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 ZebioLizard2 wrote:

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:

 ZebioLizard2 wrote:

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:

 ZebioLizard2 wrote:

 Phazael wrote:
Yeah god forbid that one in three space elf bullets bypass precious space marine armor when only 100% of space marine bullets bypass space elf armor....

Huh, I never knew Eldar ran entire guardian armies, seems a bit silly don't you think?

Guardians aren't the only ones with bladestorm...

You said 100% of space marine bullets bypass space elf armor.

The only ones that it would are guardians, every aspect is either 4+, 3+, or has an invulnerable save.

I actually didn't say that...wouldn't heavy bolters count as a "space marine" bullet? It uses the same type of ammunition as bolters, just slightly bigger iirc.

By that logic, Eldar can penetrate 100% of space marine armor, since Bright Lances count as an "Eldar" bullet.

No, they really don't. Bright lances are nothing like shuriken weapons.

Shuriken Catapult - uses shurikens
Shuriken cannon - uses shurikens

Bolter - uses bolts
Heavy Bolter - uses bolts

Bright Lance - uses a laser

Bolters have no need of rending outside of some special ammo or rule like the Acts of Faith. They're plenty strong enough as it is.

Why not give everything Rending and while you are at it give everything that already has Rending why not double its strength. /Sarcasm

Short answer: no

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:

 ZebioLizard2 wrote:

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:

 ZebioLizard2 wrote:

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:

 ZebioLizard2 wrote:

 Phazael wrote:
Yeah god forbid that one in three space elf bullets bypass precious space marine armor when only 100% of space marine bullets bypass space elf armor....

Huh, I never knew Eldar ran entire guardian armies, seems a bit silly don't you think?

Guardians aren't the only ones with bladestorm...

You said 100% of space marine bullets bypass space elf armor.

The only ones that it would are guardians, every aspect is either 4+, 3+, or has an invulnerable save.

I actually didn't say that...wouldn't heavy bolters count as a "space marine" bullet? It uses the same type of ammunition as bolters, just slightly bigger iirc.

By that logic, Eldar can penetrate 100% of space marine armor, since Bright Lances count as an "Eldar" bullet.

No, they really don't. Bright lances are nothing like shuriken weapons.

Shuriken Catapult - uses shurikens
Shuriken cannon - uses shurikens

Bolter - uses bolts
Heavy Bolter - uses bolts

Bright Lance - uses a laser

I was gonna say how both come from things made of wraithbone, but then I finally remembered Bright Lances come from Psychically charged crystals, bah.

Also even then, Heavy bolters still cannot penetrate heavy aspect armor, nor all the invulnerable saves Eldar has.

Hello, guys! An army I don't play got updated with something really cheesy! Can an army I do play get a piece of some of that cheese?

No one needs rending basic troop weapons. Eldar shouldn't have it, nor should marines or anyone else. I'm all for a heavy/special weapon or two per squad having it, but ALL weapons should not. The new Bladestorm rules are pretty much the only thing I don't like about the new Eldar codex. My homie Phil miscalculated on that one.

If rending isn't squad wide, but only on one or two weapons it would be somewhat useless wouldn't it? Why get one over a plasma when you're garunteed Ap1 or Melta for 2d6 against armor for a chance of 1d6+1d3?

I hope that every army doesn't get rending, because then that would be just silly. If bolters are ever anything other than Rapid Fire 24" S4 AP5, I might just stop playing the game.

It's fine by me.

Not like my DE or Orks ever get to take an armor save anyway, and my shootas could use some Rending love..

I am of course (mostly) kidding..

Yes, bolters should get rending, and then an across-the-board special points hike of 15 points apiece for every model that has a bolt weapon.

Because otherwise I'd take an 1850 point list that was 120 CSM with bolters and then I'd laugh as I caused 27 rending hits per turn of double-tap shooting.

