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Granted 3 is kinda cheezy, but playing in a tourney people use what works. So was watching a game where an ork player meched up, and got destroyed pretty much single handedly by the drakes. First turn they were on board, they fried 2 battlewagons worth of guys since there open topped. Lootas managed to down one with 2 squads firing at it. Next turn the last one comes on and along with the first take out 7 each of the loota squads, who promptly spent 2 turns running off board.

Now I have seen games where someone takes 2 warbosses in mega armor, and attaches them to his lootas, then puts them at the forefront and takes all the wounds on +2 save, then lookout sirs the fails. But is that really what orks have had to become? Warbosses sitting in the back babysitting the lootas for any chance in hell of winning? There are more chaos players than marines where I am and none of them use less than 2 helldrakes a game. What were they thinking giving a flyer a super flamer, vector strike, a DEMON SAVE and regeneration to boot. They don't even have to jink.

The best set up I got going now is I use three squads of ten lootas behind an ADL with a quad gun. I also keep a unit of big gunz to man the quad gun for the BS3. I then use three squads of thirty shoota boyz spread out in front so that the heldrakes can't reach them. The heldrakes will more than likely only have one turn of flaming then they have to decide to either fly off or drop into hover mode because with that many bodies on the ground they don't have many places to land. Hope this helped a bit.

You can fit two squads of lootas on a skyshield landing pad for a 4++. That should help. Green tide can also work as there's only so much a template can kill if you space them out right. With enough guys on , the turkeys will have to expose their rear at some point. When they do, dakka them to death with your shootas.
Otherwise... allies are probably your best bet, with Tau or IG coming out on top for AA.

Vector strike is deadly on Wagons. Side AV 12 and open-topped means they're likely to get wrecked or explode, taking out half the squad inside and having them nicely bunched up for the flamer. Meching up is not the best way to go vs the Hellturkey. Trukks might be better as they're fast and are thus more likely to grant a turn 2 charge. Once your boyz "get stuck in", they're safe from that damn flamer.

Btw, look out sirs are done before armor saves, so the megaboss trick doesn't work.

 ectoplastic wrote:
You can fit two squads of lootas on a skyshield landing pad for a 4++

Helldrake's baleflamer-thingymabob Ignores Cover, sadly.

I find some Gretchin behind an ADL with a Quad Gun is a reasonable investment. You have interceptor, and a decent chance of doing some damage, as well as having a great Troops unit for sitting on home objectives. Aside from that, Lootas work well, and Shoota Boyz do too, to some extent. If you're not fussed about it though, taking some allies is probably the easiest option. You could take Chaos allies and get some Helldrakes of your own!

The problem is that the Skyshield is an Invuln save, not a cover save... So it's perfect against the Heldrake...

Orock wrote:
First turn they were on board, they fried 2 battlewagons worth of guys since there open topped.

Am I missing something? Why does that matter?

with the vector strike and the interceptor rules. are they done simultaneously as both are done at the end of the movement phase right?

rigeld2 wrote:

Orock wrote:
First turn they were on board, they fried 2 battlewagons worth of guys since there open topped.

Am I missing something? Why does that matter?

This. Heldrakes cannot burn embarked units, open topped or not.

Also sky shield is 4++ vs shooting and heldrakes do not ignore invulns.

If you have enough bodies, spread them out and they'll only kill 4 or 5 a turn which means little to orks. A mega armored warboss allows loot as to move and still shoot when attached. The flamer still removes casualties from the closest model so put the warboss up front and tank wounds on his 2+.

Orks have a lot less to fear from drakes than many other armies. Spacing and movement is key.

What about the Dok? Give Cybork bodies to your important stuff, take mega nobz, and have lootas on a bastion/that new fortification from apocalypse. The one with 2 Twin-linked icuras lascannons.

I'm confused how D3 S7 hits is scary for AV12. They need a 6 to pen and a Battle Wagon has 3-4 hull points. It would take two drakes to have a good chance at destroying a Battlewagon by stripping hull points and if they fail the lootas get to shoot back and that could really hurt just due to weight of fire. Not to mention maybe taking two dakka jets that can also light up rear armor shots if your opponent is trying to devote that much resources to removing lootas.

 Alfndrate wrote:
The problem is that the Skyshield is an Invuln save, not a cover save... So it's perfect against the Heldrake...

Wow... I never knew that. That's pretty awesome, not that it makes any sense at all...

 The Shadow wrote:

 Alfndrate wrote:
The problem is that the Skyshield is an Invuln save, not a cover save... So it's perfect against the Heldrake...

Wow... I never knew that. That's pretty awesome, not that it makes any sense at all...

If you read the description of the Landing Pad:
Landing pads are launch bases used by flight-capable craft to unload or evacuate troops and vital personnel. The Skyshield landing pad used by the Imperial Navy, though originally purpose-built to accommodate Valkyrie and Vendetta gunships, is robust enough to serve even the Thunderhawks of the Adeptus Astartes, and has field generators that protect the craft and its crew from incoming fire.


The "field generators" are what give the invuln save against shooting.

A battlewagon full of tankbustaz should do fine. You've got a big bubble of S8 that sort of doesn't care if it snap fires or not.

Also, displacement. With proper spacing, a helldrake isn't hitting more than a few models per blast.

Hmm they must have played it wrong then. The chaos guy said since the vehicle is open topped, the flamer template hits everyone inside.

I've been playing since 3rd ed. and that has never been the rule iirc. Sounds like shenanigans.

Orock wrote:
Hmm they must have played it wrong then. The chaos guy said since the vehicle is open topped, the flamer template hits everyone inside.

You got cheated, badly.

There is no rule in this game that allows for you to shoot the passengers of any vehicle, open topped or not.

