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So now that SW and GK are much lower tiered why not try more builds with them?

I am having a blast and still winning most of my matches with my wolves do to the fact that playing them has become such a challenge but has made them extensions of my body..... Not literally

Playing mech eldar really doesn't seem like it presents much of a challenge, they are just point and click. Now playing them pre 6th codex was HARD, ask my brother if you don't believe me. He was actually irritated by the new wave serpent rules, bladestorm as well. WS were fine and the BS buff was plenty to make them competitive again, the shield, laser lock and faux rending have made them hyper competitive which makes them less appealing to some gamers who want to be challenged.

Of course this is all just me thinking out loud about first world problems. Really like the direction of the eldar book over all, just wish they hadn't made guardians, wave serpents and spiders the new wraiths, night scythe and AB.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

GTKA666 wrote:
Yay im compitent!

For the first two turns at least Just teasing

I feel bad for you this match though, I hope you give us a surprise by cracking all those serpents but it's not likely. This reminds me of that last year 'Ard Boys ran and my bro brought his footdar then when GK were fresh. He brought a casual list because the local scene we play at was suited for 2500 competitive format and he wanted to "pull" his punches... Then some out of towners showed up with Draigowings ha ha.

Basically I like the composition of your list despite it lacking a few subtle tweaks here and there, but it isn't suited for playing against it's spam hammy counterparts. You should magnetize your WK, I think if you give the D canons a try you'll fall in love with them.

Battle report completed.

Lol corsair it is magnetised but i fell in love with the shield so i glued it on! Its okay though because i can easily take it off. My entire goal for the match was to take out the serpents lol. I could do nothing to the walking telepotation farseer...lcky bastard...

GTK, one reason I like a spiritseer is for Conceal which removes stealth/conceal. When cast on the Farseer, it would have essentially removed his 2+ cover save (if he did not pass his 4+ deny the witch roll).

Regardless, having something (other than Serpents) that ignores Jink or Cover in your army is probably a good thing to try to include. Since you are running a footy list of sorts, perhaps a unit of Dark Reapers would be a good addition? They can get s8 shots and ignore Jink saves on their own.

I actually found a way to fit in a 3rd serpent. My only problem with this game was that i couldnt prevent his farseer and i think with the 3rd serpent i can split my forces up and just annihilate that farseer before he approaches my back field again.

Honestly you only need slight tweaks in this match to win. A third WS and some better target prioritization could have won you the game. And to think, against a "better" gamer I feel he is just exploiting codex creep better here but damn he did it well Good job Jim!

 Red Corsair wrote:
Honestly you only need slight tweaks in this match to win. A third WS and some better target prioritization could have won you the game. And to think, against a "better" gamer I feel he is just exploiting codex creep better here but damn he did it well Good job Jim!

Perhaps, but then I feel jy2 in particular played his Spiders badly. They have incredible speed and should always have targets by turn 2 at the latest, there are very few reasons to Deep Strike them particularly when you don't have any reserves manipulation. The fact that the game only went to 4 turns doesn't help, but it basically meant that jy2 played with about 2/3 of his total firepower for the entire game (each Serpent has similar damage output to ~6 Spiders).

Either way its very nice to see that there are different Eldar builds that can do well, Spiders and Serpents are certainly getting plenty of use (and Jetbikes probably will too once people stock up on them) but since almost everything else in the codex is pretty solid as well it seems like we will see quite a few different lists depending on what people use to support their core.

POST-GAME ANALYSIS:

Mechdar:

As this is my first game with eldar, I will evaluate my army on a unit basis. But on the collective whole, I feel that my army just has too many units for Sean's list to deal with. Almost every unit is a threat and none stick out in particular insofar as target priority. Well, maybe the spiders, which was why I was forced to reserve them. My opponent has got some firepower. He just didn't have enough to deal with 5 serpents, their occupants and everything else as well. Even my spiders coming in late was not enough to give my opponent the edge he needed. He did well enough, taking out all my serpents, before my offense and mobility finally overwhelmed him.

