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A bolt cannot rend, either it punches the armor and explode inside the target and kills/wounds it or it does not and does pretty mich a harmless explosion outside the target.
I wouldn't call the detonation of a pepsi can sized rocket inches away from your chest harmless.
I have experienced a persi can sized explosive near my chest...it was called a pepsi can.
It was sticky so perhaps they should have pinning?
Breaking news! This just in from my Eldar-playing housemate!
"No, because you suck, because you're Space Marines."
"That time I only loaded the cannon with powder. Next time, I will fill it with jewels and diamonds and they will cut you to shrebbons!" - Nogbad the Bad.
Furyou Miko wrote: Breaking news! This just in from my Eldar-playing housemate!
"No, because you suck, because you're Space Marines."
But do your Eldar have anything like this?
Midnightdeathblade wrote: Think of a daemon incursion like a fart you don't quite trust... you could either toot a little puff of air, bellow a great effluvium, or utterly sh*t your pants and cry as it floods down your leg.
A bolt cannot rend, either it punches the armor and explode inside the target and kills/wounds it or it does not and does pretty mich a harmless explosion outside the target.
I wouldn't call the detonation of a pepsi can sized rocket inches away from your chest harmless.
Bolters use .75 caliber bullets, not 2,5
The Tick: Everybody was a baby once, Arthur. Oh, sure, maybe not today, or even yesterday. But once. Babies, chum: tiny, dimpled, fleshy mirrors of our us-ness, that we parents hurl into the future, like leathery footballs of hope. And you've got to get a good spiral on that baby, or evil will make an interception.
A bolt cannot rend, either it punches the armor and explode inside the target and kills/wounds it or it does not and does pretty mich a harmless explosion outside the target.
I wouldn't call the detonation of a pepsi can sized rocket inches away from your chest harmless.
Bolters use .75 caliber bullets, not 2,5
We're both wrong, me for getting the caliber of a pepsi wrong, you for saying they fire bullets instead of rockets that outdamage lasguns that can routinely tear off limbs.
Midnightdeathblade wrote: Think of a daemon incursion like a fart you don't quite trust... you could either toot a little puff of air, bellow a great effluvium, or utterly sh*t your pants and cry as it floods down your leg.
Am ok with it ,but only if my lasguns get the option they have in books . To overload themself , shot like a lascannon and sometimes blow up. Would make IG one of the most feared assault armies in the whole game. A wall of lascannon conscripts which blow up their first rank to stop any assault unit.
And the option to keep manticores in reservs , them being so near enemy is unrealistic .they should be in reservs and shot every turn with indirect fire.
And vendettas and other flyers should always be firing at the top armor of any vehicle , just like in WWII and the top armor should be av10 and everything , save huge stuff and maybe the LR being av 11.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2013/06/15 09:28:11
Makumba wrote: Am ok with it ,but only if my lasguns get the option they have in books . To overload themself , shot like a lascannon and sometimes blow up. Would make IG one of the most feared assault armies in the whole game. A wall of lascannon conscripts which blow up their first rank to stop any assault unit.
And the option to keep manticores in reservs , them being so near enemy is unrealistic .they should be in reservs and shot every turn with indirect fire.
And vendettas and other flyers should always be firing at the top armor of any vehicle , just like in WWII and the top armor should be av10 and everything , save huge stuff and maybe the LR being av 11.
Please tell me all of that was sarcasm...
Note to the reader: my username is not arrogance. No, my name is taken from the most excellent of commanders: Lord Castellan Creed, of the Imperial Guar- I mean Astra Militarum - who has a special rule known only as "Tactical Genius"... Although nowhere near as awesome as before, it now allows some cool stuff for the Guar- Astra Militarum - player. FEAR ME AND MY TWO WARLORD TRAITS.
Furyou Miko wrote: Basically, no. Shuricats get it because they're monomolecular-edged - that means that the discs can slide between the molecules in your armour to bypass it completely.
So that is why the shuriken catapult has a better AP value than a SM bolter.
Furyou Miko wrote: Basically, no. Shuricats get it because they're monomolecular-edged - that means that the discs can slide between the molecules in your armour to bypass it completely.
So that is why the shuriken catapult has a better AP value than a SM bolter.
