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Well, partly true; their military assets have been curtailed. Their influence in other aspects of Imperial life are again growing.
They're don't control the Imperium enitrely - for one thing, the Mechanicus' control over the Imperium's technology is absolutely vital to its survival, and you'll be hard-pressed to find an organisation within the Imperium more opposed to the Ecclesiarchy.
I'd even go so far as to say that those are the two main opposing powerblocks in the Imperium
I'm going with the Mechanicum. At least the Mechanicum has direct Imperial sanction, whereas Emperor-worship was personally proscribed by the Emperor himself.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2013/04/30 11:48:56
"In every age, in every place, the deeds of men remain the same"
And why suddenly Ecclesiarchy is an evil organisation which must be fight with? Faith is more necessary for the Imperium now than ever. Even more, as humanity evolves, more and more saints will keep appearing. Also, as I said, humans are psychic race which means that they simply cannot worship nothing. If they worship an imaginary dude in a sky you can be sure that sooner or later it will become real. Same is and with an Emperor. It needs just to mature enough and as Slannesh, fifth chaos demon will appear feeding from worship and emotions in a same way as others do. I doubt it will be Emperor in any way, but it will imitate him due to his followers wishes. In a way, chaos gods is most democratic entities in a world...
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2013/04/30 19:59:58
"If the path to salvation leads through the halls of purgatory, then so be it."
Death Guard = 728 (PL 41) and Space Marines = 831 (PL 50)
Slaanesh demons = 460
Khorne demons = 420
Nighthaunts = 840 points Stormcast Eternals = 880 points.
The Administratum and Mechanicus are the two dominating bodies in the Imperium. Vandire made sure that the Ecclesiarchy's chances for dominance were permanently gutted. Without the Mechanicus the Imperium dies overnight, without the Administratum there isn't an Imperium in the first place.
Midnightdeathblade wrote: Think of a daemon incursion like a fart you don't quite trust... you could either toot a little puff of air, bellow a great effluvium, or utterly sh*t your pants and cry as it floods down your leg.
Kain wrote: The Administratum and Mechanicus are the two dominating bodies in the Imperium. Vandire made sure that the Ecclesiarchy's chances for dominance were permanently gutted. Without the Mechanicus the Imperium dies overnight, without the Administratum there isn't an Imperium in the first place.
That's not entirely true. Vandire made sure the Ecclesiarchy's chances for overt, military dominance were permanently gutted - they can (and are working on it) still rule the non-Mechanicus parts of the Imperium through more subtle means.
Kain wrote: The Administratum and Mechanicus are the two dominating bodies in the Imperium. Vandire made sure that the Ecclesiarchy's chances for dominance were permanently gutted. Without the Mechanicus the Imperium dies overnight, without the Administratum there isn't an Imperium in the first place.
That's not entirely true. Vandire made sure the Ecclesiarchy's chances for overt, military dominance were permanently gutted - they can (and are working on it) still rule the non-Mechanicus parts of the Imperium through more subtle means.
The Administratum can still wipe the Ecclesiarchy off the map by fudging some tax forms and labeling them as treasonous traitors. You do not mess with the pencil pushers.
Midnightdeathblade wrote: Think of a daemon incursion like a fart you don't quite trust... you could either toot a little puff of air, bellow a great effluvium, or utterly sh*t your pants and cry as it floods down your leg.
Beaviz81 wrote: Too bad the ecclechiarchy is the power behind the throne. Not many likes them due to their dogmatic fanaticism.
And then the Mechanicus stops sending the Ecclesiarchy spare parts for all their religious machinery, twiddles their thumbs, then laugh as all their cathedrals collapse upon themselves and the sisters of battle die as they run out of ammunition.
Midnightdeathblade wrote: Think of a daemon incursion like a fart you don't quite trust... you could either toot a little puff of air, bellow a great effluvium, or utterly sh*t your pants and cry as it floods down your leg.
Sure they could. The Inquisition could also label all senior Ecclesiarchy clergy as heretics, mutants and Chaos worshippers, or the Navigator Houses could decide not to guide any of their ships and/or ships with people/cargo belonging to the Ecclesiarchy anywhere anymore.
And should any of them decide to do so, the Ecclesiarchy can a) count on a portion of them defecting due to having been raised in the tradition of the God-Emperor (except the Mechanicus) by the Ecclesiarchy, and b) declare those who try to sabotage the Ecclesiarchy's Most Holy and Righteous mission Diabolus Extremis and have frenzied mobs rip them apart.
