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The landraider would allow the terminators to get into combat in their first turn; presuming you can roll over 6".

The 10 termies with combi-plasma would not get into combat for at least a turn. If they plasma too much it may be a couple of turns before they can get to grips. But 10 is more dangerous to a horde army compared to 5 and a LR.

Abaddon or others in a landraider or unit require you to roll 2 or more units for the number you can infiltrate so the strategy can backfire on you.

My thoughs on what to infiltrate are: Ork allies, big unit of 30 with a nob + shootas + big shootas + power claw etc. and if you do get to infiltrate two units then stuff a closecombat CSM unit. The rationale behind the orks (yep there is one) is that a sneeky git costs 10pts, a standards ork costs 6 pts. So for a unit of 30 infiltrating orks your getting a 4X30 point discount which = 120pts and almost pays for Huron; hurah!

 Ineedvc2500 wrote:
Which would be better for an all comers huron list
Infiltrate 10 termies
Or
Infiltrate 5 with a landraider.
The termies would be loaded with dual lightning claws and combiplasmas maybe even abaddon or typhus.

5 with combi plas or 4 with combi and 1 heavy flamer in a raider would be silly.

I have used Huron in combination with Fabius to augment a squad of chaos marines, mark of slaanesh, give them fnp and then infiltrate them.

It's really hard to destroy 20 fearless infiltrating marines, who are STR 5, Init 5, and fnp (until the icon gets killed).

and then you can put fabius in another unit and huron in another unit and you have three fearless blobs of marines with 1 or more of them infiltrating. Even heldrakes can't kill all of those marines before they are in your enemies face.

 Gangrel767 wrote:
I have used Huron in combination with Fabius to augment a squad of chaos marines, mark of slaanesh, give them fnp and then infiltrate them.

It's really hard to destroy 20 fearless infiltrating marines, who are STR 5, Init 5, and fnp (until the icon gets killed).

and then you can put fabius in another unit and huron in another unit and you have three fearless blobs of marines with 1 or more of them infiltrating. Even heldrakes can't kill all of those marines before they are in your enemies face.

3 blobs of 20 fearless possibly infiltrating chaos marines is nasty. It isnt that expensive either.

Fabulous Bill and Huron are made for each other.

 Exergy wrote:

 Ineedvc2500 wrote:
Which would be better for an all comers huron list
Infiltrate 10 termies
Or
Infiltrate 5 with a landraider.
The termies would be loaded with dual lightning claws and combiplasmas maybe even abaddon or typhus.

5 with combi plas or 4 with combi and 1 heavy flamer in a raider would be silly.

Sounds good to me, you pile out, shoot things up and assault. 4 combi plasma would give you 5 or so hits, so you would probably be able to shoot and roll over another unit (5 ot 6) of terminators or take out a handfull of mega-nobz or a few wounds off a dreadknight or riptide (ye-ha, first time I've mentioned one in a post!) before you assault them. Heavy flamer good encase you are assaulting into heavy cover.

All righty then. Lets take it up a notch. Arhiman and Huron. I know 2 hqs is a lil taboo but jeeze thats at least 2 units to infiltrate and both HQs are good. Im diggin the 20 FNP csm blob and LR termies.
Hypo competitive list
Arhiman
Huron
1 MoS IoE csm unit
2 generic csm units for the HQs
1 unit of 3-6 bikes plasma (optional)
2 heldrakes
2 x LR with 5 plasma/axes termies each (infiltrated)
3 oblits
3 oblits
5 havocs w/autocannons
Adl w/ quad gun (optionsl)
If a low infiltrate then deep strike the oblits somewhere good

*edited cuz arhiman cant be in a MoS unit

 Ineedvc2500 wrote:
All righty then. Lets take it up a notch. Arhiman and Huron. I know 2 hqs is a lil taboo but jeeze thats at least 2 units to infiltrate and both HQs are good. Im diggin the 20 FNP csm blob and LR termies.
Hypo competitive list
Arhiman
Huron
1 MoS IoE csm unit
2 generic csm units for the HQs
1 unit of 3-6 bikes plasma (optional)
2 heldrakes
2 x LR with 5 plasma/axes termies each (infiltrated)
3 oblits
3 oblits
5 havocs w/autocannons
Adl w/ quad gun (optionsl)
If a low infiltrate then deep strike the oblits somewhere good

*edited cuz arhiman cant be in a MoS unit

You can only have 1 warlord, and therefore only 1 warlord trait. So you might want to replace ahriman for something else.

I didnt know that. Thanks.

 Ineedvc2500 wrote:
Which would be better for an all comers huron list
Infiltrate 10 termies
Or
Infiltrate 5 with a landraider.
The termies would be loaded with dual lightning claws and combiplasmas maybe even abaddon or typhus.