It does if you roll a 6. Which is the point of this thread.
Makumba wrote: Am ok with it ,but only if my lasguns get the option they have in books . To overload themself , shot like a lascannon and sometimes blow up. Would make IG one of the most feared assault armies in the whole game. A wall of lascannon conscripts which blow up their first rank to stop any assault unit.
And the option to keep manticores in reservs , them being so near enemy is unrealistic .they should be in reservs and shot every turn with indirect fire.
And vendettas and other flyers should always be firing at the top armor of any vehicle , just like in WWII and the top armor should be av10 and everything , save huge stuff and maybe the LR being av 11.
Please tell me all of that was sarcasm...
Actually I wouldn't mind some lasgun overloading, making it S4 but the model is removed afterwords (or rolling a gets hot on 1/2)
Even in fluff an overcharged Lasgun is still below a bolter
Makumba wrote: Am ok with it ,but only if my lasguns get the option they have in books . To overload themself , shot like a lascannon and sometimes blow up. Would make IG one of the most feared assault armies in the whole game. A wall of lascannon conscripts which blow up their first rank to stop any assault unit.
And the option to keep manticores in reservs , them being so near enemy is unrealistic .they should be in reservs and shot every turn with indirect fire.
And vendettas and other flyers should always be firing at the top armor of any vehicle , just like in WWII and the top armor should be av10 and everything , save huge stuff and maybe the LR being av 11.
Please tell me all of that was sarcasm...
It's a stupid suggestion right? That's the point, the OP suggested rending on bolters and it was a stupid suggestion. Makumba said he would, but only if he got his list of also stupid suggestions that the OP would probably object to.
You can't infer fluff/technology into anything here - a stubber should have rending and a 1000" range - Tau pulse weapons should all be rending and shadow of the warp has a range of 12 tables in a store.
Why would a stubber be this good? (and what is a stubber?)
A stubber (I'm assuming he means Heavy Stubber) is basically a 20th-21st century Heavy Machine Gun. Those things have a really long range, and probably could hit that far out in a scaleless world that is 40k....
If you approximate an inch as a little bit less than two meters (based on model height), an M2 .50 Machinegun should be effective out to 900-950 inches or so, give or take. Could technically hit further than that, but on an arc that would take the barrel up over the sights and obscure the target, lol.
So yeah, next time you think assault is nerfed in the game, count your lucky stars that shooting hasn't so much been nerfed as the guns reduced in effectiveness so that they have the approximate range of a foam dart Nerf gun.
Marneus Calgar is referred to as "one of the Imperium's greatest tacticians" and he treats the Codex like it's the War Bible. If the Codex is garbage, then how bad is everyone else?
Furyou Miko wrote: Basically, no. Shuricats get it because they're monomolecular-edged - that means that the discs can slide between the molecules in your armour to bypass it completely.
So that is why the shuriken catapult has a better AP value than a SM bolter.
Only in imaginary fairy space land. If it some now managed to have a single atom sided edge (since what's a metal molecule? if I'm being pedantic, which I am) it'd be impossible to prevent that from becoming dulled down.
Also no armour type worth it's salt would be single sheet, so that destroys the idea of sliding between molecular lattices. Even the armour we use today is made up of mesh fibres.
Star Trek taught me so much. Like, how you should accept people, whether they be black, white, Klingon or even female...
A bolt cannot rend, either it punches the armor and explode inside the target and kills/wounds it or it does not and does pretty mich a harmless explosion outside the target.
I wouldn't call the detonation of a pepsi can sized rocket inches away from your chest harmless.
Not harmless to an unarmored human, but to a nine foot Ork? Or a soldier wearing heavy body Armor to deflect the kinetic energy? Or space Jesus? You have to consider the disparity in enemy strength as well as weapon strength.
A bolt cannot rend, either it punches the armor and explode inside the target and kills/wounds it or it does not and does pretty mich a harmless explosion outside the target.
I wouldn't call the detonation of a pepsi can sized rocket inches away from your chest harmless.
This!!!
While this is a fluffy addition to 40k, their is no reason for it.
While I agree that bolters need no upgrades, if you wanted to see them act more like they do in the fluff, they would have AP4.
So many stories of everything turning to mulch getting hit by bolter fire, yet Marines still wade through it.