My gameplan all along was to deal with his threats first, mobility second and scoring units third. My targets of priority were his shooty units (i.e. walkers, spiders, crimson hunter), then the wave serpents and finally his troops. Had his wraithknight advanced towards me, I would have dealt with him with my own wraithknight, but by him staying away, that gave me some breathing room to deal with his other units. But by large, I don't think the wraithknight is a huge threat, especially if you play him in a more defensive, counter-assault role.

Farseer: B+. I really like the Lone Ranger, the Laughingseer or whatever you want to call him. He is a force-multiplier as well as a great disruption unit. Particularly if he gets the Warlord trait where deepstriking units do not scatter within 6" of him. With that trait, I run him as a mobile homing beacon for my warp spiders. He can also threaten enemy tanks in their own deployment zone as well as the cheap, hiding scoring units. Overall, he is a great utility character that is hard to deal with unless the opponent has got some way to ignore cover saves.

Guardians: B. They came, they saw and they tried to kick butt. Wiped out a unit of warp spiders and helped to kill the autarch and other unit of spiders. Then go grab the objective. Can't really expect much more from them. A solid troop choice for the cost.

Wave Serpent: A. The majority of my offense this game. Although my opponent managed to kill all my serpents, they did combine to take out the war walkers, crimson hunter and 1 wave serpent. A solid transport that is very worth the price.

Warp Spiders: B+. Although they came in late (Turn 3) and didn't really get a chance to show off their "stuff", they did manage to kill some guardians and draw a lot of fire. Definitely a unit with a lot of promise.

Wraithknight: B. Another unit with a lot of promise. He didn't really do much damage - my opponent made all his cover saves against my WK's shooting and the unit of warp spiders fell back before my WK could assault. However, what he did do was to keep my opponent at bay. His true value lies in his ability to control the board. Otherwise, without him, my opponent would have probably played his Goldmember a lot more aggressively.

MVP: Wave Serpents. It was really a matter of teamwork, but I will give the MVP to my wave serpents because they did the majority of the damage. Ironically, my opponent had 1 of his 2 serpents survive but I had none out of 5 survive. Oh well, in the end, it doesn't matter if they live or die as long as they can contribute to the victory.

GTKA666 wrote:
Yay im compitent! I did some thinking and i really should have saved my WW and popped in and out behind that cover in order to save more glancing power! Asfor the hunter....yea that was a bad choice.

Popping out of cover will help a little, at least against the scatter lasers but not the serpent shields. However, doing that would have probably deprived them of their Turn 1 shooting due to Night-fight. What you should consider next time is outflanking them....but only if you feel that would give your army an advantage.

 Red Corsair wrote:
So now that SW and GK are much lower tiered why not try more builds with them?

I am having a blast and still winning most of my matches with my wolves do to the fact that playing them has become such a challenge but has made them extensions of my body..... Not literally

Playing mech eldar really doesn't seem like it presents much of a challenge, they are just point and click. Now playing them pre 6th codex was HARD, ask my brother if you don't believe me. He was actually irritated by the new wave serpent rules, bladestorm as well. WS were fine and the BS buff was plenty to make them competitive again, the shield, laser lock and faux rending have made them hyper competitive which makes them less appealing to some gamers who want to be challenged.

Of course this is all just me thinking out loud about first world problems. Really like the direction of the eldar book over all, just wish they hadn't made guardians, wave serpents and spiders the new wraiths, night scythe and AB.

For some reason, I'm kind of sick of playing the Imperial armies. I did that for the majority of 5th edition. Right now in 6th, I'm much more interested in playing the Xenos armies. It just happens that they have the more powerful codices of late.

Probably the only Imperial armies that I will still be playing from time to time will be the Grey Knights and once in a while, my space wolves. I partially blame GW for this for releasing the codices too fast. We don't even have enough time to playtest an army before the next Xenos army comes out. And now we have Apocalypse.....

