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 Archonate wrote:
Jaegers sucked balls.
Designed primarily for melee fighting, (when they should have been packing high caliber explosive rounds with a high rof, instead of a VERY slow charging plasma cannon) they still managed to suck abysmally at melee since all they seem to do is throw punches. No Wolverine claws, no spiked fists, drills, saws, nothing... except a sword which they are outrageously reluctant to use, no matter how badly they're getting pummeled.

Jaegers are inferior in every way. Even a small 40k titan of any race would tear one to shreds in both shooting and melee.

Well, aside from the fact that the Jaegers are entirely pointless within their own universe...

Seriously. Just mine the damn portal with nukes.

A Jaeger wouldn't stand a hope in hell against a Titan from any race..
Sure a Jaeger survived a nuke, but could it stand up to a turbo laser shot, or even a Vulcan Megabolter? I think not, because the sheer force of the detonation of the bolt rounds against the Jaeger's armour would knock it down, or at least make the pilots into a mound of strawberry jam.

Jaegers would smoke a titan. GD has a Plasma Canon, rocket jets, and 2 (count 'em, 2) anti-anything swords embedded in it's forearms. Simply too fast for a Titan to keep up with.

Ninjakinshu wrote:
Jaegers would smoke a titan. GD has a Plasma Canon, rocket jets, and 2 (count 'em, 2) anti-anything swords embedded in it's forearms. Simply too fast for a Titan to keep up with.

Raw speed doesn't matter when a Titan is aiming its long range weapons at you. What matters is your relative lateral movement to the weapon's tracking speed.

Against a very large Imperial Titan, it is possible to outmanuever the weapons entirely if you fight in in something other than open ground. So I could see a Jaeger getting close enough to the Warlord to force CC and win the day. Against a Reaver this chance drops significantly, and against a Warhound the chances are slim that the Warhound wouldn't just run to a more optimal defense location and wait for the Jaeger to show itself.

Now against something as agile as a Revenant or Phantom with their weapons dedicated to dealing with other titans(Pulsars and D-Cannons) the Jaeger simply doesn't have a chance. The Eldar Titans can track their weapons entirely too fast and will rarely be surprised with their superior sensor/countermeasures technology.

The Jaeger's defensive systems are terrible...the titans defenses are stellar.

Outside of lifting a war hound and putting it on it's head, the Jaeger has no hope of defeating even the smallest titans.

Once it gets close to the Titan, the weight, shields, materials of the titan are too much to overcome from anything that could be created in the next few decades. It would take a few nukes (d weapon) to knock out a titan...One emp shut down the highest tech Jaeger.

A Jager trying to stop a Warlord or an Emperor is going to be like an MMA fighter trying to knock down a pine tree with his bare hands.

Assuming the Jager got that close in the first place.


The only place a Jager would have any sort of cover would be a city, and what is stopping the Titan from just leveling the city. And if the Titan can actually track the Jager's position the weapons are powerful enough to just blow right through the cover and hit the Jager directly.

The purpose of an Imperial Titan isn't really to fight other titans in 1v1 combat. At least not under ideal situations. Titans are intended to lend fire support to surrounding armies, however large they may be. They wouldn't send a Titan out because they need to kill another lone titan.

That being said, I find the physics of a 40k titan to actually be significantly more believable, at least from a movement standpoint (weapons and all that aside, I mean). The sheer mass of something 25-150 meters tall would make it impossible for any metal to hop around like a Jaeger would. The force of a 500 ton behemoth crashing down on the ground would destroy both the ground, and the mech.

I'm not saying that either one is particularly believable or realistic, I just find the 40k version to be a little bit more kosher in terms of the "would this thing even be able to move as advertised" test. People want mechs to fight other mechs, but it's simply not the realistic application in a military setting. Battleships were rarely sent out by themselves with no support, and when they were, it was for brief periods because they were easily overwhelmed by smaller, lighter craft that could get in close and pepper the ship with small fire. It's too much of a risk for both sides involved...take, for example, the Bismark of WW2 when it engaged the British battleship Hood.

The Bismark destroyed the Hood, yes, but the Hood also crippled the Bismark so much that it had to slowly move to a safe haven port, which resulted in its eventual destruction. Had these ships engaged with their fleets, they probably could have gotten away safely using the covering fire, with only smaller loses incurred by both sides.

What I'm saying is, huge mechs and capital ships should always, in a realistic scenario, be used in supporting fire roles. Anything else is too much of a risk. Therefore, while the Jaeger would probably win in a 1v1 scenario assuming the physics of both sides worked (they don't) The 40k wins in my book because of it passes the preliminary smell test.

