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Why not give the mortar the missile launcher options, S4 AP5 or S8 AP3?

so, basicaly an indirect ML?
i actually like it. what about point adjustment?
would you make it 15? 20?

How about just bumping the mortar round to S5 AP4, and making them 12 points?

In addition, I mooted an idea a while back about giving mortars paraflares; so they illuminated the target exactly as for searchlights. It doesn't really require any points changes at all; so minimal are the effects.

As for hellguns, I'd rather see them as assault rifles ? 18" S3, AP4 assault 2.

Why not give the mortar the missile launcher options, S4 AP5 or S8 AP3?

great idea, small blast template i assume ? how about on a roll of 1 for the drift, it overheats and kills the mortar crew. then you could keep the costs lower.

it is a bad idea, cause a mortar would never be a pin point weapon. I got a better idea. Str 3 AP 6, large blast template.

That would make the mortar a good idea.

You can't put the shotgun out.

Sure it is useless at the moment, but I love the imagery of my scouts storming out of cover into the flank of say an ork horde blasting away mindlessly with the shotgun. *click click BAM, click click BAM*

Mwahahahahaha.

My take:

Hellgun: Use as lasgun or supercharged to be Heavy 1 s4 Ap6

Shotgun: 12" S3 Ap- assault 3 buckshot or s4 Ap4 assault 1 solid slug.

Multi-melta: May be wielded as a normal melta gun..

Mortar: Combine all as a single weapon. Uses a large template and is S3 Ap6, with +1S for each additional mortar in the squad up to S5. Still cause pinning tests.

Love the idea for the mortar Orlanth however, I am not as keen on your idea for the hellgun, and I think that the shotgun is over powered. You are actually weakening the hellgun from how it is now. The weakness of the hell gun is that it is str3 ap5 rapid fire. I like keeping it how it is, but changing it to assault 2. Or knocking it down to assault 1, or heavy 1 and poping it way up to str6 ap - in keeping with the other las weapons "exception being the lascannon" Even at strenght 6 it would not be that great of a vehical killer as it could only glance. Heck str 5 ap6 would do better vs av10.

Hellgun: bolter stats
Shotgun: 12" S3, AP6 ASS2, +1 attack in HTH (this works for fluff too because it is an easy weapon to wield in HTH & it gives you a reason to take them instead of BP&CCW on scouts)
I don't know enough about mortars

maybe you could give shotguns the blast template on short range? and they should be stronger or have an AP of at least 6.

what's a mortar?

Here?s a thought don?t change any of them, their supposed to be crappy weapons. Hellguns pfff, storm troopers cost that much because they have frag & krack grenades on their profile making them only 1pt more then a regular guardsmen. So, why no just not include the grenades & make them optional. Then people would love them. Also Shotguns are crap plain and simple. They have poor accuracy, they fire slower than assault rifles and the pellets they fire can bounce of Kevlar at long range. So I think GW pt?ed them and gave them the proper stats. Pts = Free in all cases that I know of. But, it would be interesting to see different types of rounds for mortars, just like the nid?s biovore.

Good point Death_Wing. Agreed, dropping the useless grenades and lowering the points by the value of the greades would make them much better.

I think shotguns are fine, the only army they should even be used in is IG and they are just assaulty lasguns anyway. Hell guns are fine, not everyone needs a bolter.

 

For the mortar I like the variable ammo like the granade launcher/missle launcher. Actually I like the missle one more but eh. For my version of the fix.

Blast: S4 AP5 small blast, normal barrage rules for squads.

Krak: S6 AP4, but to determine hits you use the center hole of the template only to determine scatter. This makes it a lot less effective if it scatters, but makes it worth firing against MEQ's. Still pinning.

If fired in a battery as Krak:

First placed normally, If following scatters place the template as you would normally using that barrage rules, and use the center hole again to determine other model's hit. If the following scatter die 'hit' then just count it as an additional hit so if the first one lands with a model under the center hole then a second hit counts as two hits, three as three.

 

So basically you are making a bs2 missle launcher with indirect fire? Hmmm.... Not fluffy..... Mortars kill hoards....

I just realized that would make them awesome at anti tank, lemme fix that real quick.

The Hellgun is supposed to be one step up on the lasgun..... one step.... not three... it's fine where it is.... They don't want you to use storm troopers.... that's why they're 10 points a model..... and really.... considering IG... that's not bad.... giving ever model just carapace is like 8 or 9 points a model....