GTKA666 wrote:
Lol corsair it is magnetised but i fell in love with the shield so i glued it on! Its okay though because i can easily take it off. My entire goal for the match was to take out the serpents lol. I could do nothing to the walking telepotation farseer...lcky bastard...

Yeah, that dude is going to be a serious pain-in-the-arse for most armies.

But it may be even worse. I'm thinking of running an Autarch with the Mantle of the Laughing God and Shard of Anaris. That's going to be a real pain for a lot of armies.

 mortetvie wrote:
GTK, one reason I like a spiritseer is for Conceal which removes stealth/conceal. When cast on the Farseer, it would have essentially removed his 2+ cover save (if he did not pass his 4+ deny the witch roll).

Regardless, having something (other than Serpents) that ignores Jink or Cover in your army is probably a good thing to try to include. Since you are running a footy list of sorts, perhaps a unit of Dark Reapers would be a good addition? They can get s8 shots and ignore Jink saves on their own.

I'm seeing a lot of people run DR's lately and then pile tons of buffs onto them with allies. Can't say I'm a big fan of this tactic, though they do seem to be doing fairly well against the right armies.

GTKA666 wrote:
I actually found a way to fit in a 3rd serpent. My only problem with this game was that i couldnt prevent his farseer and i think with the 3rd serpent i can split my forces up and just annihilate that farseer before he approaches my back field again.

Now here's the dilemma. Focus on the farseer and my serpents will tear up your army. Focus on the serpents and the farseer continues running around like a big mosquito. Annoying, isn't it?

And then there's the matter of the spiders....

 Red Corsair wrote:
Honestly you only need slight tweaks in this match to win. A third WS and some better target prioritization could have won you the game. And to think, against a "better" gamer I feel he is just exploiting codex creep better here but damn he did it well Good job Jim!

Thanks.

Whether a unit is good or bad, I'll try to find a way to make it useful. As this was practice for a tournament, I used a more powerful list. But if we were playing more casually, I'd probably experiment with other units in the codex.

Powerguy wrote:

 Red Corsair wrote:
Honestly you only need slight tweaks in this match to win. A third WS and some better target prioritization could have won you the game. And to think, against a "better" gamer I feel he is just exploiting codex creep better here but damn he did it well Good job Jim!

Perhaps, but then I feel jy2 in particular played his Spiders badly. They have incredible speed and should always have targets by turn 2 at the latest, there are very few reasons to Deep Strike them particularly when you don't have any reserves manipulation. The fact that the game only went to 4 turns doesn't help, but it basically meant that jy2 played with about 2/3 of his total firepower for the entire game (each Serpent has similar damage output to ~6 Spiders).

Either way its very nice to see that there are different Eldar builds that can do well, Spiders and Serpents are certainly getting plenty of use (and Jetbikes probably will too once people stock up on them) but since almost everything else in the codex is pretty solid as well it seems like we will see quite a few different lists depending on what people use to support their core.

Maybe. I felt that the spiders just didn't have the range to deploy on the board against another shooty army. If I was playing against a more assault-oriented army, then yes, I would deploy them. But against shooty eldar (or Tau or any other shooty builds), I felt it more prudent to reserve them to preserve them so that their beta-strike can cripple the enemy units that deserve them.

I'm sure we will see many other good eldar builds come up. Serpent-spam is very good, though tournament eldar armies certainly aren't limited to just serpent-spam.

Well the 2 WS were actually fine on their own and i could have just threw the one extra ws at them and then, had the ww outflanked, keep shooting it till you failed one invul save! Your right about the WW outflanking though, that is if there is night fighting.

Shouldn't this be retitled to Mechdar vs slightly less Mechdar?

 DarknessEternal wrote:
Shouldn't this be retitled to Mechdar vs slightly less Mechdar?

