New box of Dire Avengers...hahahahahahahaha! :D

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**Baronyu**

Ravenous D wrote:
stargasm wrote:
That said i left the hobby for 4 years (came back last summer) and the majority of prices had increased 50-100%... in line with inflation.

The white knights will descend from their ivory tower probably at some point and explain that it has something to do with minimum wage and complex cross border shipping expenses and that its some how cheaper then 10 years ago to buy an army.

Ok, you gotta realise that this is happening everywhere, take a look at the video game industry, also a hobby, correct? Production cost of video game is increasing by the million every other day, and look at the price of a xbox 360 game currently: £40...

....
...
..

Hmm... Wait a game that comes out in 2005, 8y ago, is even cheaper?? ...This doesn't make sense...

Well, ignore that example, but this is totally IN LINE WITH INFLATION! DUDE!!

**Farseer_Kaiser**

Maybe the hike was intentional to drive people into using different troops (and make Guardians look more attractive). I mean;

Wraithguard: 33% drop (over metal price)
Jetbikes: 16% drop
Avengers: 66% rise

And its so far above inflation and value per sprue too, there has got to be some design in that increase. Or maybe GW are stupid..

**MajorStoffer**

Farseer_Kaiser wrote:
Maybe the hike was intentional to drive people into using different troops (and make Guardians look more attractive). I mean;

Wraithguard: 33% drop (over metal price)
Jetbikes: 16% drop
Avengers: 66% rise

And its so far above inflation and value per sprue too, there has got to be some design in that increase. Or maybe GW are stupid..

Never attribute to malice what can adequately explained by stupidity.

Makes me suspect that rumoured Guard Veteran/Stormtrooper kit will be $35+ for 5 dudes. When it's a tough unit, worth a lot of points, I don't care that much when it's 35 for 5, especially when they come with lots of bits. But Dire Avengers are only Dire Avengers, no alternate builds, not worth that many points, and remain toughness elf, becomming only particularly deadly when in large numbers, at least in the current dex.

Who knows, maybe now they'll all have 3+ invulns, their guns will rend, fleshbane, and be worth 30 points a pop. I, for some reason, doubt that, and can't explain GW's reasoning other than stupidity.

**Farseer_Kaiser**

Never attribute to malice what can adequately explained by stupidity.

You know what, that was going through my head the whole time I was writing that post! Even so, it seems suspiciously high. I know its trendy to bash GW as money-grabbing morons, but its the lack of consistency that I find confusing.

**MajorStoffer**

Farseer_Kaiser wrote:
Never attribute to malice what can adequately explained by stupidity.

You know what, that was going through my head the whole time I was writing that post! Even so, it seems suspiciously high. I know its trendy to bash GW as money-grabbing morons, but its the lack of consistency that I find confusing.

See, when I think money-grabbing, I think of EA or Apple. Companies which can somewhat successfully push very over-priced products, but market them well, and respond to market limits. They don't, for the most part, transparently and arbitrarily double the price of their products. And if the market reacts poorly to design decision, they usually, eventually relent.

GW is like a honey badger, they give absolutely no feths. They're money grabbing without the intelligence or skill of other money-grabbing businesses. There's all the malice, perhaps even more, but none of the skill. I mean, how could anyone think the hobbit would make a good, double-priced miniatures games? Who would envisage "bundles" with zero discount, and in some regions, are more expensive than their base price? There's so many GW decisions which make no sense, and have no comparable policy anywhere else in the world.

They operate in a vacuum with 20 year out-of-date business policies, ignoring the internet, marketing, the press or community involvement or the demands or desires of their customer base. policies which could make them good money (like a new bits service, as an easy example) are ignored, while they march lockstep into oblivion. The even more asinine thing is their own subsidiary companies have much better business policies. I can't explain most of their policies, i'm at a loss to understand their business plan. They honestly make almost no sense.

**Pouncey**

Baronyu wrote:
ashrog wrote:
Ailaros wrote:
They did the exact same thing to Imperial Guard when they got their new codex. They went from boxes of 20 infantry for $40 to boxes of 10 for $25.