The forum is called "Fix a useless weapon!" Angron not "Learn how to live with a useless weapon"

@foil, ROFLMAO!

as for the hellgun, I think that they should either change the profile or change the name, I know the first time I was up against someone playing IG with hellguns and they said "and these guys all have hellguns" I was a bit freaked and said "dood, what the hell do those things do?" when my opponent told me I literally laughed out loud and taunted him for the whole game "Oh no, I better keep away from those hellguns" or "oh no, you're firing hellguns at me, I am really screwed now"

I think they should bring back some of the more interesting rules from 2nd edit. When it came to weapons. Anyone remember the 5 different templates... Ahh the good old days... Anyhow It would be interesting to see a mortar that launched a plasma bomb, kind of like a shell that makes a plasma explosion when it lands. Just give it the same stats as plasma cannon, but G12-48 for range & no overheat because nobody is caring it while firing.

Well at the very least I think I stopped people from wanting shotguns to be a template weapon...

I'm new at this and I don't know if this makes shotguns a little too good, but how about:

S2 AP- Assault 2, twinlinked

Shotguns are double barreled weapons that shower their targets with a blast of hot metal pellets, making them more likely to injure a target than a shot from a more precise pistol or rifle. In addition, anyone on the receiving end of a shotgun attack is likely to recoil and cover themselves. Any unit (model?) who fires a shotgun and then charges into combat in the same turn counts as being armed with frag grenades.

This seems like it might give assaulty marine scouts or IG suicide units a reason to take these craptacular guns. If you're striking at the same time as your opponent then a power weapon on a veteran squad sarge might not be a total waste of five points.

Hellguns:
S4 AP- rapid fire

Now it actually is a better version of a lasgun. It's very slightly worse at killing GeQs than the old S3 AP5 hellgun (1/27 or 0.037% less chances), hits marines like a bolter and makes it about 1/3 better at killing MeQs, and it can actually harm those damnable landspeeders when they get into assault cannon range. Provided any of your 10 point tin soldiers survive the heavy bolter and assault cannon.

IMO, the Helgun should simply be S4 AP-.  That makes them better than lasguns in all cases.  Now they are better in some cases.

Shotguns re-rolling to wound?  Seems odd.  How about re-roll to hit.  You have lots of stuff flying through the air.  Or how about add 1 to S everytime you halve the range.  IE, range 6, S4; range 3, S5; 1.5 inches, S6.  That is a bit of "work" with numbers, but makes shotguns act like shotguns, IMO.

CE

how about allowing shotguns to count as an additional close combat weapon
so basically it gives the IG a reason to give them to sgts or vets (outfit them for cc)
and gives another option for SM scouts- who would then have bolters for range, and then either shotguns or bp/ccw for assault, with one being better suited to hordes
maybe instead allowing the shotguns to be fired instead of close combat attacks instead of just as close combat weapons?

"...it gives the IG a reason to give them to sgts or vets (outfit them for cc)"

which means they'll die even quicker in HtH, imho.

they IG is bad at HtH. after looking at the stats for

the shotgun again, i think it would be best as is.

the hellgun would be nice at str. 4 ap 6. still keeps it

below a bolter.

how about giving the shotgun "pinning"

My take is that the Hellgun should have much better AP, thats their supposed role anyway, so what about st3 ap3?

What about fixing Sniper rifles?

Let me try.

Shot Gun: Unit charging a unit with shotguns loses its +1 attack for charging.

Hell Gun: Concur with S4 AP5. Still kills Orks/Eldar and now Tau. MEQ wont care-perfect IG weapon.

Mortars: Each unsuccessfully saved wound from a single mortar team adds a -1LD for pinning.
Doctrine/Special Rule: "Fire For effect": Once per game, after all mortar teams have fired, all mortar teams my fire twice at the same units it fired at in the current shooting phase. Once complete all Mortar teams immediatly make a fall back move 1 D6. Thus preventing counter battery and relarming the next round. The effect is to double up shooting in a turn and not the subsuquent.

Eldar Missle launcher is awsome, it pins. Seems like many people forget that!

finely some people who under stand the under powered wepons

hellguns are bilt to for riping threw armor not to be angry slideshow projecters

shotguns are bilt for paine and sufering and killing, and if you servive a hit there goes your soshel life and/or hello plastic surgy  

bolter stats are good for hellguns only assault 2/3

shotguns could mabe be st 5 ap - (not bilt for tank killing) assault 2 rending (buckshot dose good job at that)

now what about the lasgun? atoguns? hello?

 

Hellgun: S4 AP- Rapid Fire
Shotgun: S3 AP- Assault 2 12" - At half range, S6 AP5
Mortar: S5 AP4 Small blast or S3 AP6 Large blast
Heavy Stubber: same as it is, but AP5
Autogun: S4 AP6 Rapid Fire

ok maby i went over with the shotgun but maby we jump up the shotgun to str. 4 ap. 6 range 12''  assult 2 rending klik clak KABOOM(falowed by scream of unforchenet victom

melta gun the only down side that its hevy and you cant put it on a sentnal along with hevybolteres plasma cannon assalt cannon and ato cannons

heavy stubers fine

helguns str. 5 ap. 4 assalt 2/3

oh ya morters no missele stats you might as well take missels