Ha ha, actually your right. I hadn't noticed until you mentioned it but having two WS and a NS kind of does shift it away from footdar. That said titles are rather pointless for 40K armies anyway.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
@jy2- I remember your first reports that I followed back in the day were when the new DE were released and you didn't upload any pics actually. It would be great if you did a series using DE even if you had to borrow some models. I feel like they would present a good challenge and you can use eldar allies to gap fill if needed. I think they are still playable on their own though, with quite a few builds other then the usual venom spam.

Well, you crushed him with Serpents. Not surprised. Those big Guardian squads didn't seem necessary. Imagine how bad it would've been if you'd had WW's shooting from turn 1 instead of Spiders letting you down.

Spiders are amazing. I've been saying that for a while. In a mech list, though, Walkers are better. Spiders stick out and make target priority easy. Walkers better support Serpents with their range. Unnecessary Guardians could be dropped for DA to make room. At 2k, you could even keep the WK and just take SL Walkers.

I did like your Seer build. I thought the "Solitaire," tactic would only work with an Autarch. You've showed me otherwise. So, I did get something out of this at least.

Great report! You know how much I appreciate the work you put into these. Looking forward to the next one, as always.

I like GTK's list better... It was like David versus Goliath. I think with a little time GTK will grow into a very competitive gamer. : )

The wave serpent army is totally spammed... Which I think makes it an unbalanced list. Sure it won this game but I'd like too see how it performs at a major event. Also you pulled the old switcharoo... Not necessarily a d move but maybe it was a bit annoying for GTK.

Lol his WS didnt do much actually and i averaged killing 1.5 a turn while having my 2 left alive and it still took him a while to kill the injured one. I would argue that his mvp was actually the farseer because had the spiders not come behind the lines I still had a shot and would chase the gjb so they wouldnt be able to contest. Goldmember would shoot down and charge the spiders and then the guardians would cheer as their own treacherous bretheren died in a brilliant fire.

I was actually pleased with how my list did against jy2 because now i can just simply out flank my WW in knight fight, but if it isnt night fight then I will simply just go all out and wreck WS left and right.

Thanks dover lol. I now realize that even though the quad is reliable, the WS can just wreck face so i am going to scratch that and go WS power. If i face jy2 again people will see a new army that will make jy2 sweat more than turns 1-3 of our tyranid game

Wow, sneaky tactic with the Farseer turbo boosting and Spyder landing in the back field.

Wave Serpents have a lot of utility and is definitely one of the best units in the new Eldar codex.

"All my scythes move 6-12in..."

Just noticed this from turn 1 while rereading. Hahaha.

GTKA666 wrote:

Well the 2 WS were actually fine on their own and i could have just threw the one extra ws at them and then, had the ww outflanked, keep shooting it till you failed one invul save! Your right about the WW outflanking though, that is if there is night fighting.

Yeah, you had plenty of targets for me to try to shoot down that I decided to ignore your serpents for a little while. War walkers, crimson hunter and spiders kept my attention long enough to see you even our odds with the serpents.

 DarknessEternal wrote:
Shouldn't this be retitled to Mechdar vs slightly less Mechdar?

Honestly, I was playing footdar and Sean was playing mechdar. I only had 5 vehicles to his 6.

 Red Corsair wrote:

 DarknessEternal wrote:
Shouldn't this be retitled to Mechdar vs slightly less Mechdar?

Ha ha, actually your right. I hadn't noticed until you mentioned it but having two WS and a NS kind of does shift it away from footdar. That said titles are rather pointless for 40K armies anyway.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
@jy2- I remember your first reports that I followed back in the day were when the new DE were released and you didn't upload any pics actually. It would be great if you did a series using DE even if you had to borrow some models. I feel like they would present a good challenge and you can use eldar allies to gap fill if needed. I think they are still playable on their own though, with quite a few builds other then the usual venom spam.

There's not a whole lot of DE players here. Frankie and his venom-spam is probably the only one I know of currently in the north bay. Reece and Grant both play eldar with DE allies. The other DE players I haven't seen around in a long time.