Titans are just battleships with legs. All titans, especially Imperial ones, are horribly weak against any kind of close combat, regardless of being armed with building-sized power fists, if not only because if the attack is from any direction than directly in front, they have to slowly and ponderously turn to engage, and void shields do absolutely nothing against melee attacks.

The Jaegers are a completely different machine from the Imperial Titans. Without much of a ranged arsenal, (they had a couple things but no major long range primary weapons,) the Jaegers would be horribly outmatched unless they could sneak up on the Titan some how. Keep in mind also that the pilots and crew for Jaegers are all at the top, in an obviously visible and vulnerable spot. The Imperial Titans have a crew everywhere.

Actually the entire command crew of an Imperial titan is in the head. Even with the large crew of a Warlord, the Steersman, Moderati, the Princeps....even the head Engineseer are in the head. It's the same situation, decapitate or even do major damage to the head of a titan, and it's dead.

Of course the Titan's head is protected by void shields. And really the Jager will never get close enough to punch the head.

Well, I can debate all night long but I will give a simple analysis based on a per Titan basis.


Imperial and Chaos Titans in general

Their void shields are.more than capable of soaking up most of the Jaegar weapons, the most sophisticated of which seems to be Gipsy Danger's Plasma Cannon, which appears somewhere between a Plasma Destroyer on a Leman Russ or Predator Exerminator, and a Warhound Plasma Blastgun.
In addition Titans only have a single pilot who operates on his own in coordination with the Titan's sentience itself so is probably a lot more responsive and fliud than the Twin-Pilot system which requires both pilots in sync, and the death of any one crew member other than the Princeps won't completely wipe the Titan. Additionally, there are other crew who do the shooting and driving thus allowing the Princeps to command without distraction if he prefers.
Any Titan bigger than a Warhound also has the capability of one or more Vortex missiles, which would plain and simple, pasturise the Jaegar. Imperial Titans also have the benefit of being made of adamantium, a metal that, if Xmen and Wolverine is anything to go by, is indestructible in the 21st Century.

Warhound Titan

Are small compared to the Jaegar but Imperial ones usually hunt in pairs, and Chaos ones in groups much larger. A Vulcan Megabolter, Plasma Blastgun or Turbolaser Destructor would annhilate a Jaegar within a few hits, and between the multiple Titans and their agility compared to others, Warhounds win.

Reaver Titan

Have more powerful weaponry including the Gatling Blaster, a more powerful Vulcan Megabolter essentially, and a Laser Blaster, which IIRC is the 3 Barrel equivilent to the Warhound's Double Barreled Turbo Laser. A third weapon on top, possibly a Vortex missile, helps to no end. Improved front armour and stealth systems (IIRC from Titanicus but don't quote me) helps to no end in avoidindamage where possible, and soaking up frontal damage better than others when it can't. In CC it can equip a Powerfist but a Jaegar is much more maneuverable and human-esque, and apparently bigger, so it would win here, although at range, or even with a few good shots, the Reaver wins. Reavers are also quite decent at Titan-Titan combat in cityscapes, much like the Jaegars are.

Warlord Titans

Are approaching the same size as Jaegars. Two Vortex missiles possible, and more powerful arm weaponry to boot. Volcano Cannons and Plasma Destructors, essentially upscaled and uppowered versions of the Turbolaser and Blastgun, both of whic can be mounted in the shoulders in addition to the more powerful arms. A VC or Plasma Destructor will wipe a Jaegar within 3-5 sots guarenteed. While incredibly ponderous, the Warlord Titan with a powerfist would be able to land a punishing blow if it manages to connect.

Emperor Titans

Nearly, or in some cases, over, twice the height of a Jaegar, likely all but impervious to its weapons and with the most powerful weapons in the Imperium and Chaos realms not mounted on a spaceship, I can.call this in favour of the Emperor Titan. Its carapace can mount 6 weapons that go on a Reaver or Warlord's arms, as well as Vullcan Megabolters, and the all-powerful Vortex Missile. Its arm weapons are nothing short of city-destroying levels of power. Even if the Jaegar were to close enough to avoid the Carapce weapons, a volley from Plasma Annhilator, Hellstorm Cannon or Vengeance cannon and poof! No more Jaegar. A Doomsday Missile Launcher would destriy it on sheer magnitude of shots. Stepping on a Jaegar would help destroy it too.