That's why all of these people are High Lords. If any one of them decide to stop providing their services, the Imperium collapses. It's a balance of power.
Bran Dawri wrote: Sure they could. The Inquisition could also label all senior Ecclesiarchy clergy as heretics, mutants and Chaos worshippers, or the Navigator Houses could decide not to guide any of their ships and/or ships with people/cargo belonging to the Ecclesiarchy anywhere anymore.
And should any of them decide to do so, the Ecclesiarchy can a) count on a portion of them defecting due to having been raised in the tradition of the God-Emperor (except the Mechanicus) by the Ecclesiarchy, and b) declare those who try to sabotage the Ecclesiarchy's Most Holy and Righteous mission Diabolus Extremis and have frenzied mobs rip them apart.
That's why all of these people are High Lords. If any one of them decide to stop providing their services, the Imperium collapses. It's a balance of power.
Except the AdMech doesn't care, because the AdMech is effectively it's own nation that's merely in an alliance of convenience with the Imperium. Worship of the Emperor is at best, encouraged within it.
Midnightdeathblade wrote: Think of a daemon incursion like a fart you don't quite trust... you could either toot a little puff of air, bellow a great effluvium, or utterly sh*t your pants and cry as it floods down your leg.
Lies, they can't survive without the rest of the IOM. Their Forge Worlds need the Agri Worlds in order to churn out tanks and battleships.
Though the idea is not entirely without merit. The AdMech is fettered to a corpse much like the Germans anno 1916, that's how I see the 40k. they need to win but can't as the combined might of their enemy is greater, yet by some miracle they subsist.
If you have nothing nice to say then say frakking nothing.
Beaviz81 wrote: Lies, they can't survive without the rest of the IOM. Their Forge Worlds need the Agri Worlds in order to churn out tanks and battleships.
Though the idea is not entirely without merit. The AdMech is fettered to a corpse much like the Germans anno 1916, that's how I see the 40k. they need to win but can't as the combined might of their enemy is greater, yet by some miracle they subsist.
The Adeptus Mechanicus is explicitly described as being more or less an independent political entity, just one that's closely allied to the Imperium. Also, do you know what's the food of choice in a forge world? I'll give you a hint, it comes from the same source as Solyent Green. Food isn't the main concern, it's raw materials for their factories such as ores and metals, and the AdMech could get them on their own if they wanted to. But right now the Imperium does it for them so why bother? Given time to set up mining infrastructure, the AdMech could survive on it's own. But without the AdMech the Imperium dies because the AdMech's ten thousand year monopoly on practical sciences has made damn sure that there's no hope for getting anything done without them.
Midnightdeathblade wrote: Think of a daemon incursion like a fart you don't quite trust... you could either toot a little puff of air, bellow a great effluvium, or utterly sh*t your pants and cry as it floods down your leg.
You are that lost in it that you can't even envision me having any good points? Wow take some Valium. Logistic is still king even in 40k they need their food-stuff from the Agri-Worlds.
If you have nothing nice to say then say frakking nothing.
Beaviz81 wrote: You are that lost in it that you can't even envision me having any good points? Wow take some Valium. Logistic is still king even in 40k they need their food-stuff from the Agri-Worlds.
Why grow real food when rendering down people and vermin corpses into paste gets the job done just as well and is technically more nutritious? Flavor concerns are for meatsacks. The AdMech's main requirement from the Imperium are raw materials from mining worlds, not food from agri-worlds.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2013/04/30 21:31:06
Midnightdeathblade wrote: Think of a daemon incursion like a fart you don't quite trust... you could either toot a little puff of air, bellow a great effluvium, or utterly sh*t your pants and cry as it floods down your leg.
Beaviz81 wrote: Actually you are up against fluff there and that would steal place from the industry. That's why they have space-ports.
To get raw materials such as metals and minerals from mining worlds. The traditional diet of a forgeworlder is nutrient paste and blocks made from the bodies of dead workers and vermin.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2013/04/30 21:41:01
Midnightdeathblade wrote: Think of a daemon incursion like a fart you don't quite trust... you could either toot a little puff of air, bellow a great effluvium, or utterly sh*t your pants and cry as it floods down your leg.