I suppose I could play against a proxied army if I really wanted, but currently, I don't feel the need to do so. Perhaps when DE become common-place again in tournament play....

 hippesthippo wrote:
Well, you crushed him with Serpents. Not surprised. Those big Guardian squads didn't seem necessary. Imagine how bad it would've been if you'd had WW's shooting from turn 1 instead of Spiders letting you down.

Spiders are amazing. I've been saying that for a while. In a mech list, though, Walkers are better. Spiders stick out and make target priority easy. Walkers better support Serpents with their range. Unnecessary Guardians could be dropped for DA to make room. At 2k, you could even keep the WK and just take SL Walkers.

I did like your Seer build. I thought the "Solitaire," tactic would only work with an Autarch. You've showed me otherwise. So, I did get something out of this at least.

Great report! You know how much I appreciate the work you put into these. Looking forward to the next one, as always.

Their shooting against GTKA's warp spiders would probably prove more useful than that of 5-man dire avenger units. As for having a lot of guardians, they actually proved to be more than my opponent could handle. 1 unit my opponent probably could have taken out, but when I disembarked all 50 guardians, he really didn't know which to shoot. Psychologically, they help to make target prioritization for my opponents even that much more difficult.

Though in the future, I just may drop 1 unit of guardians (in wave serpent) and perhaps some spiders in order to try to fit some other units in.

Next one is going to be a tough, tough battle for mechdar....against my very good Wraithwing Tesla-spam Necrons!

 Dozer Blades wrote:
I like GTK's list better... It was like David versus Goliath. I think with a little time GTK will grow into a very competitive gamer. : )

The wave serpent army is totally spammed... Which I think makes it an unbalanced list. Sure it won this game but I'd like too see how it performs at a major event. Also you pulled the old switcharoo... Not necessarily a d move but maybe it was a bit annoying for GTK.

Not everyone will like wave serpent-spam. Heck, a lot of people just don't like spam lists....but whether you like it or not, spam lists are effective in most cases.

It is balanced. To me, unbalance is usually when you spend too many points into just a few, inflexible units. Then if someone was to take out one of those units, your army will be crippled. Serpents with troops are only 235-pts and they are a very flexible unit. Good resiliency, good mobility, good offense and can get away from assault units - spamming serpents definitely does not unbalance your army. It's spamming one-dimensional units (i.e. running 3 daemon princes or 3 land raiders) or deathstar hammer units which may unbalance your list.

You will see it against a very competitive army - wraithwing tesla-crons - in my next battle report.

Changing armies is ok depending on your intent. In this case, I really wanted to try out my new TAC mechdar list. Also, it is a better simulation of a tournament environment as your really don't know what your opponent will be bringing. Facing a list like mine is definitely something you can realistically expect in tournaments. Believe me, mechdar is strong and you will see them make it to the more advance rounds of a tournament.

I may be able to head down there on thurs and saccrifice some of my ork friends squigs to the traffic gods so the roads dont get all jammed up . Sound good for ya Jim?

I would also like to face the wraithwing or some other army i havent seen (namely demons) if we meet again.

Not a fan of spam-lists myself, if only for the reason that fielding them often requires you to buy a lot of a same model, which with a codex change could become 'nerfed' with a codex update. With my glacial speed of painting, I'd rather not have to paint the same thing over and over.

And of course, with the current Eldar codex, where pretty much every unit can be considered flexible and good, you don't have to resort to spam to make a competative list, which are usually more fun to play and to play against.

That said, I'm looking forward to the Eldar versus Necron report! I wonder how the two ancient nemeses will fare against each other.

 Redemption wrote:
Not a fan of spam-lists myself, if only for the reason that fielding them often requires you to buy a lot of a same model, which with a codex change could become 'nerfed' with a codex update. With my glacial speed of painting, I'd rather not have to paint the same thing over and over.

And of course, with the current Eldar codex, where pretty much every unit can be considered flexible and good, you don't have to resort to spam to make a competative list, which are usually more fun to play and to play against.