Same exact sprue and everything, just a repackage.

Not exactly the same thing. Dire Avengers went from $35 for a box of 10... to $35 for a box of 5.

"All in line with inflation."... Right? RIGHT?

I used to say that. Then I looked up the actual inflation rate in the 10 years I'd been playing WH40k at the time. It was enough to soften the blow, but didn't account for it on its own. What did account for it in my mind is that the kits have largely been getting better over the years. If we were paying 50% more for exactly the same stuff (actually, some models are like that, but they're a small minority) as 10 years ago, then yeah, there'd be a problem. Inflation in the UK was like 20% over those 10 years by the way.

But yeah, poor ickle Eldar players.. Hopefully Guardians will be better in this Codex. : D

**Hargus56**

I challenge people to back it up, don't buy from them, go play another game and GW will feel the pinch, it might cost them a few stores and when they realize they need to adapt they will or they will die. I can't get people interested in the hobby if it costs hundreds of dollars to get your foot in the door with a small army and book. If they want to make more then lower the price this will bring in more people, as of right now I am done I'll buy the new books for my armies on ebay if I really want to play them, as for my gaming dollars that will be spend on Warmahordes, Infinity and other games. And please don't give me that well Warmahordes on average is $5-$10 per figure, the difference is I can buy a unit for $50 I don't have to spend over $100 for a unit.

**Talizvar**

$8 per model for plastic troops.

They should be listed as "character" models like Nobs to explain the expense.

**MrMoustaffa**

The whole inflation thing would have a point... If I couldn't go to companies like warlord and buy 40 multipart, plastic WWII soviet infantry for 46 bucks.

Their entire competition undercuts them on price. You pay a premium for GW's name. They're kind of the Apple of the mini wargaming industry. They're decent and have a well known name, but their stuff isn't worth what they think it is, especially when you can find stuff just as good for a fraction of the price. Its just not worth (to me at least) the premium they want.

This is kind of thing is making me wonder if I'll end up shelving my IG and Orks when their new codexes come out, not because they're bad, but because of the inevitable price jump

**Pouncey**

MrMoustaffa wrote:
The whole inflation thing would have a point... If I couldn't go to companies like warlord and buy 40 multipart, plastic WWII soviet infantry for 46 bucks.

Their entire competition undercuts them on price. You pay a premium for GW's name. They're kind of the Apple of the mini wargaming industry. They're decent and have a well known name, but their stuff isn't worth what they think it is, especially when you can find stuff just as good for a fraction of the price. Its just not worth (to me at least) the premium they want.

This is kind of thing is making me wonder if I'll end up shelving my IG and Orks when their new codexes come out, not because they're bad, but because of the inevitable price jump

I find it hard to argue with that.

It's still hard to find entire armies worth of good-quality sci-fi miniatures that are both female and not oversexualized. I've found tons of female fantasy-genre minis like that (even bought some to use as Crusaders for my Uriah-bomb). Very little sci-fi stuff, usually limited to a couple of character models here and there. But my googlefu is weak.

**Danny slag**

MajorStoffer wrote:
Farseer_Kaiser wrote:
Never attribute to malice what can adequately explained by stupidity.

You know what, that was going through my head the whole time I was writing that post! Even so, it seems suspiciously high. I know its trendy to bash GW as money-grabbing morons, but its the lack of consistency that I find confusing.

See, when I think money-grabbing, I think of EA or Apple. Companies which can somewhat successfully push very over-priced products, but market them well, and respond to market limits. They don't, for the most part, transparently and arbitrarily double the price of their products. And if the market reacts poorly to design decision, they usually, eventually relent.

GW is like a honey badger, they give absolutely no feths. They're money grabbing without the intelligence or skill of other money-grabbing businesses. There's all the malice, perhaps even more, but none of the skill. I mean, how could anyone think the hobbit would make a good, double-priced miniatures games? Who would envisage "bundles" with zero discount, and in some regions, are more expensive than their base price? There's so many GW decisions which make no sense, and have no comparable policy anywhere else in the world.

