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I have one, and totally plan on running it as a Warhound first chance I get. I'm just going to give it a TCCW and a Vulcan Mega-Bolter. It seems pretty dang close to the same size to me, thanks for the picture comparing them.

 Farseer Faenyin wrote:


Proxies matter much less? The idea of Apoc is indeed taking those awesome models and slapping them on a table to kill and be kiled. But that isn't a Warhound model and isn't even close to it in representation. Now slapping that amazing item on the table that looks like a Knight Titan and making it a Knight Titan. THAT is what Apoc is all about.

Here is an oversimplified idea of my reasoning:

"I have these 100 amazing Guardsmen models that are all custom done, I can't wait to field them as Deathwing terminators!!'
versus
"I have these 100 amazing Guardsmen models that are all custom done, I can't wait to field them as DKoK!"

No problem with you fielding it, but at least make it something close to what it appears like.

Another idea. Having something like that on the table might be great for the player with the model, but having another Warhound titan somebody bought and painted beautifully....wrecked by the chainsaw arm shooting D-Str weapons...not as fun for the other guy.

Again...we have no problems with people having the awesome models in question for use in FW...so that may make me lean the way I do.

We're in agreement that the idea behind apoc is less competitive and more about as much being killed as possible. I've looked at a few pictures of this Leviathan and to me it doesn't look that far off in terms of size. I'm attaching an image I found from google which pits them side by side.


As you can see, there isn't a massive difference at stake here. In competitive games would it be allowed? Almost certainly not. But given the relaxed atmosphere of Apocalypse I think it's good sportsmanship to allow your opponent to field such a model, and in turn for your opponent to sacrifice his cover saves by a point if they ever come into dispute.

A review on DakkaDakka here states that the height is the same when the smoke stacks are included; and when they are not the difference in height is barely an inch. http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/520654.page

Given that the Warhound Titan is around 10.5 inches, this would mean that the Leviathan is at worst 9.5 inches. It's about 10% shorter than it should normally be at its very worst. This may sound like a lot, but on such a large model that's already towering over other GW models I don't think this inch is often going to matter.

With regards to your example, I respect that it is oversimplified, but even at that, the 40mm terminator sized bases are 37.5% larger than the 20mm infantry bases of guardsmen. (Almost 4 times the absolute worst size discrepancy (10%) of the Leviathan titan's height, hardly a fair comparison.) And we are comparing width of a base to height of a model. In 40k width is a much more important factor in most cases, especially given assaults/deepstriking. A comparative example, even an oversimplified one would have to compare height, not width of base, and also be much closer to the discrepancy of the original problem.

im kind of surprised by the number of people that wouldnt be ok with it

 Farseer Faenyin wrote:
[
Another idea. Having something like that on the table might be great for the player with the model, but having another Warhound titan somebody bought and painted beautifully....wrecked by the chainsaw arm shooting D-Str weapons...not as fun for the other guy.

Again...we have no problems with people having the awesome models in question for use in FW...so that may make me lean the way I do.

Just want to say that I agree with you for the last part here. I think the weapon should be modeled so that it looks at least somewhat like the weapon that has been chosen.

The argument goes both ways, sensible levels of WYSIWYG make the game more fun for everyone involved..

 Marsden wrote:

 Farseer Faenyin wrote:
[
Another idea. Having something like that on the table might be great for the player with the model, but having another Warhound titan somebody bought and painted beautifully....wrecked by the chainsaw arm shooting D-Str weapons...not as fun for the other guy.

Again...we have no problems with people having the awesome models in question for use in FW...so that may make me lean the way I do.

Just want to say that I agree with you for the last part here. I think the weapon should be modeled so that it looks at least somewhat like the weapon that has been chosen.

The argument goes both ways, sensible levels of WYSIWYG make the game more fun for everyone involved..

i guess it should also be mentioned that more weapon arms are coming out for the Crusader so it wont also be armed with the default cannon and sword

 ironicsilence wrote:

i guess it should also be mentioned that more weapon arms are coming out for the Crusader so it wont also be armed with the default cannon and sword

Thanks for bringing that up, Ironicsilence! Good to know!

Very good to know about the weapon arms and such. I think if it modeled itself more like a Warhound I would be inclined to allow it on the table. You are right in that the size isn't THAT off, so I would be fine with it as my Revenant isn't the same dimensions of a Warhound either.

I still feel like it would be a slap in the face to those that bought a Warhound and has the proper weapons on it.

 rabid1903 wrote:
I have one, and totally plan on running it as a Warhound first chance I get. I'm just going to give it a TCCW and a Vulcan Mega-Bolter. It seems pretty dang close to the same size to me, thanks for the picture comparing them.

