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Bludbaff wrote:
If your faith is so fragile that you can't enjoy a work of fiction featuring a religion different from your own, I pity you (not you the poster, just a general you).

I would have phrased it slightly differently.

If you feel your faith can be threatened by works of fiction like this, then maybe YOU ought to work a bit more on your faith because it isn't as strong as you think it is.

The same goes for those religious types who picket movies with a religious theme, or that they see as blasphemous (Like "Dogma", "The passion of the Christ", "The last temptation of Christ" or The life of Brian", etc) - (or even other faiths who go on murderous sprees and idealistic crusades). At least the western Judeo-Christian world gets to make these things.

If anything, these books and movies should be helping you strengthen your resolve - a muscle that isn't used, weakens and atrophies. Faith is much the same.

 Mythra wrote:
I did think it was silly and needlessly inflammatory for them to refer to the Grey Knights chapter as 666. Doesn't it seem like they were just asking for people to get offended?

You mean a supposed "satanic" number from one obscure part of Christian theology that has been so over-used in secular culture that any religious symbolism is long gone?

The symbolisim around 666 isn't "long gone" at all. Just because its overused and well known doesn't reduce its significance.

Exactly over used and doesn't fit 40k at all.

Why throw something in people associate w/ Satan? Looking to cause trouble?

Maybe if it was the Demons or Chaos but for the GKs?

 pwntallica wrote:
...My grandmother once came into the room while my brother and I were young and watching SW episode 1, and upon seeing darth maul, proceeded to take out the movie and burn it, saying there was devil in the movie, and was not fit for young minds to watch ...

Well I applaud burning every copy of the prequels, no matter the motivation.

I'm a christian for the record. Since 40k was originally an obvious parody of dystopian sci-fi, it could actually be seen as subverting the dingy emo "edgy" gak of modern pulp nihilism. (Unfortunately, it lost a lot of that bite as time went by and became more straight.)
It's fiction, but if I took it seriously for a second I'd say Empy was a pretender to divinity who got his comeuppance.

 Grey Templar wrote:
The symbolisim around 666 isn't "long gone" at all. Just because its overused and well known doesn't reduce its significance.

Fun note, many scholars believe that number is simply a coded reference to Emperor Nero. Since he was an avatar of Slaanesh does that mean that Draigo was marked by fate to fall to Him/Her all along? Hmmmmm.

First off, I'd like to thank the people who are keeping this post civilized and on topic, its certainly going better than it did over at the MWG forum.

For those of you wondering, yes, I am still friends with the guy from my story. We never touched the subject again, and it wasn't because he was mad, for he had asked me politely to refrain from it the first time, but because I respect his views and believes. He is a good man and treats everyone with respect.

I haven't actually seen him in almost two years because he's on a mission in Chile for his religion, but we hear from him once every few months.

I have my own philosophies on religion and such, but I generally keep them to myself because I know they're flawed in many ways, and its really my own personal view, and I'm no one to impose it on others.

On the topic of the OP i would say that whatever his wishes for you to not bring it up to him anymore is a grey zone, ofcourse you dont bring up anything he dont like to his face, but he cant stop you from talking about it only because he is close by.

Problem that i can see is that people in general have this weird notion of "If you talk about something bad it will happen" which is just a superstition that basically have no hold in reality, in the same way of salt over the shoulder and horseshoes have on luck, we 40k gamers seen the same "notion" in our games when gamers dont let you touch their dice, or avoid talking about bad rolls because it "might just happen".

 Mythra wrote:
Exactly over used and doesn't fit 40k at all.

Why throw something in people associate w/ Satan? Looking to cause trouble?

Maybe if it was the Demons or Chaos but for the GKs?

The GKs have a theme of people that tread the line of damnation in order to fight evil. They must use the weapons of the enemy to fight, and so must themselves be incorruptable. They do what would damn another soul because they must.

Its the dark side of the ordo malleus.

40k turns a lot of things on their heads, its an alternate reality where things work a certain way.

 pwntallica wrote:

 Blacksails wrote:
I personally find the Warhammer 40k universe to be particularly abhorrent to my religion of the Church of the Flying Spaghetti Monster.

I push through it for the all the women this hobby gets me.

In my world religions studies elective, our final project was to either do a major research project on an existing religion, or create our own. There were a lot of guidelines for creating our own, but I made up the computer God. Oh man I went right out on it too, it was several times bigger and more detailed than the requirements. I did it from a serious stand point. I portrayed viruses to be the spawn of the great evil. The only tenants of my religion were written in binary. My religion had a calendar based of the beginning of computer time (January 1, 1970 by our western calendar). All numerical references were base 2 or base 16, with a few base 8, but I expressly avoided base 10. There were a lot of absolutes, true and false, 0 and 1, and the number of evil was -1, outside the bounds of absolutes, and explained down through the concept of negative integer resulting from an overflow, wrapping back to negative. One day I'll post it online, get feedback and work it up over and over for people to get a good look at.