They operate in a vacuum with 20 year out-of-date business policies, ignoring the internet, marketing, the press or community involvement or the demands or desires of their customer base. policies which could make them good money (like a new bits service, as an easy example) are ignored, while they march lockstep into oblivion. The even more asinine thing is their own subsidiary companies have much better business policies. I can't explain most of their policies, i'm at a loss to understand their business plan. They honestly make almost no sense.

yeah, every company is obviously out to make as much money as possible but some companies can be more narcassistic about it like apple, GW's fault is ignorance, they don't realize they aren't as amazing as they think they are.

*on the slightly positive side this is the only kit that just got beyond stupid priced...and well the new super giant models are obnoxious. So hopefully dire avengers are a fluke and not the new norm. I also hope they release some new eldar sculpts for outdated models soon.

**DeffDred**

MajorStoffer wrote:
GW is like a honey badger, they give absolutely no feths.

Quoted

**JWhex**

Well if it keeps people from playing Eldar I am all for it because I dont look forward to 40k games against armies that have models walking around that are the size of a human toddler.

**Fezman**

I obviously knew GW prices were...considerable, but I find this extremely disappointing. It just smacks of open contempt for the customer. "Those suckers will pay anything to get their fix!" We'll just have to see how if they sell well, and if they do, I'm sure GW's execs will be slapping each other on the back and wondering why they didn't think of it much earlier. They're probably facepalming right now because after seeing how quickly they were shifting Tau they didn't have the presence of mind to do the same to Fire Warriors and Kroot.

And even if you don't play Eldar, don't think that means you're not affected. Wait until they do the same with Boyz, or Guardsmen, or Hormagaunts, or...

**Oaka**

I just went and bought the last two ten-man boxes of Dire Avengers at my local store for $29 each. I don't even play Eldar, I'll just be looking to resell them once the codex hits.

If this works, I'll start flipping real estate.

**Kid_Kyoto**

Welcome to Guard player's world of pain....

$29 for these yahoos...

Who IIRC were originally $25 for 20.

1 special weapon (of the 5 available) and no heavy.

For $3 a model.

But people keep buying...

**wuestenfux**

Farseer_Kaiser wrote:
Maybe the hike was intentional to drive people into using different troops (and make Guardians look more attractive). I mean;

Wraithguard: 33% drop (over metal price)
Jetbikes: 16% drop
Avengers: 66% rise

And its so far above inflation and value per sprue too, there has got to be some design in that increase. Or maybe GW are stupid..

The price hike for DA is bad news for new Eldar players.
On the other hand, Eldar players usually have DA units and so are not touched by this.

**40kVyce**

Everyone just needs to contact their customer support and let them know how much the dire avengers pricing is discouraging you from giving them your money. I did.

CustServ@gwplc.com

Automatically Appended Next Post:

wuestenfux wrote:
The price hike for DA is bad news for new Eldar players.
On the other hand, Eldar players usually have DA units and so are not touched by this.

That's great in theory, but people like me who are looking to start a second 6ed army (already have some Tau and don't want marines) don't have any DA and now wouldn't buy them knowing what they did with the price.

**Farseer_Kaiser**

I spoke to the manager at my local GW about it and he did just sigh and roll his eyes when I mentioned it, seems the store managers are just as confused about it.

MajorStoffer wrote:
GW is like a honey badger, they give absolutely no feths.

Haha that is so true, they do seem to just do what they want, irregardless of whether it makes financial sense. Thing is, its not even the worst case and its not even close. May I direct you to the Ork Big Gunz:

http://www.games-workshop.com/gws/catalog/productDetail.jsp?catId=cat440268a&prodId=prod1620113a

its a whopping £18.50, for 20pts worth of artillery.

pts per £:

Kannon: 1.8
New Dire Avengers: 4.3

And to use each of them effectively in both cases your looking at buying multiples. (interesting side note; Rhinos are actually even worse, though admittedly their value is not fully represented by their points)

Anyways, who knows what they're thinking..... perhaps maybe they're just a stop-gap while they remodel them in a cheaper guise so then they can bring them back as Dire Avenger: Classic and make a fortune..