Imperial Warhounds and Eldar Revenants are scout titans, and have no options for TCCWs. So if you'd want a TCCW you'd have to pretend it is a Reaver for Imperials.

At this point, if you want to make it have a TCCW, you'd be best off making it your own type of titan and using the unit builder rules.

 Farseer Faenyin wrote:
Very good to know about the weapon arms and such. I think if it modeled itself more like a Warhound I would be inclined to allow it on the table. You are right in that the size isn't THAT off, so I would be fine with it as my Revenant isn't the same dimensions of a Warhound either.

I still feel like it would be a slap in the face to those that bought a Warhound and has the proper weapons on it.

 rabid1903 wrote:
I have one, and totally plan on running it as a Warhound first chance I get. I'm just going to give it a TCCW and a Vulcan Mega-Bolter. It seems pretty dang close to the same size to me, thanks for the picture comparing them.

Imperial Warhounds and Eldar Revenants are scout titans, and have no options for TCCWs. So if you'd want a TCCW you'd have to pretend it is a Reaver for Imperials.

At this point, if you want to make it have a TCCW, you'd be best off making it your own type of titan and using the unit builder rules.

Where could one find these unit builder rules?

There is a company in Greece called 'Titan Manufactorum' that I was thinking of buying models from to make into 'Knight Titans'....this might be a better model though...choices choices.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 A GumyBear wrote:

Where could one find these unit builder rules?

I know that are present in Army Builder but am not at home to check where they referenced from. Will post when I find out!

 Marsden wrote:

 ironicsilence wrote:

i guess it should also be mentioned that more weapon arms are coming out for the Crusader so it wont also be armed with the default cannon and sword

Thanks for bringing that up, Ironicsilence! Good to know!

as for extra arms, I believe the bigger version are part of wave 2 so will hit in the next few months, there are alot of arm options coming, though Dont know how it actually compares to what a warhound can field, but there are some melta, plasma, big giant cannon type things coming.

The kickstarter has the images of the arms
http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/dreamforge-games/something-wicked-this-way-comes-crusader-plastic-m

I really don't see where the problem is...

Some one use a leviathan versus someone that uses a Warhound?...and...

They are different machines, from different designs, doesn't mean that they don't act similar and serve the same purpoe and role.

They are both bipedal towering machines with ridiculously huge and heavy weapons...

So the example of using Guardsmen as DW Termies, is really out of bond and has no place in this argument...

Lets do a check list.

in the 10 inches high? Leviathan; check, Warhound Check.

Can have two huge guns on each arms, with a variety of them? Leviathan, check( check out DF website), Warhound, Check.

Has two legs to let them move around? Leviathan Check, Warhound, Check.

Can be posed in different ways. Leviathan Check( over 200 pieces....) Warhound check...

So they are nearly identical, but still the Leviathan is better for some reasons, that naturally drives people to use them rather then a genuine Warhound.

1- they're plastic..., personnaly this should be the oly reason, and i would'nt need to say more then this, PLASTIC.
2- an affordable price 90$ (with both arms)versus 200£( arms sold separatly...)
3- a different model Design, because personnaly, there is nothing that i hate more, then seeing a guy that as the exact same model has me, thats a big no no for me, i play this game because i enjoy to play with models that i like, and had customized them to the point where they are unique, wich the Warhound does'nt offer me.

You have a Warhound, and you like it, damn fine for you sir, but i don't like the Warhound model, so yeah i would subsitut it for a decent looking model of my choice or convert/kitbash it..

And please stop with the " it does'nt even look similar" argument, of course it doesn't look similar, it looks better..., and in the end they are the same, they are Freakin GIANT ROBOTS...

 Peregrine wrote:

 TheKbob wrote:
I'd allow it. If you're playing Apoc and start getting butt hurt about model sizes THAT much, you're going to need to step back...

... It's APOC. XD

I don't see why "it's Apoc" is an excuse for using bad proxy models. Yes, Apocalypse is a poorly balanced mess rules-wise, but that just means you shouldn't exploit the rule issues. Wanting to play a game with legitimate models instead of proxies that look nothing like the powerful unit they're pretending to be is an entirely legitimate desire.

Why not, if the player pays the points value of the true model? I thought the point was to play the game not show off your amazing bottomless wallet?


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Another question since this seems like the right place to ask, since chaos vomits spikey bits and symbols at things and calls them chaos, could i buy a chaos reaver titan and hack off the spikey crap and sand down the chaos symbols and stuff and roll with it as imperium?

Wow an almost year old thread...

Necro much?