My religion teacher loved it(he was Islamic in case you care). He said I should print hundreds of copies, and leave them everywhere, and eventually people in the distant future would find it and believe it was a real religion, or people in the not to distant future might turn it into an actual religion.

That's genius, I'd say you should start the religion but then you'd get a bunch of hipsters going "Oh, I'm in the Church of the Computer God, you've probably never heard of it"

 Boggy Man wrote:

 Grey Templar wrote:
The symbolisim around 666 isn't "long gone" at all. Just because its overused and well known doesn't reduce its significance.

Fun note, many scholars believe that number is simply a coded reference to Emperor Nero. Since he was an avatar of Slaanesh does that mean that Draigo was marked by fate to fall to Him/Her all along? Hmmmmm.

Given that there isn't just one anti-christ the number 666 can refer to multiple people, I don't know if Nero qualifies as an anti-christ but thats not important. He certaintly wasn't The Anti-christ but he could have been an anti-christ.

My friend is a mormon, very staunch and very right, believes in no sex before marriage and the afterlife.
I have told him the lore behind 40k, and his only complaint is how fantasy it sounds. He plays magic, with gods and stuff, he knows it is fantasy.
But it struck me as weird, When i was at his house I suggested we watched charmed, His sister said no because it is demonic(And they like harry potter) and they use witchcraft.
What im saying is, even among religious families, views differ.
Now my scary mormon cousin(The same guy who shamed me about 40k) When he found out about the lore and Chaos gods, he got angry thinking im denouncing christ.

Meh, it's fantasy. Some people take things too literally, and honestly with a lack of maturity. Religion doesn't really have anything to do with it, though it's given as an excuse.

I was raised by pro-Mormons, spent most of my adolescent and adult life as a pagan, and am currently converting to Catholicism. No where, in any religion, have I ever seen anything that would make 40k wrong. I don't worship the Emperor. It's fiction. Some people may be offended by such, and asking not to have it around them is reasonable. People have a right to that. Out of respect for someone, we comply like the OP.

I may think the OP's friend is over reacting, but that's his prerogative. As long as his request was respectful, I think the OP has done the right thing.

Still, I don't get it. My wife's family is far stricter in their adherence and beliefs. They are more traditional Christians, though not Catholic. I often think they go a bit overboard, or maybe can just be a bit close minded. Her uncle is a pastor, and he's the one that got me back into table top gaming, specifically 40k. The OP's friend may need to lighten up, but that's just MY prerogative. I don't think he's being unreasonable necessarily.

 hotsauceman1 wrote:
My friend is a mormon, very staunch and very right, believes in no sex before marriage and the afterlife.
I have told him the lore behind 40k, and his only complaint is how fantasy it sounds. He plays magic, with gods and stuff, he knows it is fantasy.
But it struck me as weird, When i was at his house I suggested we watched charmed, His sister said no because it is demonic(And they like harry potter) and they use witchcraft.
What im saying is, even among religious families, views differ.
Now my scary mormon cousin(The same guy who shamed me about 40k) When he found out about the lore and Chaos gods, he got angry thinking im denouncing christ.

That's interesting because this friend likes LotR and Star Wars. One day my group of friends and I were over at his house going through his movies and I noticed he was missing SW Episode 3. I asked him why and he told me they didn't like that movie because it shows Anakin killing younglins. It was kinda surprising, but I took no mind to it. I do know for a fact his family stays away from HP, but they seem okay with LotR.

 Thorn678 wrote:
Dude, the platypus is proof that God has a sense of humor.

And the people in Wal-Marts.

Holy crap. BEST LINE EVER

I would say that OP handled this situation very well, I wouldn't have remained in such a polite manner. And that is all the involvement I will have with this thread, as I like Dakka too much, to let my views on religion out here.

I was just wondering if the OPs friend understood that the novel in question was based on a miniature game? Don't know if that would have made any difference, but i tend to think that people react differently to games.

BTNeophyte wrote:

 Thorn678 wrote:
Dude, the platypus is proof that God has a sense of humor.

And the people in Wal-Marts.

Holy crap. BEST LINE EVER

I always preferred my father's line of reasoning for God's sense of humor: he used to be the kind of guy who'd pick on the kids that played D&D in college, and then he got me for a son.

Gotta love the old man.

 masquerade81 wrote:
I was just wondering if the OPs friend understood that the novel in question was based on a miniature game? Don't know if that would have made any difference, but i tend to think that people react differently to games.

Before I read the preamble, I had mentioned it was from a video game I play. My assumption is that the wording the preamble uses seemed to come off really strong to him, as if it was a faux passage or scripture. But that's just my assumption on how he viewed it. Its something only he would be able to explain.

Wait, someone in this thread actually likes writing essays?!

I personally can't understand people not being able to separate personal belief/fact from fiction.

I bet God has a level 15 Ranger and runs Ultra Marines. He also didn't like the Star Wars prequels.

 Blacksails wrote:
I personally find the Warhammer 40k universe to be particularly abhorrent to my religion of the Church of the Flying Spaghetti Monster.

