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 Vineheart01 wrote:
Seriously? Open topped means he can hit the passengers? That fethhead is a WAAC and TFG to the max.

It might also be that he was mistaken. He might be a new player and is going on what someone else told him. He's clearly wrong, but never assume malice when ignorance could suffice.

 Ailaros wrote:
A battlewagon full of tankbustaz should do fine. You've got a big bubble of S8 that sort of doesn't care if it snap fires or not.

Also, displacement. With proper spacing, a helldrake isn't hitting more than a few models per blast.

QFT... If i were an Ork player this is how'd i'd make those turkeys pay!

Actually, you can also take dakka jets to counter them. The chances of glancing one to death in a single turn is higher than you'd expect, and if they return fire, they can't use their flamer. If you catch a drake in the rear, your super-shootas are pretty much guaranteed to make toast out of the helldrake.

If you still have your Waagh and even a single dakkajet has rear armor view of a chicken, you better call da waaagh like a boss! pretty hard to wiff that many shots that glance on 4s.

Actually, it's not as hard as it seems, as this article here showed me:

http://www.3plusplus.net/2013/06/killing-flyers-in-40k-part-3-orks-and-the-art-of-dakka/

As it appears, three Dakkajetsstand a pretty decent chance to take down one hell turkey per turn, no Waagh! necessary. So in reality, you would probably come on, call the Waagh! and blow one drake out of the sky and damage another, killing it in the following turn. If you manage to get behind the drake, one jet might even kill it all by itself.

I wouldn't take the word of the people on 3++ as law though, very few of their contributors (or the opponents of those) actually play orks, so their ork-specific advice should always be taken with a grain of salt. Applying their general strategies to orks always worked great for me though.

 Jidmah wrote:
Actually, you can also take dakka jets to counter them. The chances of glancing one to death in a single turn is higher than you'd expect, and if they return fire, they can't use their flamer.

Baleflamer Heldrakes cannot return fire against dakka jets. They can vector strike them, but that doesnt prevent them from using their flamer

Dakka Jets combine with lootas means you should not have any problems with the drake.

On the plus side, baleflamer drakes need to be relatively close to their target since its a ~16" or so inch range (torrent + flamer template, forget exact range) so if youre dakkajets are at max range and/or not right next to something the baleflamer can damage, he wont vector strike the jet for a decent chance to blow it up vs take out a bunch of lootas or something. D3+1 S7 attacks can be devastating but bad rolls happen so he can flop them (either the number of attacks or the attack itself)...so the dakkajet can be relatively safe from the hellchicken and still shoot it.

12" range plus 8" template.

Of course you are relatively safe outside of 16" as that puts more limits on the template.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Vineheart01 wrote:
On the plus side, baleflamer drakes need to be relatively close to their target since its a ~16" or so inch range (torrent + flamer template, forget exact range) so if youre dakkajets are at max range and/or not right next to something the baleflamer can damage, he wont vector strike the jet for a decent chance to blow it up vs take out a bunch of lootas or something. D3+1 S7 attacks can be devastating but bad rolls happen so he can flop them (either the number of attacks or the attack itself)...so the dakkajet can be relatively safe from the hellchicken and still shoot it.

You can Vector Strike one thing and Flame another. They don't have to be at the same target.

I think what he meant is that you'd have to actually move towards the jets in order to vector strike them, which might be forcing the CSM player to move somewhere where good targets for the template are scarce.

Never understood why you could walk up to a fortification and stick your flamer through a window, but people riding in a flat bed pickup truck are completely safe from everything in the game until their transport explodes. I should really stop thinking about this, but it's one of the 40k rules that annoy me the most (yep, of all the weird rules in this game that's the one I pick).

45 lootas, skyshield landing pad, IG allies with Vendettas and Hidras. And dual nob bikers with good enought spreading to survive turn 1.

 dementedwombat wrote:
Never understood why you could walk up to a fortification and stick your flamer through a window, but people riding in a flat bed pickup truck are completely safe from everything in the game until their transport explodes. I should really stop thinking about this, but it's one of the 40k rules that annoy me the most (yep, of all the weird rules in this game that's the one I pick).

I assume its one of those non-fluffy things that are just to balance the game. If open topped vehicle passengers were vulnerable, using an open-topped vehicle would be suicide unless it was transporting one hell of a unit such as an MC .... if thats even possible without the race issue....hahaha that'd be funny see a Wraithknight standing on top of a Venom or god-forbid a Trukk.
They probably allow the building one because its very difficult to get that close without dedicating multiple units to trying, it should be rewarding.

The other, not to mention makes them sell more, is certain MCs or other mechanical beings not being considered a walker. By all rights of fluff and logic, almost the entire Tau codex should be armor value based instead of normal units. walkers being such a crappy state right now, if the wraithknight or riptide were considered an AV12 walker noone would ever get it (sparce the few for collective reasons or the I WANT IT I DONT CARE type)

 dementedwombat wrote:
Never understood why you could walk up to a fortification and stick your flamer through a window, but people riding in a flat bed pickup truck are completely safe from everything in the game until their transport explodes. I should really stop thinking about this, but it's one of the 40k rules that annoy me the most (yep, of all the weird rules in this game that's the one I pick).

It would be really hard to balance, it would be really difficult to make rules for. And it's not like the rules for closed top vehicles make any sense either: hits that penetrate an APC have a habit of liquefying the occupants.

Hardly unfluffy. Flamethrowers were actually invented to flood trenches and bunkers with burning fuel to kill whoever was inside without actually having to destroy the fortification. They were not meant for short-ranged combat against groups of soldiers like every strategy game ever displays them.

Models inside vehicles are safe for gaming reasons. A lascannon would probably kill some marines inside a rhino as well, and a demolisher cannon shouldn't leave anything alive when the vehicle's armor fails. However, 40k is meant to be a game, not a simulation, so there is no point for ever asking any part of the rules to be realistic. If you want realism, you shouldn't play a game where space knights fight football hooligans with axes.