Beaviz81 wrote: That's useful if you want your whole workforce to be like Jeffrey Dahmers.
You think the AdMech cares about the living conditions of it's workers?
Midnightdeathblade wrote: Think of a daemon incursion like a fart you don't quite trust... you could either toot a little puff of air, bellow a great effluvium, or utterly sh*t your pants and cry as it floods down your leg.
Beaviz81 wrote: The IOM ain't stupid evil!!! And scurvy leads to too many hospitals, better to import some oranges.
So they're dying earlier? Good, that means they can be reprocessed sooner. And we can make vitamin C without fruit, given that 40k's chemistry seems to be significantly beyond ours it's not a stretch to think that they can manufacture vitamins, which as biological compounds go are fairly simple.
Midnightdeathblade wrote: Think of a daemon incursion like a fart you don't quite trust... you could either toot a little puff of air, bellow a great effluvium, or utterly sh*t your pants and cry as it floods down your leg.
Actually try reading some literature about this setting even Schaeffer gives his troops something boring yet practical, orange juice. Just to keep them off sick-bay for scurvy. remember boys and girls the IOM ain't stupid evil.
If you have nothing nice to say then say frakking nothing.
Beaviz81 wrote: Actually try reading some literature about this setting even Schaeffer gives his troops something boring yet practical, orange juice. Just to keep them off sick-bay for scurvy. remember boys and girls the IOM ain't stupid evil.
And do you know what the Adeptus Mechanicus isn't? The Imperial Guard. The AdMech explicitly uses reprocessed corpses for nutrients and considers eating real, physical food to be a weakness. Once again you try to accuse others of ignorance while only revealing your own. You know, I was under the impression that Norway was a rather intellectual nation filled with reasonable people. But hopefully you're just an outlier. Okay, now unlike you I plan on getting some sleep so I can enjoy international worker's day tomorrow.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2013/04/30 22:14:44
Midnightdeathblade wrote: Think of a daemon incursion like a fart you don't quite trust... you could either toot a little puff of air, bellow a great effluvium, or utterly sh*t your pants and cry as it floods down your leg.
You have shown yourself to have an ostrich-bran Kain, little else.
I'm showing you the basic food-thingy and you are dismissing it to make me me look stupid? If I claim humans in 40k. drink water at least every second day are you going to refute that as well?
If you have nothing nice to say then say frakking nothing.
Beaviz81 wrote: You have shown yourself to have an ostrich-bran Kain, little else.
I'm showing you the basic food-thingy and you are dismissing it to make me me look stupid? If I claim humans in 40k. drink water at least every second day are you going to refute that as well?
Except you haven't shown the AdMech uses it. All you're doing is flapping your arms like some great Scandinavian chicken clucking about how it'd be more realistic if they needed to import food when canon flatly says they don't because they just grind dead bodies into paste and flavorless blocks and use that because it's more efficient. And water? Water is piss easy to synthesize. One of it's components is literally the most common baryonic substance in the universe, oxygen isn't exactly rare either. All you need to purify dirty water is some heat to boil it and some where to move the vapor to condense.
Okay, now I'm going to bed now that I've tucked the kids in. Enjoy acting like an ignoramus and try not to hurt yourself.
Midnightdeathblade wrote: Think of a daemon incursion like a fart you don't quite trust... you could either toot a little puff of air, bellow a great effluvium, or utterly sh*t your pants and cry as it floods down your leg.
Corpse Starch is not the primary food source in a Hive or Forge World, it is *a* food source... but a Hive's population constantly outstrips its death rate. People do not die fast enough to be processed into sufficient base carbohydrates to turn into a styrofoam-like block of dust-flavored nutrients.
Agri-Worlds exist to feed Forge and Hive Worlds. If either of these two latter types of worlds could be self-sufficient, you would not need Agri-Worlds. As they are not, however, the cities still need farmers in the countryside.
What keeps the AdMech a part of the Imperium is the knowledge that, should the IoM decide to, it could erase Mars. The AdMech also knows that it could not hope to survive the galaxy without the manpower of the IoM. It is a mutually beneficial arrangement for both parties. The AdMech exists as an empire within the Imperium.
The AdMech may hold the keys to the technology, but the Ecclesiarchy holds the hearts and souls of the people.
It is best to be a pessimist. You are usually right and, when you're wrong, you're pleasantly surprised.