Mr Mystery wrote:Suffice to say, if any of this is actually true, then clearly Elvis is hiding behind my left testicle, and Lord Lucan behind the right.
Yeah god forbid that one in three space elf bullets bypass precious space marine armor when only 100% of space marine bullets bypass space elf armor....
Only Sororitas bolters should get Rending, not Astartes ones.
And it should be an Act of Faith available ot all Sororitas squads.
Also, no, I'm not joking
The people in the past who convinced themselves to do unspeakable things were no less human than you or I. They made their decisions; the only thing that prevents history from repeating itself is making different ones.
-- Adam Serwer
My blog
You can't infer fluff/technology into anything here - a stubber should have rending and a 1000" range - Tau pulse weapons should all be rending and shadow of the warp has a range of 12 tables in a store.
Why would a stubber be this good? (and what is a stubber?)
A stubber (I'm assuming he means Heavy Stubber) is basically a 20th-21st century Heavy Machine Gun. Those things have a really long range, and probably could hit that far out in a scaleless world that is 40k....
If you approximate an inch as a little bit less than two meters (based on model height), an M2 .50 Machinegun should be effective out to 900-950 inches or so, give or take. Could technically hit further than that, but on an arc that would take the barrel up over the sights and obscure the target, lol.
So yeah, next time you think assault is nerfed in the game, count your lucky stars that shooting hasn't so much been nerfed as the guns reduced in effectiveness so that they have the approximate range of a foam dart Nerf gun.
If artillery had correctly scaled ranges...well, technically doesn't the Deathstrike have unlimited range?
"Hello is this GW Philadelphia?"
"Yes sir"
"Is their currently a game going on that has an IG army in it?"
"Yes sir, there is. Tau are the opponent."
"Tell the IG player that the 33rd Artillery Regiment has come to support him. I'm firing all of my Deathstrikes at the Tau's troops."
"I can't do that sir"
"But I have unlimited range!"
You can't infer fluff/technology into anything here - a stubber should have rending and a 1000" range - Tau pulse weapons should all be rending and shadow of the warp has a range of 12 tables in a store.
Why would a stubber be this good? (and what is a stubber?)
A stubber (I'm assuming he means Heavy Stubber) is basically a 20th-21st century Heavy Machine Gun. Those things have a really long range, and probably could hit that far out in a scaleless world that is 40k....
If you approximate an inch as a little bit less than two meters (based on model height), an M2 .50 Machinegun should be effective out to 900-950 inches or so, give or take. Could technically hit further than that, but on an arc that would take the barrel up over the sights and obscure the target, lol.
So yeah, next time you think assault is nerfed in the game, count your lucky stars that shooting hasn't so much been nerfed as the guns reduced in effectiveness so that they have the approximate range of a foam dart Nerf gun.
If artillery had correctly scaled ranges...well, technically doesn't the Deathstrike have unlimited range?
"Hello is this GW Philadelphia?"
"Yes sir"
"Is their currently a game going on that has an IG army in it?"
"Yes sir, there is. Tau are the opponent."
"Tell the IG player that the 33rd Artillery Regiment has come to support him. I'm firing all of my Deathstrikes at the Tau's troops."
"I can't do that sir"
"But I have unlimited range!"
That would give a whole new dimension of gameplay to world wide campaigns !
What I have
~4100
~1660
Westwood lives in death!
Peace through power!
A longbeard when it comes to Necrons and WHFB. Grumble Grumble
Eldar get it and Marines don't, due to different weapons tech.
Gods forbid that a xeno race gets something the special snowflakes don't
Bolters hurt you by punching a small rocket into you, then it exploding a moment later.
Shuricats do so by hosing you down with unbelievably keen, ultra fine spinning saw blades.
Of the two i think rending fits the shuricat better, but ymmv of course.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2013/06/15 22:14:09
The Viletide: Daemons of Nurgle/Deathguard: 7400 pts
Disclples of the Dragon - Ad Mech - about 2000 pts GSC - about 2000 Pts
Rhulic Mercs - um...many...
Circle Oroboros - 300 Pts or so
Menoth - 300+ pts
Phazael wrote: Yeah god forbid that one in three space elf bullets bypass precious space marine armor when only 100% of space marine bullets bypass space elf armor....