If abbadon is in your list, I thought he had to be the warlord. Therefore, no warlord trait for Huron. I don't have my book in front of me, though.

 kronk wrote:

 Ineedvc2500 wrote:
Which would be better for an all comers huron list
Infiltrate 10 termies
Or
Infiltrate 5 with a landraider.
The termies would be loaded with dual lightning claws and combiplasmas maybe even abaddon or typhus.

If abbadon is in your list, I thought he had to be the warlord. Therefore, no warlord trait for Huron. I don't have my book in front of me, though.

Yeah, you're right, he gets mardy otherwise

 kronk wrote:

 Ineedvc2500 wrote:
Which would be better for an all comers huron list
Infiltrate 10 termies
Or
Infiltrate 5 with a landraider.
The termies would be loaded with dual lightning claws and combiplasmas maybe even abaddon or typhus.

If abbadon is in your list, I thought he had to be the warlord. Therefore, no warlord trait for Huron. I don't have my book in front of me, though.

With Typhus however you are good as Typhus basically nessesitates another HQ to be your warlord so you dont have to use his god awful trait.

 kronk wrote:

 Ineedvc2500 wrote:
Which would be better for an all comers huron list
Infiltrate 10 termies
Or
Infiltrate 5 with a landraider.
The termies would be loaded with dual lightning claws and combiplasmas maybe even abaddon or typhus.

If abbadon is in your list, I thought he had to be the warlord. Therefore, no warlord trait for Huron. I don't have my book in front of me, though.

Yeah, there is no way the Lord of Chaos would defer command to the Tyrant. That said I think both in terms of in game and out of game fluff Huron is the superior choice.

Yea im a fantasy player crossing over to 40k. Disregard my hypo list i prev posted. Im still a lil behind on the rules. Didnt mean to gunk up the thread.

Don't worry about it. It's better to hash things out in the planning stages and find out something wrong than wait until you've purchased a bunch of models.

Can someone explain why infiltrated units can't assault turn 1?
If a CSM squad is deployed 12" away from an enemy who can not see them, moves 6" then rolls over 6 to assault then how is this an illegal move?

I ask as I Also use the tyrant and his warlord trait is a key factor in running my full assault force.
If your list is anything like mine and you punch face instead of shoot lots of bullets hurion is the best HQ going.
Apart from Maybe Ahriman if you want set powers for the whole game.

DonerStoom wrote:
Can someone explain why infiltrated units can't assault turn 1?
If a CSM squad is deployed 12" away from an enemy who can not see them, moves 6" then rolls over 6 to assault then how is this an illegal move?

I ask as I Also use the tyrant and his warlord trait is a key factor in running my full assault force.
If your list is anything like mine and you punch face instead of shoot lots of bullets hurion is the best HQ going.
Apart from Maybe Ahriman if you want set powers for the whole game.

It is under the infiltration rule in the BRB

I dont have the Rb in front of me but i think the infiltrate spec rules read the unit cant attack the first turn. I dont know if LR spec assault over rules that since its from the army's codex. Im not an authority on the subject


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Another hypothetical sorry i wana hash this out. So the termie full LR is ifiltrated behind lines or flanking. its 1st turn and the Enemy is dug in like a alabama tick in a building. Ive heard that the LR can ram the building thus destroyingp it and the enemy in side. 1)does this happen? 2) does it count as an attack?

 Ineedvc2500 wrote:
I dont have the Rb in front of me but i think the infiltrate spec rules read the unit cant attack the first turn. I dont know if LR spec assault over rules that since its from the army's codex. Im not an authority on the subject


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Another hypothetical sorry i wana hash this out. So the termie full LR is ifiltrated behind lines or flanking. its 1st turn and the Enemy is dug in like a alabama tick in a building. Ive heard that the LR can ram the building thus destroyingp it and the enemy in side. 1)does this happen? 2) does it count as an attack?

Thanks, didn't have my brb to hand.

I imagine so. A ram is not an assault so no rules spring to mind as to why you couldn't. It is treated effectively as a special shooting attack.
Again, no brb to hand.

The rules say "attack" so i guess it cant ram 1st turn

I would not infiltrate termies in a LR, since your are already paying a lot to get them where you want them. Even if the idea of a LR hiding behind a tree is fun.

 Seb wrote:
I would not infiltrate termies in a LR, since your are already paying a lot to get them where you want them. Even if the idea of a LR hiding behind a tree is fun.

Unfortunately for Chaos the land raider is the only assault vehicle they own. Yes, it is expensive. But it is the only way to gurantee a bottom of turn 1 or top of turn 2 assault.

Ive posted lists that include 2 LR without Huron and cuz LRs get so much attention others would say that it may last a turn they would say if ur gonna run them you have to run more than one at any point level. Infiltrating seems to me the most efficient and effective way to field a LR or any high armour in 6th

An infiltrating LR?