I push through it for the all the women this hobby gets me.

Post of the year.

this thread is interesting, moreso as most of the posters are based in the US where some sections of society seem to have rather strong religious views...

so i'll chuck in a british perspective


personally i've ecountered one or two who play the game who were christians, they have no problem with it really, as most folks would say its only a game....

however the one guy played Grey Knights and made a quip 'take his name in vane and he will strike you down just over there obviously you could take it either way

In the main no one really cares that much, we all have our own opinions , though personally you do have problems if you get a bee in your bonnet about 40k since as many have pointed out- it is a game of fiction. However the whole game universe takes the micky out of religion really.

Though as a funny anecdote- as my club is based in a church, once as we were coming out we got a jibe form some girl who said 'its the church people' and someone replied 'its satan worship in there you know' (no offence intended)

my religious view point?

i'm a mix, i'm not a total atheist but cannot stand some of the tired old farts who harp on about a world they know nowt about. The values they preach are very good and society owuld be better for it it they were followed a bit more but we all have to make our own way these days, so we jsut have to try to be a decent person

Dracoknight wrote:
On the topic of the OP i would say that whatever his wishes for you to not bring it up to him anymore is a grey zone, ofcourse you dont bring up anything he dont like to his face, but he cant stop you from talking about it only because he is close by.

Problem that i can see is that people in general have this weird notion of "If you talk about something bad it will happen" which is just a superstition that basically have no hold in reality, in the same way of salt over the shoulder and horseshoes have on luck, we 40k gamers seen the same "notion" in our games when gamers dont let you touch their dice, or avoid talking about bad rolls because it "might just happen".

Horseshoes are for keeping away faeries, not bringing luck. :p Although not being visited by a faerie would be pretty lucky to most people who believe their power.

People are naturally superstitious, though. I was raised agnostic, went to a protestant primary school, am engaged to a free church Christian, and am an animist.

My agnostic parents still whistle to call wind when they go sailing, the headmistress at my primary school always threw spilled salt over her left shoulder, my partner knocks on wood and I always roll dice that came up as a 1 last time if I need a 6.

>> Then again, as an animist, I literally believe in the dice gods, so... maybe that last one is a bad example. ^^;

Respecting peoples' beliefs is as much about understanding them as it is avoiding subjects that offend them. Agreeing to avoid talking about 40k around someone who has asked you not to on religious grounds is respectful to their wishes, but it also smacks of taking the easy route, which is no excuse not to ask why it offends him. To respect someone's religion, you have to do your best to understand it - and, honestly, unless you understand something you have no right to dismiss it completely.

Treating everybody equally does not mean treating everybody the same, after all.

Ugh. I just don't get people like that. Luckily I haven't run into any IRL (then again, I'm quite the hermit in general because I don't "get" most people anyway), but they pop up occasionally on the Internet.

People like that need to grow a pair.

I am a Christian, and guess what i am also in the US Airforce. I dont go a single day without hearing/seeing things that go against my beliefs, but its their problem not mine i am not here to convert anyone i am here to live my life to what i feel is the best way to live it.
The ONLY time i, and i feel everyone should be this way, ever EVER get heated up over anything religious is if you attack my beliefs. If its a fictional story, big whoopti-doo theres plenty of them out there. My dad is actually a Pastor of an Assembly of God church, much more devoute than i am, and he still likes watching The Lord of the Rings and other such movies despite them having witchcraft, curses, etc in it that are CLEARLY a sin in our beliefs. But its fictional, so who cares.

This is why todays world is so crappy. The day you were allowed to take legal action against anyone for offending them is the day the world starting falling apart.

As a Christian, Vineheart, don't you have a religious duty to save nonbelievers from hell?

Yes, but it doenst mean i shove it down their throats. If they want nothing to do with it, thats their problem. It doesnt mean i wont poke and prod now and then, but i wont stand on a soapbox and start preaching everytime someone talks about witchcraft, vampires, booze, or sex.

If they show interest, i'll continue, Otherwise i keep my mouth shut cuz it always causes more issues than it resolves.

From my point of view, its people who like one set of made up books objecting to another set of made up books.

Mary335 thats exactly my thoughts as well

Have to say I have no idea the religious views of the people I play mostly because I dont honestly care people are people to me. Havent encountered any one who has been upset by warhammer 40k fiction well unless a certain rule is wrong then they just b*tch lol

Religion has caused more atrocities in this world than anything else
Old saying for you's "God created man , The devil created religion"

Never take life to seriously you'll never get out of it alive

Thought I am now a firm atheist, I was raised Catholic, and I started playing 40k before I disregarded my faith, the fluff never offended me. My sister-in-law however, is a very firm Catholic, and after reading the blurb on the back of Fear to Tread, she gave me a long lecture on idolism and false Gods. After I explained the whole setting to her she got more and more offended and told me it was no wonder I no longer have any faith after I played the game for so many years.
On the flip side, my brother-in-law is also a firm Catholic and he collects Dark Angels. It's all about the person, not the faith.