Hope you didn't want those terminators, or monstrous creatures... or infantry... or vehicles... or anything, really. I suppose I'd have to come up with some way of handling AV14, but that's exactly one hole in their killing power...

The only way I can feel comfortable with rending Bolters is as an ammunition upgrade of some kind.

We space marines have versatility on out Tactical Marines, if you want a monster hunter squad, take plasma, so forth and so forth.
Where we lack in super special rules, we make up for in more options and moxy.
The only bolters i think should get rending is Legionnaires, Why?
Because they are shooting ghost bullets.

LOL at a proposal to make marines better.

However, I would be in favor of space marine bolters getting rending against all models in a SoB army, that sounds fair and since the SoB are so rare then it really would not affect game balance in any meaningful way.

LOL at the OP having ditched the thread after starting it...

 SoloFalcon1138 wrote:
LOL at the OP having ditched the thread after starting it...

Drive by troll.

also lol at "ghost bullets". I just have this vision of a rifle that fires balls of the slime from Ghostbusters.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Heck, why don't we just make a rifle that fires ghosts. We can make it AP 1 since ghosts can go through anything, but only strength 2 since ghosts can't really hurt you (but we can make it strength 8 against psykers and demons or something).

 hotsauceman1 wrote:
The only bolters i think should get rending is

Sisters of Battle via Acts of Faith, obviously

I don't know why this would make marines better, it'd make them overall WORSE.

Power Armor? That won't last long, hell it doesn't last long against Eldar now. cheap troops that can easily get around, and murder entire squads.

 Wilytank wrote:
Hello, guys! An army I don't play got updated with something really cheesy! Can an army I do play get a piece of some of that cheese?

Saw your signature and all that popped into my head was: Jaws.

Only if my Tau rail weapons count all armour as 5 and also get to roll 3d6 on the damage table.

Sometimes it's better if the rules don't equal the fluff

 ZebioLizard2 wrote:

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:

 ZebioLizard2 wrote:

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:

 ZebioLizard2 wrote:

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:

 ZebioLizard2 wrote:

 Phazael wrote:
Yeah god forbid that one in three space elf bullets bypass precious space marine armor when only 100% of space marine bullets bypass space elf armor....

Huh, I never knew Eldar ran entire guardian armies, seems a bit silly don't you think?

Guardians aren't the only ones with bladestorm...

You said 100% of space marine bullets bypass space elf armor.

The only ones that it would are guardians, every aspect is either 4+, 3+, or has an invulnerable save.

I actually didn't say that...wouldn't heavy bolters count as a "space marine" bullet? It uses the same type of ammunition as bolters, just slightly bigger iirc.

By that logic, Eldar can penetrate 100% of space marine armor, since Bright Lances count as an "Eldar" bullet.

No, they really don't. Bright lances are nothing like shuriken weapons.

Shuriken Catapult - uses shurikens
Shuriken cannon - uses shurikens

Bolter - uses bolts
Heavy Bolter - uses bolts

Bright Lance - uses a laser

I was gonna say how both come from things made of wraithbone, but then I finally remembered Bright Lances come from Psychically charged crystals, bah.

Also even then, Heavy bolters still cannot penetrate heavy aspect armor, nor all the invulnerable saves Eldar has.

It can if its a megaBOLTER

But now I'm just being silly...


Automatically Appended Next Post:

JWhex wrote:
LOL at a proposal to make marines better.

However, I would be in favor of space marine bolters getting rending against all models in a SoB army, that sounds fair and since the SoB are so rare then it really would not affect game balance in any meaningful way.

Only if they are GK. For fluffy reasons of course.

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:


It can if its a megaBOLTER

But now I'm just being silly...

Pssht, Megabolters are old hat. You want a Bolt Cannon.

 hotsauceman1 wrote:
The only bolters i think should get rending is Legionnaires, Why?
Because they are shooting ghost bullets.

QFT, this is too funny. Go here for some fun off topic musings for a "Ghost Army" on this subject.