That said, I'm looking forward to the Eldar versus Necron report! I wonder how the two ancient nemeses will fare against each other.

i can tell you right now that one wins while the other loses with some champagne drinking and hugs occurred during the battle...o there was a pink elephant in the battle as well.

GTKA666 wrote:
Lol his WS didnt do much actually and i averaged killing 1.5 a turn while having my 2 left alive and it still took him a while to kill the injured one. I would argue that his mvp was actually the farseer because had the spiders not come behind the lines I still had a shot and would chase the gjb so they wouldnt be able to contest. Goldmember would shoot down and charge the spiders and then the guardians would cheer as their own treacherous bretheren died in a brilliant fire.

I was actually pleased with how my list did against jy2 because now i can just simply out flank my WW in knight fight, but if it isnt night fight then I will simply just go all out and wreck WS left and right.

Thanks dover lol. I now realize that even though the quad is reliable, the WS can just wreck face so i am going to scratch that and go WS power. If i face jy2 again people will see a new army that will make jy2 sweat more than turns 1-3 of our tyranid game

It's somewhat ironic that your 2 serpents outlived my 5 serpents, but without my spiders on the table, there really wasn't anything other than my wraithknight and farseer to shoot at. But with regards to your army, I really didn't go after your serpents until I dealt with your other threats. Maybe I need to work on my target prioritization?

Regardless, your offense was going and you were able to do a lot of damage which actually kept the game close until near the end. Actually, had my spiders come in on Turn 2, I would have dropped them (or at least 1 unit) in my own deployment side to go after your spiders. So perhaps them not coming in on T2 was a blessings-in-disguise?

 SabrX wrote:
Wow, sneaky tactic with the Farseer turbo boosting and Spyder landing in the back field.

Wave Serpents have a lot of utility and is definitely one of the best units in the new Eldar codex.

Had my spiders came in on T2, I probably would have dropped them (or at least 1 of them) in my own deployment half to deal with his spiders. I would have then advanced my wraith knight (with Prescience and Forewarning) towards his army. Once he's there, you can't really ignore him.

But as it turned out, they didn't come in and I had to go with Plan B. The rest is history.

GTKA666 wrote:
I may be able to head down there on thurs and saccrifice some of my ork friends squigs to the traffic gods so the roads dont get all jammed up . Sound good for ya Jim?

I would also like to face the wraithwing or some other army i havent seen (namely demons) if we meet again.

Sounds good. People normally come here around 6pm but I can make it there a little earlier if you want (probably 5:30).

Just to give you an idea of the competitiveness on my armies, my wraithwing necrons is probably my most competitive army. If you can beat them, then your army's got what it takes to win a GT. On a scale of 1-10 in terms of how competitive, I will rate them a 10.

For my daemons, which is what I will most likely be bringing, I will be trying out a new daemon build I call my Herald-hammer Daemons. It's a fast, synergistic army that is just as deceptive as your eldar. It isn't really a balanced army but the combos/shenanigans I can pull off with that army will catch some by surprise, especially if you haven't really faced daemons before. I would rank this build a 7.5.

In comparison, I would rank your footdar a 7.5 and my mechdar a 9.5.

 Redemption wrote:
Not a fan of spam-lists myself, if only for the reason that fielding them often requires you to buy a lot of a same model, which with a codex change could become 'nerfed' with a codex update. With my glacial speed of painting, I'd rather not have to paint the same thing over and over.

And of course, with the current Eldar codex, where pretty much every unit can be considered flexible and good, you don't have to resort to spam to make a competative list, which are usually more fun to play and to play against.

That said, I'm looking forward to the Eldar versus Necron report! I wonder how the two ancient nemeses will fare against each other.

I think I'm going to call this mechdar build my Tournament All-Business eldar army. This is the type of army I would take to a tournament with the goal of trying to win the tournament. It is all business and no fooling around. It is also the type of army I wouldn't use in casual play, just like my wraithwing necrons.

Painting-wise, it still beats orks. I was starting on an ork army with 120+ boyz but just about gave up after painting a few. I think only the most disciplined can paint orks.