Huh, I never knew Eldar ran entire guardian armies, seems a bit silly don't you think?
Phazael wrote: Yeah god forbid that one in three space elf bullets bypass precious space marine armor when only 100% of space marine bullets bypass space elf armor....
Huh, I never knew Eldar ran entire guardian armies, seems a bit silly don't you think?
Guardians aren't the only ones with bladestorm...
What I have
~4100
~1660
Westwood lives in death!
Peace through power!
A longbeard when it comes to Necrons and WHFB. Grumble Grumble
No, and I really think that's why the Eldar are doing so badly in the "present day" of 40K. They simply do not make such masterful use of multiple, simultaneous and devastating defensive deep strikes.
Order of the Righteous Armour - 542 points so far.
You're just experiencing the Aging Codex Syndrome, many BT/Ork players are suffering from that as well. I'm sure when the SM update hits, rumoured to be next in line, your spezz mahrenz will be great once more! Doubt you'd see rending bolters though, sorry.
Phazael wrote: Yeah god forbid that one in three space elf bullets bypass precious space marine armor when only 100% of space marine bullets bypass space elf armor....
Huh, I never knew Eldar ran entire guardian armies, seems a bit silly don't you think?
Guardians aren't the only ones with bladestorm...
You said 100% of space marine bullets bypass space elf armor.
The only ones that it would are guardians, every aspect is either 4+, 3+, or has an invulnerable save.
Phazael wrote: Yeah god forbid that one in three space elf bullets bypass precious space marine armor when only 100% of space marine bullets bypass space elf armor....
Huh, I never knew Eldar ran entire guardian armies, seems a bit silly don't you think?
Guardians aren't the only ones with bladestorm...
You said 100% of space marine bullets bypass space elf armor.
The only ones that it would are guardians, every aspect is either 4+, 3+, or has an invulnerable save.
I actually didn't say that...wouldn't heavy bolters count as a "space marine" bullet? It uses the same type of ammunition as bolters, just slightly bigger iirc.
What I have
~4100
~1660
Westwood lives in death!
Peace through power!
A longbeard when it comes to Necrons and WHFB. Grumble Grumble
Phazael wrote: Yeah god forbid that one in three space elf bullets bypass precious space marine armor when only 100% of space marine bullets bypass space elf armor....
Huh, I never knew Eldar ran entire guardian armies, seems a bit silly don't you think?
Guardians aren't the only ones with bladestorm...
You said 100% of space marine bullets bypass space elf armor.
The only ones that it would are guardians, every aspect is either 4+, 3+, or has an invulnerable save.
I actually didn't say that...wouldn't heavy bolters count as a "space marine" bullet? It uses the same type of ammunition as bolters, just slightly bigger iirc.
By that logic, Eldar can penetrate 100% of space marine armor, since Bright Lances count as an "Eldar" bullet.
TheLionOfTheForest wrote: With the advent of blade storm I am having a hard time imagining why a monofilament ninja star can rend but a bolter shell (made to penetrate and then explode) doesn't. Could they add this into codex:SM and then FAQ it into codexA? Rending seems to be the new way to make infantry squads have more bite. Everyone is taking about codex power creep and yet at the same time I can't see how they could distinctly change codex:sm to give us anything as cool or effective as blade storm.
What do you guys think? I know it's not likely but a man can wish right?
Welcome to another episode of "why we don't write the rules"!
/sarcasm
No, bolters have enough "bite" as it is. We're fine thanks.
TheLionOfTheForest wrote: With the advent of blade storm I am having a hard time imagining why a monofilament ninja star can rend but a bolter shell (made to penetrate and then explode) doesn't. Could they add this into codex:SM and then FAQ it into codexA? Rending seems to be the new way to make infantry squads have more bite. Everyone is taking about codex power creep and yet at the same time I can't see how they could distinctly change codex:sm to give us anything as cool or effective as blade storm.
What do you guys think? I know it's not likely but a man can wish right?
Welcome to another episode of "why we don't write the rules"!
/sarcasm
No, I think bolters have enough "bite" as it is. I'm fine thanks.
~1660
3000+ pts 
1500 pts
3000+ pts 
1000 pts
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