaddon kills. As do quite a few Hive Tyrants.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2013/04/09 21:52:58
"'players must agree how they are going to select their armies, and if any restrictions apply to the number and type of models they can use."
This is an actual rule in the actual rulebook. Quit whining about how you can imagine someone's army touching you in a bad place and play by the actual rules.
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Lord Yayula wrote: Feed him cheap characters so that he changes into a spawn or DP, that always kills my abaddon. Either that or he rolls enough 1s on his daemon weapon to soften him up
1/6 chance of happening. You are taking a risk though. He could get re-roll armor saves, heal his wounds, or any number of nasty bonuses.
It is actually 1/9th, still seems to happen all the time. Well, actually now that i think of it 1/9th for each character if a good chance of him becoming a spawn after he has slayed a few guardsmen sergeants.
It should be 1/12 for spawn and 1/12 for DP. 1/6 to become not abbadon
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tbh the best way to use abbadon is to port him in with some Obliterators, and make sure you have that comms relay to reroll reserves.
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What about the Blood Angels' Sanguinor? WIth some Sanguinary Guard to get him there (or even on his own, to set up a challenge), his "curse" abilities will even the playing field a bit? Company standard with the Sanguinary Guard will also give him +1 attack.
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Lets see ways to kill fail-baddy. First and foremost shoot him. Seriously any gun and enough of em. For specifics 10 fire dragons (10 guys with meltaguns) should statistically kill him. Beyond that swarmlord would own him in melee. Otherwise see tactic 1... Any form of gun should kill devotee melee units. They are useful in melee deny them that opportunity. Run away or fly using transport, suddenly the 200+ model has nothing but a stormbolter to harm you with.
Tiarna Fuilteach wrote: There is not trick to killing abaddon, you just have to make him take saves and hope he fails them, similar to lysander. Although since they were both mentioned in the first post, one on one abaddon kills lysander every day of the week
I remember looking at an MS Exel sheet of math-hammer, and at best 1 v 1 in melee alone, Abby will win roughly 45% of the time.
But, it wasn't my work, so it could have been wrong.
Was it the new Abby? Hatred, PE, more attacks, and striking first would lead me to believe he would kick Lysander most of the time. A 3++ is nice, but it isnt that much better than abby's 4++.
Probably the old one.
Thinking about it, the points reduction, PE etc would help pummel Lysander quite nicely
Especially with a unit of terminators with VotLW and some Ap2 melee weapons
Scyrell wrote: Lets see ways to kill fail-baddy. First and foremost shoot him. Seriously any gun and enough of em. For specifics 10 fire dragons (10 guys with meltaguns) should statistically kill him. Beyond that swarmlord would own him in melee. Otherwise see tactic 1... Any form of gun should kill devotee melee units. They are useful in melee deny them that opportunity. Run away or fly using transport, suddenly the 200+ model has nothing but a stormbolter to harm you with.
The problem is Abbadon is an IC, and can join a unit. Your shooting the unit hes with, and not himself.
The swarmlord, on the other hand, can be picked out without a problem.
Scyrell wrote: Lets see ways to kill fail-baddy. First and foremost shoot him. Seriously any gun and enough of em. For specifics 10 fire dragons (10 guys with meltaguns) should statistically kill him. Beyond that swarmlord would own him in melee. Otherwise see tactic 1... Any form of gun should kill devotee melee units. They are useful in melee deny them that opportunity. Run away or fly using transport, suddenly the 200+ model has nothing but a stormbolter to harm you with.
The problem is Abbadon is an IC, and can join a unit. Your shooting the unit hes with, and not himself.
The swarmlord, on the other hand, can be picked out without a problem.
Mmm.. Imagine trying to fight off a 20-marine-strong unit that has been buffed by Abby's "Black Crusader", marks and icons of chaos, and possibly VotLW.
With a side order of buffed champions, a possible Dark Apostle, and special weapons...
Selym wrote: Mmm.. Imagine trying to fight off a 20-marine-strong unit that has been buffed by Abby's "Black Crusader", marks and icons of chaos, and possibly VotLW.
With a side order of buffed champions, a possible Dark Apostle, and special weapons...
Its been my experience that Abbadon is best when used as a "counter-assault" unit. I call him 'Old man Abbadon' because he shouts "Get off my lawn!" when enemy units get close to my CSM.
Abbadon's black crusader buff is money if your playing loyalist MEQ. I've been finding less of those on the table, so its been less of an appeal.
Selym wrote: Mmm.. Imagine trying to fight off a 20-marine-strong unit that has been buffed by Abby's "Black Crusader", marks and icons of chaos, and possibly VotLW.
With a side order of buffed champions, a possible Dark Apostle, and special weapons...
Its been my experience that Abbadon is best when used as a "counter-assault" unit. I call him 'Old man Abbadon' because he shouts "Get off my lawn!" when enemy units get close to my CSM.