As for other eldar units, I will probably collect more in due time. As for now, I am quite limited in my eldar models, only having just started them very recently.

Not everyone will like wave serpent-spam. Heck, a lot of people just don't like spam lists....but whether you like it or not, spam lists are effective in most cases.

I think you fail to understand my point. Spam armies inherently are weak this edition... they are totally RPS armies.

It is balanced. To me, unbalance is usually when you spend too many points into just a few, inflexible units. Then if someone was to take out one of those units, your army will be crippled. Serpents with troops are only 235-pts and they are a very flexible unit.

I have seen this type of army before back in 4th edition at Adepticon... it got its arse handed to it by none other than a Ravenwing army of all things. 235 points for a troop choice is good for what these units bring... I don't think they are that good to merit that many in one list though.

Good resiliency, good mobility, good offense and can get away from assault units - spamming serpents definitely does not unbalance your army.

There are plenty armies that can blast away several serpents in one turn... especially if they go first.

It's spamming one-dimensional units (i.e. running 3 daemon princes or 3 land raiders) or deathstar hammer units which may unbalance your list.

You certainly learned your lesson spamming AV14.

@Dozer

I think it's safe to say that we can agree to disagree. Spam lists are not inherently weak. Almost all the major GT winners have been spam-lists. Note that spam-lists doesn't necessarily mean mech-spam.

My wraithwing-tesla crons is a very strong spam-list with 18 wraiths, 4 flyer troops and 3 annihilation barges.

The recent Tau GT winner is a spam list - 2 ethereals, 120 kroots, 3 riptides and 3 skyrays.

Tony Kopach's most recent list is a spam list with 3 stormtalons, 3 thunderfire cannons and a whole bunch of troops.

One of the strongest daemon builds include spamming FMC's.

Drop pod space wolves is an army that spams grey hunters in drop pods and perhaps multiple rune priests backed by 3 units of long fangs.

One of the most powerful CSM list is a spam list that involves 3 heldrakes and 9 Nurgle oblits. The list goes on and on.

Now spam isn't necessarily balanced (i.e. daemon FMC-spam). However, it is still going strong.

Ironically, the armies that can blast away several serpents a turn will most likely be a spam-army, or at least 1 that spams a lot of heavy weapons.

I would be leaving hayward around 530 so lets aim for 630 in terms of meeting. As for what army to bring...bring one thursday and the other the next time we meet

Sounds like a plan.

jy2 there are plenty of GTs this year... you have cited a few winners to support your position on spam. Sure it is something that can win a GT but I think if we wait until the end of the year and see the final results for all the major events you will see that more balanced armies will do better overall.

I don't consider SW drop pod armies very competitive either in any events that have five or more rounds... again due to the very RPS type of build it is.

Also Heldrakes are losing their edge in my opinion. They are good but three is not worth it in the current meta.

Finally a fast melee army like daemon cav rush and rip those serpents like tin foil... I have seen it happen too.

 Dozer Blades wrote:
jy2 there are plenty of GTs this year... you have cited a few winners to support your position on spam. Sure it is something that can win a GT but I think if we wait until the end of the year and see the final results for all the major events you will see that more balanced armies will do better overall.

I don't consider SW drop pod armies very competitive either in any events that have five or more rounds... again due to the very RPS type of build it is.

Also Heldrakes are losing their edge in my opinion. They are good but three is not worth it in the current meta.

Finally a fast melee army like daemon cav rush and rip those serpents like tin foil... I have seen it happen too.

Then blast the to high heaven with a wk. That didnt work? Then charge the bastards! Next year though or any recent gt i will bring my harlies into the mix and confuse everyyone by having them in the list. It shall be a good day when that happens.

The best thing to do is:

1) Study the meta - you will see some winning net lists
2) Build a very balanced army that exploits the weaknesses of the net lists
3) Profit!

How can one study meta when the meta will change within a few months..and then a few months after that and so on. Now if it was the current meta..i can do that