Now, on to others.


Orks

Pretty ramshackle so the Jaegar weaponry might have a chance of hurting it. If the Ork's Mega Shooty fing of Death doesn't unload 9 trillion rounds into it. Remember orks also have their psychic field so would likely cause massive damage.

Stompas.

Thesr are pretty tiny so a Jaegar would probably win here.

Gargants

Approxiamtely the size of a Warhound or possibly a Reaver but full to bursting with weapons. i really can't say with this one.

Great Gargants

Probabl somewhere in the region or a Reaver-Warlord Titan in height a more weapons.than you can imagine. I reckon weight of fire edges it on the side of the Orks.

Mega-Gargant.

Clear winner here. Bigger than a Warlord Titan and probably more guns than the entire US Navy combined. Jaegar might have a chance up close but watch out for the 2+ Chainsaws it will likely be toting.


Eldar

I won't even bother going into detail here. Any advantage the Jaegar has is lost here. Agility? Eldar are faster. Weapons? Eldar are better. Close Combat? The Phantom with a Power Glaive would eat it alive. Reactions? The Eldar Titan is psychically fused with its pilot, if anything easily the equal, and in my opinion surpassing, the Jaegar drift system, but not suffering the lag of the second pilot. Not to mention Wraithbone construction and Holofields.


Tyranids.

Tyranids are quite similar to Kaiju the Jaegars were desgined to face. The ifference here is A) they come it multiples, always. B) They are more readibly mutable and replacable, and so strategies and weapons will only work once or twice. C) bodies must be totally obliterated or else used as reinfements. D) Psycchic Powers on some. E) Unlike the movie, they cannot blow up the enemy dimension and seal their portal. They can blow up a ship but that will nowhere near stop it. F) They don't have an eaarly warning system G) tThey rest of the bugs, such as Carnifexes and Tyrannofexes can help take down a Jaegar also.

Tau

Tau have no Titans but he Manta fills a similar role. Hence, Tau win

The only place a Jager would have any sort of cover would be a city, and what is stopping the Titan from just leveling the city.

The answer to this question is "Nothing. There is nothing stopping the Titan from leveling the city."

Jaegars, cool as they are, lack the 25, 30,000-plus years of technological development that makes them possible.

They might be faster, sure... but they lack Void Shields. That, alone, puts the fight squarely in the hands of the Titan. Nothing the Jaegar has can punch through a Void Shield. If that Plasma Cannon should get a lucky shot and knock one down? It's ok, the Titan has another. By the time the Jaegar gets another shot off? The first Void Shield is up again.

They also lack appreciable long-range weapons. Sure, they're fast, but a mega-bolter is cranking out thousands of rounds in a spray that is hundreds of meters wide. Any five of those shells is enough to tear a Jaegar apart, and with only 2 crewmen on board, you only need to score 25% casualties to render the Jaegar immobile.

The titans shoot their superior weapons at the Jeagers...


But in all seriousness. Those Jaegers won't survive long.

I think you really need to put jaegers on par with something reasonable...like the wrathknight, riptides, trygons, maybe the dreadknight.

 ductvader wrote:
I think you really need to put jaegers on par with something reasonable...like the wrathknight, riptides, trygons, maybe the dreadknight.

How is that reasonable? The jaegers, using the dimensions given from GW and from the movie, are bigger than a Warlord titan.

Jaegers are 25 stories tall. Size overkill, in my opinion.

 McNinja wrote:

 Archonate wrote:
Jaegers sucked balls.
Designed primarily for melee fighting, (when they should have been packing high caliber explosive rounds with a high rof, instead of a VERY slow charging plasma cannon) they still managed to suck abysmally at melee since all they seem to do is throw punches. No Wolverine claws, no spiked fists, drills, saws, nothing... except a sword which they are outrageously reluctant to use, no matter how badly they're getting pummeled.

Jaegers are inferior in every way. Even a small 40k titan of any race would tear one to shreds in both shooting and melee.

Well, aside from the fact that the Jaegers are entirely pointless within their own universe...

Seriously. Just mine the damn portal with nukes.

And aside from the fact that if they have the technology to make jaegers, then they should also have the technology to make remote controlled jaegers.

 AegisGrimm wrote:
Jaegers are 25 stories tall. Size overkill, in my opinion.

Won't help when a Dreadknight teleports behind them and severs a leg. then teleports away and mocks their lack of ranged weaponry.