Abbadon's black crusader buff is money if your playing loyalist MEQ. I've been finding less of those on the table, so its been less of an appeal.
Yeah, them Spess Muhreens are starting to run scared now Still, I've got a lot of harcore marine players, and MEQ spammers where I am, so my army will be laughing every time it sees combat
Scyrell wrote: Lets see ways to kill fail-baddy. First and foremost shoot him. Seriously any gun and enough of em. For specifics 10 fire dragons (10 guys with meltaguns) should statistically kill him. Beyond that swarmlord would own him in melee. Otherwise see tactic 1... Any form of gun should kill devotee melee units. They are useful in melee deny them that opportunity. Run away or fly using transport, suddenly the 200+ model has nothing but a stormbolter to harm you with.
The problem is Abbadon is an IC, and can join a unit. Your shooting the unit hes with, and not himself.
The swarmlord, on the other hand, can be picked out without a problem.
If the Swarmlord is in a unit, which he can be, he can't be picked out any easier than Abaddon in a unit.
"'players must agree how they are going to select their armies, and if any restrictions apply to the number and type of models they can use."
This is an actual rule in the actual rulebook. Quit whining about how you can imagine someone's army touching you in a bad place and play by the actual rules.
Freelance Ontologist
When people ask, "What's the point in understanding everything?" they've just disqualified themselves from using questions and should disappear in a puff of paradox. But they don't understand and just continue existing, which are also their only two strategies for life.
Lord Yayula wrote: Feed him cheap characters so that he changes into a spawn or DP, that always kills my abaddon. Either that or he rolls enough 1s on his daemon weapon to soften him up
1/6 chance of happening. You are taking a risk though. He could get re-roll armor saves, heal his wounds, or any number of nasty bonuses.
It is actually 1/9th, still seems to happen all the time. Well, actually now that i think of it 1/9th for each character if a good chance of him becoming a spawn after he has slayed a few guardsmen sergeants.
It should be 1/12 for spawn and 1/12 for DP. 1/6 to become not abbadon
There are 36 combinations that can come out of the dice (6x6), out of which 2 combinations make you a spawn (21 & 22) and 2 make you a prince (65 & 66), that is 4 out of 36, 4/36 = 2/18 = 1/9
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DarknessEternal wrote: If the Swarmlord is in a unit, which he can be, he can't be picked out any easier than Abaddon in a unit.
How many units can the swarmlord join? Can he hop in a unit of gaunts?
Abbadon can join any CSM unit in the game (that can be joined). If you pepper his unit to oblivion, he just moves onto the next.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2013/04/10 16:45:06
DarknessEternal wrote: If the Swarmlord is in a unit, which he can be, he can't be picked out any easier than Abaddon in a unit.
How many units can the swarmlord join? Can he hop in a unit of gaunts?
Abbadon can join any CSM unit in the game (that can be joined). If you pepper his unit to oblivion, he just moves onto the next.
And this can get quite ludicrous, given the number of bodies he can hide behind, and many varied forms of trickery with which to protect/enhance himself
pantheralegionnaire wrote: What about the Blood Angels' Sanguinor? WIth some Sanguinary Guard to get him there (or even on his own, to set up a challenge), his "curse" abilities will even the playing field a bit? Company standard with the Sanguinary Guard will also give him +1 attack.
Sanguinor would be chump change for Abaddon. For one, if I'm not mistaken, his sword's AP3. For another, he can't join a unit, so he could get focus-fired to death before even getting into combat with him. On top of all that, he's wounding Abaddon on a 4+ (or a 3+ with FC), whereas Abaddon's wounding him on a 2+.
pantheralegionnaire wrote: What about the Blood Angels' Sanguinor? WIth some Sanguinary Guard to get him there (or even on his own, to set up a challenge), his "curse" abilities will even the playing field a bit? Company standard with the Sanguinary Guard will also give him +1 attack.
Sanguinor would be chump change for Abaddon. For one, if I'm not mistaken, his sword's AP3. For another, he can't join a unit, so he could get focus-fired to death before even getting into combat with him. On top of all that, he's wounding Abaddon on a 4+ (or a 3+ with FC), whereas Abaddon's wounding him on a 2+.
and abby has hatred and PE, so tons of rerolls and more attacks
Lord Yayula wrote: Feed him cheap characters so that he changes into a spawn or DP, that always kills my abaddon. Either that or he rolls enough 1s on his daemon weapon to soften him up
1/6 chance of happening. You are taking a risk though. He could get re-roll armor saves, heal his wounds, or any number of nasty bonuses.
It is actually 1/9th, still seems to happen all the time. Well, actually now that i think of it 1/9th for each character if a good chance of him becoming a spawn after he has slayed a few guardsmen sergeants.