Orock wrote:
Hmm they must have played it wrong then. The chaos guy said since the vehicle is open topped, the flamer template hits everyone inside.

Yeahhh.... Next time have him show you (he cant). Sounds like someone who wants his helldrakes to do everything for him :/

 Dr. What wrote:

Orock wrote:
Hmm they must have played it wrong then. The chaos guy said since the vehicle is open topped, the flamer template hits everyone inside.

You got cheated, badly.

There is no rule in this game that allows for you to shoot the passengers of any vehicle, open topped or not.

I've encountered more than a few people who think this is the case, inc. one from dakka.

For killing helldrakes, look no further than GW's gold plated AA fortress

 Dakkamite wrote:

 Dr. What wrote:

Orock wrote:
Hmm they must have played it wrong then. The chaos guy said since the vehicle is open topped, the flamer template hits everyone inside.

You got cheated, badly.

There is no rule in this game that allows for you to shoot the passengers of any vehicle, open topped or not.

I've encountered more than a few people who think this is the case, inc. one from dakka.

Yeah...I've had people mention that they want this to be. The problem is, it'd be horribly broken and kill any chances of survival for Dark Eldar and Orks (which, conveniently, are the 2 armies I play).

Wow.. bad enough that he brought three 'drakes, but then he has to cheat w/ them too??

Never play this person.

~Vryce

Three drakes is SOP for CSM. Don't expect your opponent to be merciful and not bring them. However, they do have to follow the rules. Which are quite generous for those damn things I might add.

I might add that this is the same kind of logic I ran into with the GW store guys when I complained about how hard Vendettas own Stormravens. They wanted to know why I would play with people bringing so many Vendettas. Because I want opponents, and people aren't dumb.

I don't think 3 helldrakes is SOP for CSM. You are much more likely to see 2. helldrakes against maxed spaced boys will kill around 8 boys a turn which should not be a problem for the pro player. Max out your cohernancy and get into combat and you are fine.

I run 3 mobs of 12 lootas which work as my anti air and anti light tanks.

And since you're snap shooting anyways, always take the opportunity to move your lootas first to get them into better positions for future shots.

Lootas are great vs fliers

Lootas. Its all about the Lootas.

You only have a 50% reduction in firepower due to snapshots.

15 lootas, with an average of 2 shots each, will average 5 hits and 1.11111 damage results after saves, with half being pens and half being glances. 3 units of 15 lootas can drop one Heldrake a turn. And thats with no additional input from the rest of the army.

And if you roll even slightly above average the Heldrake is in trouble.

Seriously? Open topped means he can hit the passengers? That fethhead is a WAAC and TFG to the max. That has never been a rule.in fact there is 0 drawback to opentopped besides penned rolls.

I havnt faced 3 heldrakes yet but 1-2 doesnt phase me. He has to take out lootas or die, while my bikernobz clean his floors and shoot its butt when it flies over them for the lootas. Baleflamer really means little to bikernobz, and if he flies over them they can own him

Lootas/Tankbustaz and Dakkajets help me win control of the skies while a mass of shootaz in dakka/rokkit rolla wagons and bikernobz get all up in his grill and unleash hell on his marines. Of course if the all slot all out assault doesn't work out I'm usually fethed.

 Dr. What wrote:

Orock wrote:
Hmm they must have played it wrong then. The chaos guy said since the vehicle is open topped, the flamer template hits everyone inside.

You got cheated, badly.

There is no rule in this game that allows for you to shoot the passengers of any vehicle, open topped or not.

dont play cheater, but this shouldnt be an issue at a tournament

The Heldrakes should be rough on Orks. Orks don't have much for armour, and the drakes burn them up. Fluff (and rules wise), it is how it should be.

Lootas are your best bet. Or ally with IG for some anti air. Biker nobz can help, but are expensive and Chaos has other counters for them.

It is a tough one, but Orks deserve some challenging games. They were OP in 5th, and a lot of Ork players had a God complex. No more.

Orock wrote:
Granted 3 is kinda cheezy, but playing in a tourney people use what works. So was watching a game where an ork player meched up, and got destroyed pretty much single handedly by the drakes. First turn they were on board, they fried 2 battlewagons worth of guys since there open topped. Lootas managed to down one with 2 squads firing at it. Next turn the last one comes on and along with the first take out 7 each of the loota squads, who promptly spent 2 turns running off board.

Now I have seen games where someone takes 2 warbosses in mega armor, and attaches them to his lootas, then puts them at the forefront and takes all the wounds on +2 save, then lookout sirs the fails. But is that really what orks have had to become? Warbosses sitting in the back babysitting the lootas for any chance in hell of winning? There are more chaos players than marines where I am and none of them use less than 2 helldrakes a game. What were they thinking giving a flyer a super flamer, vector strike, a DEMON SAVE and regeneration to boot. They don't even have to jink.

Lootas are a good answer, you just need to make sure you have them spread out. 2" max in a circle makes a very large footprint, but they will always be able to see the drakes because of how high they are. Also the drake has 5++, so it doesnt really matter if you cannot see the whole drake(it would get a 5+ cover save).

Boyz on foot are also pretty good. 30 boyz at 2" max is a HUGE area that can also prevent a heldrake from moving somewhere. Yes he will kill a lot of them, but at such a cheap price it doesnt really matter.

Battle wagons are pretty hard for a drake to crack, but not impossible. AV10 rear can be penned by the flamer relatively easily but then he isnt shooting other things.
A MANZ missile might be ok as well. Sure the truck will die(perhaps even before the drakes come on) but you should hopefully be able to move close enough to the enemy lines turn 1 to get the MANZ into combat. There isnt anything drakes can do to them.