**Pouncey**

Farseer_Kaiser wrote:
I spoke to the manager at my local GW about it and he did just sigh and roll his eyes when I mentioned it, seems the store managers are just as confused about it.

MajorStoffer wrote:
GW is like a honey badger, they give absolutely no feths.

Haha that is so true, they do seem to just do what they want, irregardless of whether it makes financial sense. Thing is, its not even the worst case and its not even close. May I direct you to the Ork Big Gunz:

http://www.games-workshop.com/gws/catalog/productDetail.jsp?catId=cat440268a&prodId=prod1620113a

its a whopping £18.50, for 20pts worth of artillery.

pts per £:

Kannon: 1.8
New Dire Avengers: 4.3

And to use each of them effectively in both cases your looking at buying multiples. (interesting side note; Rhinos are actually even worse, though admittedly their value is not fully represented by their points)

Anyways, who knows what they're thinking..... perhaps maybe they're just a stop-gap while they remodel them in a cheaper guise so then they can bring them back as Dire Avenger: Classic and make a fortune..

. . . Might wanna recheck that math.

A Kannon costing 18.50 pounds and being worth 1.8 points per pound...

The Kannon should be 33.3 points (not repeating).

**SlaveToDorkness**

Got me two of the old boxes locally! WOOT!

**Isengard**

MajorStoffer wrote:
Farseer_Kaiser wrote:
I can't explain most of their policies, i'm at a loss to understand their business plan. They honestly make almost no sense.

This depends upon what the purpose behind the plan is.

If the plan is to expand the customer base and grow the business in volume sales, building up a loyal and long-standing, ever-growing market then much of what they do makes little sense.

If the company is seen as a vehicle for profit-taking with no interest in the long-term future, if the ownership doesn't care about what happens beyond their own tenure and sees the firm as simply a vehicle to generate maximum profit for their own pension pots and incomes, then it makes perfect sense. Any company which tries to keep up profits on ever falling sales by increasing prices to compensate, driving sales down again and being forced to raise prices while simultaneously reducing their production capacity is onw which has no long term future and is simply trying to take out as much profit in the now as possible. That's my take anyway.

I suspect this is a tester, if Eldar players swallow it then other current 10 man squads can be repackaged in 5s. The trend has been for squads of 5 since the GK release. What amazes me here is that there is no change in the figures. If they were new sculpts with new options, special weapons, etc then I could see it but this is just a bizarre choice, literally repackaging the same sculpts and optons into half the number for 90% of the price of double the amount is a real two-fingered salute. Clearly the idea is that the basic troop type is a 10 man squad for about £23 and all elites, etc are in 5s.

I immediately laid hands to the only 10 man box I could find at a local stockist, GW had sold out. I note the prices are rocketing on E-Bay too. I luckily have about 45 DA or so including 4 exarchs with a variety of options so I won't be too short.

**SlaveToDorkness**

I'm really going to laugh when the new book drops and they suck too. More of a laugh instead of crying kinda thing...

**Warboss90**

Please forgive me for thread necromancy but I have to say at least GW is consistent in being bad. 3 years later and they're still trying to sell 5 expendable troop models for $35.00, that's $7.00 per model, that (PROBABLY) costs them 10 cents per model to produce and another $2.00 to package...

Yeah, I guess at least they're consistent. I mean, it's a hobby, it's an expensive hobby, and it's not something you should spend your money on if you don't have the means. This is very true! However I have to come back to a saying that I think is appropriate here. Slap a bull once, he'll look at you funny. Slap a bull twice and you're in for it. Slap a bull in the face and you're going to die...

**pm713**

Why did we need a THREE YEAR old thread to come back?

**Grimtuff**

pm713 wrote:
Why did we need a THREE YEAR old thread to come back?

That is all.

**Toofast**

Was it really necessary to resurrect a 3 year old thread for that?