It should be 1/12 for spawn and 1/12 for DP. 1/6 to become not abbadon
There are 36 combinations that can come out of the dice (6x6), out of which 2 combinations make you a spawn (21 & 22) and 2 make you a prince (65 & 66), that is 4 out of 36, 4/36 = 2/18 = 1/9
I thought it was 2 and then 1,2,3 for spawn and 6 and then 4, 5, 6. Guess I was wrong.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2013/04/10 17:55:04
Dark Mechanicus and Renegade Iron Hand Dakka Blog
My Dark Mechanicus P&M Blog. Mostly Modeling as I paint very slowly. Lots of kitbashed conversions of marines and a few guard to make up a renegade Iron Hand chapter and Dark Mechanicus Allies. Bionics++
Wolfnid420 wrote: i think abaddin(like aladdin with a b) sounds way better than ab-a-don.....sounds more dark and less cartoony IMHO......
He's a BAD guy, with bad written in his name.....of course you pronounce the word bad when saying his name......ab-a-don sounds goofy like he gaks lollipops, rather than being sinister.....just sayin lol
You don't know where that name comes from, do you?
Scyrell wrote: Lets see ways to kill fail-baddy. First and foremost shoot him. Seriously any gun and enough of em. For specifics 10 fire dragons (10 guys with meltaguns) should statistically kill him. Beyond that swarmlord would own him in melee. Otherwise see tactic 1... Any form of gun should kill devotee melee units. They are useful in melee deny them that opportunity. Run away or fly using transport, suddenly the 200+ model has nothing but a stormbolter to harm you with.
The problem is Abbadon is an IC, and can join a unit. Your shooting the unit hes with, and not himself.
The swarmlord, on the other hand, can be picked out without a problem.
If the Swarmlord is in a unit, which he can be, he can't be picked out any easier than Abaddon in a unit.
Tyrant Guard are the only choice here, right? I don't see anywhere that would allow Swarmy to be in a unit any other way.
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pantheralegionnaire wrote: What about the Blood Angels' Sanguinor? WIth some Sanguinary Guard to get him there (or even on his own, to set up a challenge), his "curse" abilities will even the playing field a bit? Company standard with the Sanguinary Guard will also give him +1 attack.
Sanguinor would be chump change for Abaddon. For one, if I'm not mistaken, his sword's AP3. For another, he can't join a unit, so he could get focus-fired to death before even getting into combat with him. On top of all that, he's wounding Abaddon on a 4+ (or a 3+ with FC), whereas Abaddon's wounding him on a 2+.
and abby has hatred and PE, so tons of rerolls and more attacks
Thanks for the advice--guess that just solidifies my beliefs that all of the BA special characters got nerfed. I wasn't sure about the Sanguinor, but sounds like it from this...
Lord Yayula wrote: Feed him cheap characters so that he changes into a spawn or DP, that always kills my abaddon. Either that or he rolls enough 1s on his daemon weapon to soften him up
1/6 chance of happening. You are taking a risk though. He could get re-roll armor saves, heal his wounds, or any number of nasty bonuses.
It is actually 1/9th, still seems to happen all the time. Well, actually now that i think of it 1/9th for each character if a good chance of him becoming a spawn after he has slayed a few guardsmen sergeants.
It should be 1/12 for spawn and 1/12 for DP. 1/6 to become not abbadon
There are 36 combinations that can come out of the dice (6x6), out of which 2 combinations make you a spawn (21 & 22) and 2 make you a prince (65 & 66), that is 4 out of 36, 4/36 = 2/18 = 1/9
I thought it was 2 and then 1,2,3 for spawn and 6 and then 4, 5, 6. Guess I was wrong.
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I killed him in one turn after he deep struck behind my Harlequin squad led by Eldrad. Pathfinders ripped him up before the charge. All his terminators died from kisses and Eldrad dealt the last wound he had left after the pathfinder's precision shots during the challenge. Abaddon failed to wound Eldrad's rerollable 3++.
The only time I've played him in 6th, my Bikerz killed his attached squad, then Abby charged my 5 MegaNobz and Grotsnik. They were all in a line chargeing the nearest enemy unit (havoc Rhino) and Abby got a 6 on his random attacks for a total of 11. He caused 3 wounds on his turn. My turn Grotsnik is finally in range after consolidations and Abby challenges, Snik accepts of course, and Abby rolls the 1 which gimps himself. Abby then died. MegaNobz then go on and crush 20+ cultists and a Heldrake and still have 2 left at games end with the Mad Doc looking for more patients.
So he's tough and can cause damage, but isn't too bad. I fear a Iron Arm Flyrant more than Abby on a good day.
Capamaru wrote: Avoid cc and shoot him from afar. If he engages in cc try to feed him an expendable unit. Otherwise only a broodlord has a chance against him in cc, all others will just loose their lunch money.
I think Skarbrand could take Abbadon out in a challenge.
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