Maybe I have been watching too many Titanfall trailers...size means nothing to me anymore...Dreadknights have the pack...wraithknights have the ranged weaponry, speed, and the punch...trygons could just come up beneath them and chew their way through the metal to the pilots Riptides...well thats a lot of ranged firepower too.

Jaegers just aren't made of tough enough stuff.

 ductvader wrote:
Maybe I have been watching too many Titanfall trailers...size means nothing to me anymore...Dreadknights have the pack...wraithknights have the ranged weaponry, speed, and the punch...trygons could just come up beneath them and chew their way through the metal to the pilots Riptides...well thats a lot of ranged firepower too.

Jaegers just aren't made of tough enough stuff.

This would be 'true' for ranged weaponry. Wraithknights for example would pick apart a kaiju, or even several. However in melee anything without the mass will be swatted aside. How many ants does it take to take down a human? A question that cant easily be answered as numbers of ants are not a sufficient force multiplier, no matter how many you have.

 Orlanth wrote:

 ductvader wrote:
Maybe I have been watching too many Titanfall trailers...size means nothing to me anymore...Dreadknights have the pack...wraithknights have the ranged weaponry, speed, and the punch...trygons could just come up beneath them and chew their way through the metal to the pilots Riptides...well thats a lot of ranged firepower too.

Jaegers just aren't made of tough enough stuff.

This would be 'true' for ranged weaponry. Wraithknights for example would pick apart a kaiju, or even several. However in melee anything without the mass will be swatted aside. How many ants does it take to take down a human? A question that cant easily be answered as numbers of ants are not a sufficient force multiplier, no matter how many you have.

Ants can destroy humans. And quickly, at that. Depending on the specie.

Let's use another insect. A bee. How many bees does it take to kill a human. One, if you're allergic.

If Alaric can take down an old school super titan with his fists and climbing skills...a Dreadknight, Trygon, or Wraithknight should have no problem.

Dreadknights punch much harder. Trygons are much faster and stealthier...and While a Wraithknight might lose in mass in is definitely made of tougher stuff...so it gets swatted and then what...blasts you from the distance it needed?

The Dreadknight might just teleport on top of the Jager and decapitate it. Or put a heavy psycannon round through it.

The Jaegers having so little shooting would probably find it difficult to smash such small and deadly opponents.

Imagine yourself trying to fight off a ripper with a revolver.

The Jaegers are just steel and titanium. They really didnt seem to have any armor at all. They are powered by diseil generators or at best a nuclear reactor(not really a good idea given power density/wieght). They have pitiful ranged weapons. Other than a plasma cannon, which didnt even seem to be that powerful against flesh, the Jaegers have pitiful CC weapons. Ooo a sword!

40k titans are built out of sophisticated alloys. They have energy shields as well as massively thick armor plates. They are powered by unknown powerful energy sources. They have fearsome range weapons capable of turning a jaeger to slag from many miles away. They have fearsome CC weapons capable of cutting a jaeger(or any unsheilded metal) in half with ease.


It's 38,000 years of advanced technology and a totally different economy of scale. Entire planet sized factories build Titans sourcing materials from across the galaxy. Jaegers were built buy countries, souring from regions of a country.

Eldar Titans would be ridiculous. Faster, Stronger, Tougher, Smarter...

I loved pasific rim but the Jaegars where still no EVAs.
I also think the larger titans would out shoot the jaegar as they are war manchines designed as giant weapons platforms with 40,000 years of tech behind them, the Jaegar are designed to swing makeshift baseball bats into giant monsters faces for epic lols! In that respect they win a fight all of there own! But yeah if you take this 'seriously' cant you see how butt hurt a jaegar would be by an elder titan, it would be comic.


on a different note....

 McNinja wrote:
Well, aside from the fact that the Jaegers are entirely pointless within their own universe...

Seriously. Just mine the damn portal with nukes.

....how would that be any kind of good idea?

It's a simple fact that nothing from other genres can kill a titan on a 40K fan-forum. They have too much fluff armor.

That's not necessarily true...Wolverine or Magneto could kill a Titan...or the newest incarnations of Jedi where the force has unlimited energy. Thor or the Hulk could probably also do it. The Shrike could do it too.

But Titans will almost always win the this robot versus that robot argument because we've never seen a universe that created that had even larger scale things than 40k.

If in Titanicus a Chaos Warhound can cripple a Warlord in melee combat with just a pair of metal tusks, than any other genre's robot of the same size (or bigger- Jaegers are at least the size of a Reaver) can do so, too.