Honestly, I think the only way to make the new Vanilla Marine codex competitive in 6th edition is for all bolter munitions to be S10 ap1. Otherwise, Tactical Marines just wouldn't be worth taking.

 TheSovereign wrote:
No they shouldn't, but then again, neither should Eldar shuriken weapons.

This.

It's quite idiotic to give basic weapons rending, particularly units weapons with multiple shots. With the new Guardian rules ten men have twenty shots. Around thirteen hit, and about three or four rend. Against Marines that's three to four dead instantly, then another two or three from failed armour saves.

A 90 point mob of Guardians has just crippled a Marine unit costing double that in one shooting phase.

Rending should only be found on heavy ranged weapons, and unusual close combat weapons, not on every basic weapon in an entire army.

I think it'd make sense fluff wise. But it would probably be game breaking and provide a big disadvantage. Which is why GW will probably put it in the new marines codex.

Then we'll have people whining "but my marines don't have it!"

Freman Bloodglaive wrote:

 TheSovereign wrote:
No they shouldn't, but then again, neither should Eldar shuriken weapons.

This.

It's quite idiotic to give basic weapons rending, particularly units weapons with multiple shots. With the new Guardian rules ten men have twenty shots. Around thirteen hit, and about three or four rend. Against Marines that's three to four dead instantly, then another two or three from failed armour saves.

A 90 point mob of Guardians has just crippled a Marine unit costing double that in one shooting phase.

Rending should only be found on heavy ranged weapons, and unusual close combat weapons, not on every basic weapon in an entire army.

I agree and disagree here. I think the Monofilament rule is a really cool, story driven rule for the Shuriken weaponry, so I'm ok with it. Also, your averages are wrong. 20 shots at bs4 equals 12 average hits, 6 average wounds with 1 at AP2. SO, you're looking at an average of 2-3 wounds from one Guardian Squad firing, this is up from the average before just slightly. It still helps, though with some lucky rolling to get some extra kills.

I personally find Bladestorm is far more of a gamechanger against those 2+ Save models, like Terminators.

Fine,

Give my crons back their Oldcron Gauss rule. Auto wound and Auto Glance on a roll of 6.

Freman Bloodglaive wrote:

 TheSovereign wrote:
No they shouldn't, but then again, neither should Eldar shuriken weapons.

This.

It's quite idiotic to give basic weapons rending, particularly units weapons with multiple shots. With the new Guardian rules ten men have twenty shots. Around thirteen hit, and about three or four rend. Against Marines that's three to four dead instantly, then another two or three from failed armour saves.

A 90 point mob of Guardians has just crippled a Marine unit costing double that in one shooting phase.

Rending should only be found on heavy ranged weapons, and unusual close combat weapons, not on every basic weapon in an entire army.

But at the end of the day its on a T3 model with a 5+ save. The whole point of eldar is they hit hard and fast but are very weak at taking a return beating. Also it guardians with a 12" range gun get into range then your doing something wrong.

Freman Bloodglaive wrote:

 TheSovereign wrote:
No they shouldn't, but then again, neither should Eldar shuriken weapons.

This.

It's quite idiotic to give basic weapons rending, particularly units weapons with multiple shots. With the new Guardian rules ten men have twenty shots. Around thirteen hit, and about three or four rend. Against Marines that's three to four dead instantly, then another two or three from failed armour saves.

A 90 point mob of Guardians has just crippled a Marine unit costing double that in one shooting phase.

Rending should only be found on heavy ranged weapons, and unusual close combat weapons, not on every basic weapon in an entire army.

And how have those 10 guardians got within 12" of the Space Marines?

So you want the crappiest gun and most common gun to get such a crazy rule as Rending? Um...ever heard of balance?

Any MEQ would suddenly be anti-termie/anti-MC by default. Not as much MC but still pretty effective. No army should have their common random infantry be THAT good without paying out the ass to get it.